Pattaya Bar/Go-Go Death Watch

[webfact]

Kushner hopes Israel will look at peace plan before any West Bank moves

By Steve Holland and David Alexander

 

White House senior adviser Jared Kushner, U.S. President Donald Trump's son-in-law, speaks during a discussion on "Inside the Trump Administration's Middle East Peace Effort" at a dinner symposium of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP) in Washington, U.S., May 2, 2019. REUTERS/Yuri Gripas

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - White House senior adviser Jared Kushner said on Thursday he hopes Israel will take a hard look at President Donald Trump's upcoming Middle East peace proposal before proceeding with any plan to annex West Bank settlements.

 

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had vowed in the waning days of a re-election campaign he won on April 9 to annex Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank, in a move that would be bound to trigger condemnation from the Palestinians and the Arab world and complicate the U.S. peace effort.

 

Kushner, speaking at a dinner of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, said the Middle East peace proposal he has been putting together was close to release and that Israel and the Palestinians should wait to see it before making any unilateral moves.

 

He said the issue would be discussed with the Israeli government when Netanyahu forms a governing coalition.

 

"I hope both sides will take a real look at it, the Israeli side and the Palestinian side, before any unilateral steps are made," Kushner said, adding he had not discussed the issue of settlement annexation with Netanyahu.

 

Kushner and Middle East envoy Jason Greenblatt have spent the past two years developing the peace proposal in the hopes it will provide a framework for a renewed dialogue between the Israelis and Palestinians.

 

The Palestinians have refused to talk to the U.S. side since Trump decided to move the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem and declare Jerusalem the capital of Israel.

 

The Palestinians want to establish a state in the West Bank, east Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip, all territory Israel captured in 1967.

 

Kushner, who is married to Trump's daughter Ivanka, is expected to unveil his proposals in June after the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan.

 

"What we will be able to put together is a solution that we believe is a good starting point for the political issues and then an outline for what can be done to help these people start living a better life," Kushner said.

 

"I was given the assignment of trying to find a solution between the two sides and I think what we'll put forward is a framework that I think is realistic ... it's executable and it's something that I do think will lead to both sides being much better off," Kushner said.

 

POLITICAL, ECONOMIC COMPONENTS

Kushner has begun to take a more public role in the Trump administration since he emerged unscathed from U.S. Special Counsel Robert Mueller's probe into whether the Trump presidential campaign in 2016 colluded with Russia.

 

Trump has relied heavily on the 38-year-old Kushner, who helped develop prison reform legislation and a new U.S.-Mexico-Canada trade deal, and is also working on a U.S. immigration proposal.

 

The Middle East proposal, which has been delayed for a variety of reasons over the past 18 months, has two major components. It has a political piece that addresses core issues such as the status of Jerusalem, and an economic part that aims to help the Palestinians strengthen their economy.

 

Kushner has said the proposal is not an effort to impose U.S. will on the region. He has not said whether it calls for a two-state solution, a goal of past peace efforts.

 

On Thursday night, he called on critics to hold their fire until they are able to see the plan in its entirety.

 

Palestinians have voiced skepticism about the effort led by Trump's son-in-law, who was a real estate developer before joining his father-in-law as a senior White House adviser.

 

Arab officials and analysts believe the plan is likely to be decidedly pro-Israel since the Trump administration has taken a tough line towards Palestinians, cutting off aid and ordering the PLO's office in Washington shut.

 

Greenblatt has said U.S. negotiators expect Israelis and Palestinians will both be critical of some parts of the plan.

 

(Reporting by Steve Holland and David Alexander; Editing by Rosalba O'Brien and Peter Cooney)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-05-03

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[Jingthing]

Junior's book report on the Israel Palestinian conflict is ready. I feel a participation trophy coming on.

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[candide]

Netanyahu will read it before proceeding with annexion. ????

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, candide said:

Netanyahu will read it before proceeding with annexion. ????

Bibi has to know that he's never going to have an American president friendlier than the current one to such an outrage. So if he wants to do that, the timing will never be better. I'm not really sure Bibi really wants to actually do that though, but his coalition partners to the right do. 

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Kushner, who helped develop prison reform legislation

• Lawmakers have wrangled for five years over criminal-justice reform, but after months of recalcitrance, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell allowed a floor vote on Congress’ latest effort, the First Step Act.
• First Step Act might be the strangest piece of legislation in the Trump era. It’s both groundbreaking and meager, both heartening and disappointing—a long-overdue retreat from decades of inhumane policy, but also an insufficiently small step toward a more conscientious approach to crime and punishment. https://newrepublic.com/article/152647/criminal-justice-reform-bill-historic-disappointing

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

"I hope both sides will take a real look at it, the Israeli side and the Palestinian side, before any unilateral steps are made,"

Before any unilateral steps are made?

Kushner's peace plan is the result of unilateral US steps made in the absence of any Palestinian involvement and likely very consistent with Trump's other unilateral pro-Israel policies.

[1Gringo]

the unqualified advising the unwilling.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, 1Gringo said:

the unqualified advising the unwilling.

Yes, and the only positive thing I can say about it is that nothing else has ever really worked. So assuming the Kushner thing joins that group perhaps next time go even sillier, perhaps a toddler summit? 

[Jingthing]

17 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Before any unilateral steps are made?

Kushner's peace plan is the result of unilateral US steps made in the absence of any Palestinian involvement and likely very consistent with Trump's other unilateral pro-Israel policies.

Yes, it's entirely insulting to the Palestinians and the Israelis have to be thinking, these Americans are even dumber than we thought. What pablum talk can we say to make this go away.

 

Kushner is meeting a deliverable. A report. Not a result. I reckon not a coincidence that it's being delivered nowhere close to an election. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Jingthing

[metisdead]

An offensive troll post has been removed. 

[Jingthing]

Indeed. Mr. Netanyahu knows this well. He is a right wing nutter, who doesn't really care of anyone else, but his own personal power. That is what is so dangerous about him. He is selfish, narcissistic person like Trump, his wingman who takes every advantage of Trump as he wishes. 

 

Netanyahu is going to do whatever it takes to gain more power to him. Kill lot's of people, including children, is perfectly fine for him.

 

Please stop calling him Bibi. That nickname is meant to make him a humane, 'lad like us'. He is not a 'lad like us'. He is a killer. By his politics he is a murderer.

 

Israel could be a thriving country, a gateway to the middle east which actually understands how the Arab world functions, but it isn't due bad politics in the past and today. I hope that one day Israels figures out how to play with other kids in the playground.

 

If you can't play with neighbours's kids, then perhaps there is a time to look at the mirror and wonder, why is that?

Israel is a thriving country already but obviously with flaws and problems.

I see your point but I like calling him Bibi.

I don't buy into the narrative that Israel is solely to blame for the conflict.

The roots go way back when most of the middle east attacked tiny Israel upon her legal foundation in 1948.

You can't blame Israel for focusing on security after that. It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.

As I said I'm not fully sure Bibi wants to annex. That may have been a line to help him win that recent very challenging election for him. He is right wing for sure but there are factions to the right of him. Parliamentary politics.

 

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[Jingthing]

Yeah conflate the right wing government of Israel with Jews in general. That's really helpful.

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[Morch]

3 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Before any unilateral steps are made?

Kushner's peace plan is the result of unilateral US steps made in the absence of any Palestinian involvement and likely very consistent with Trump's other unilateral pro-Israel policies.

 

The "result of"? Hardly. While there were such "unilateral US steps", the Trump administration peace initiative preceded them. Whether taking these steps was related to setting up the so-called peace plan is a good question. Regardless, they obviously effected events, positions and perceptions all around. The "absence of any Palestinian involvement" is, for the most part, a Palestinian choice.

[Morch]

30 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Was this ment to address me?

 

I do. I do say why Israel and it's hard line politics has never been popular outside of the USA. We don't accept that kind of behaviour on the rest of the world. We simply don't. 

 

 

 

It's not a popularity contest. And that "rest of the world" royal "we" is nonsense. Don't let facts confuse you, though.

 

[Dumbastheycome]

54 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah conflate the right wing government of Israel with Jews in general. That's really helpful.

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Once  again  you deflect  with an opinion that opinion is against  Jews  rather than the ideology of the Israeli Govt.

Why?

The world understands  that there is a  huge difference you  seem to refuse to acknowledge.

 

[Morch]

 

When the new peace initiative was announced, Kushner (and others) were way more confident about their ability to sort things out. In time, and as they got to know the ropes, statements and prospects were more cautious. The current offering already portrays the plan as a "good starting point" for politics, and a bit more than that on the related economics. Not quite as sexy as the "Deal of the Century", but what can you do.

 

As to Kushner saying he had not discussed the issue of settlement annexation with Netanyahu, the latter claimed it was discussed with Trump's administration. Either or both could be telling porkies, and of course, what form such a discussion takes and what it includes is unknown. I find it hard to believe things were not discussed, and therefore, read Kushner's statement as a clumsy plea or reminder.

 

If it was solely up to Netanyahu, the annexation issue wouldn't make it to the table. Other than dabbling in favorable statements utilized to address specific political hurdles, he effectively blocked or neutered most serious legislation efforts by others. Given his current political situation and legal issues, the leverage held by future coalition partners might increase.

 

And another observation. The Trump administration will delay revealing the plan until after Netanyahu forms his new government. Putting aside whether this was appropriate and whom did it serve, the point is having a legitimate representative for negotiations. At the same time, there's no such expectation when it comes to the Palestinian side. Assuming this was a serious effort, who legitimately represents the Palestinians?

[Jingthing]

Once  again  you deflect  with an opinion that opinion is against  Jews  rather than the ideology of the Israeli Govt.
Why?
The world understands  that there is a  huge difference you  seem to refuse to acknowledge.
 

Incorrect. I was replying to another member who in my opinion rather obnoxiously conflated Israeli government policies with Jews in general. Pay closer attention before you strike out.

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[Morch]

27 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Most of the world really, really dislikes Israel as a agressive and war wishing nation. It is really not a popularity contest. It is normal life talk, with whom we want to play with. 

 

Nothing confusing about that. 

 

I doubt you speak for "most of the world", or that your take on Israel's foreign and economic relations is based on anything much. Most of them countries posters come from play with Israel.

[Dumbastheycome]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Incorrect. I was replying to another member who in my opinion rather obnoxiously conflated Israeli government policies with Jews in general. Pay closer attention before you strike out.

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Not so. Your "opinion" is quite clearly  obfuscated .

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Not so. Your "opinion" is quite clearly  obfuscated .

As far as I'm concerned you are attacking me for something I didn't do. So nothing more to say as there is no value in dignifying this ridiculousness further.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Jingthing

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I really mean most of the world dislike Israel. We see Israel as war seaking country, which has not offered a way to peace. Ugly country in our books.

 

Figure out how to make peace with your neighbours and we'll like what you can represent. Now, no.

 

And again, you do not speak for "the world", and not even for "most of the world".

There is no "we", and no "our".

Your opinions, ridiculous as they are, are your own.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I'm actually quite curious if you, well read person, don't see how the rest of the world sees the current state of Israel?

 

I can't see any other country, but USA being in favour of what Israel has let her to become. Israel is a country of war. The youth of Israel has been doctrined to become soldiers. That's not way to cultivate a country and it's culture. 

 

The rest of us, 95% of us 7 billion people do not teach our children to become soldiers. We teach our children to become scientists, doctors etc. We teach our children to become the better future of our societies, not machines to kill. 

 

There's a wide gap between the wholesale condemnation and demonization you offer, and how things fare in reality. Many countries disagree or reject Israel's policies, without it grossly effecting bilateral relations. And again, you do not speak for any "rest of us", no "95%" etc.

 

 

 

[Dumbastheycome]

Just now, Jingthing said:

As far as I'm concerned you are attacking me for something I didn't do. So nothing more to say as there is no value in dignifying ridiculousness further.

And once  again you resort  to personal attack as a sad defence in retaliation for  what  may just be  an honest evaluation of your mindset.

It is  my opinion that the Israeli Govt. in concordance  with  US  foreign policy and thus a determination to consolidate  an enclave of influence to control the  Middle East involves  denial of humanitarian concern  in favour  of .

Given that the Israeli Govt. is  not exclusively  Jewish  actually justifiably excuses  me from any   accusations  of....?

Israel's  politics are demonstrating the  familiar signs  of guided autocracy.

It will  fail  along  with the  guide.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Dumbastheycome said:

And once  again you resort  to personal attack as a sad defence in retaliation for  what  may just be  an honest evaluation of your mindset.

It is  my opinion that the Israeli Govt. in concordance  with  US  foreign policy and thus a determination to consolidate  an enclave of influence to control the  Middle East involves  denial of humanitarian concern  in favour  of .

Given that the Israeli Govt. is  not exclusively  Jewish  actually justifiably excuses  me from any   accusations  of....?

Israel's  politics are demonstrating the  familiar signs  of guided autocracy.

It will  fail  along  with the  guide.

Again, you clearly MISREAD my post! 

[Dumbastheycome]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

There's a wide gap between the wholesale condemnation and demonization you offer, and how things fare in reality. Many countries disagree or reject Israel's policies, without it grossly effecting bilateral relations. And again, you do not speak for any "rest of us", no "95%" etc.

 

 

 

Interestingly  you   quote "bilateral".

Multilateral?

[Dumbastheycome]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Again, you clearly MISREAD my post! 

No.

[Jingthing]

Just now, Dumbastheycome said:

No.

This is productive. 

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I do can speak with the word of we, the world and the most of the world. 

 

Most of us don't live our lives expecting war to happen. You do, unfortunately.

 

Figure out, how to solve the problem and stop asking alms from the USA to keep on going. That's your baseline problem.

 

You can do as you like, I'm just pointing out it's meaningless, and not backed by anything much other than by your opinionated views. Again, let me alert you to the fact that many people, in many areas of the world actually do live their lives expecting "war to happen" (or close enough). 

 

[Dumbastheycome]

Just now, Jingthing said:

This is productive. 

Not  for me. But  perhaps  the  denial of  any  further  material  gives you  cause  to  consider may be a chance to  consider  opinion  outside  of  your  strange  defensive  mindset.

 

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Interestingly  you   quote "bilateral".

Multilateral?

 

Bilateral. As in relations between Israel and a given country.