Volunteering

[eisfeld]

11 minutes ago, wombat said:

'What can be done to change this?'.....their country their rules.
 

 

But to who should I pass those three pieces of plastic on? I'm confused.

[dotpoom]

20 hours ago, MRToMRT said:

I dont think you need a work permit if you want to go outside and collect/clean up trash?

Exactly....and...of all the reasons one might want to go abroad to do voluntery work...picking up that country's trash wouldn't immediately spring to mind?

[Leaver]

59 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

Correct. The technicality is you could be doing a Thai persona out of a paid job so you can't work for free. Theoretically, that includes hanging a picture on your wall in your home, or mowing your own lawns.

I remember having this discussion a while ago.  A friend was painting his house.  I joked about the work permit.  He argued that he didn't need one.  I argued that he did need one. 

 

He said, "But it's my house."

 

I said, "Can you build yourself a house here without a work permit?"

 

He said, "No." 

 

I said, "Isn't painting part of construction work?"

 

He said, "Oh."

 

     ????

 

He got on well with his neighbors, and was discrete about it, but as you say, he was working illegally. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Leaver

[connda]

Welcome to Thailand.

[pogal]

Last year a new labor law said that people here legally under existing work permits can volunteer without amending their work permit that was required in the past. 

apart from that I have no other knowledge about other amendments but believe there were others. It should be on a thread here somewhere...

[Suradit69]

21 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Actually, many things Thais insist upon defy logic...????

Just because you don't like or understand something doesn't make it illogical. Typical farang arrogance.

 

Following the tsunami there were very few restrictions on volunteers and that contributed to a lack of coordination and communication that created chaos beyond what might otherwise be expected.

 

 While picking up trash on the beach may not hurt employment of Thais, many well-intended volunteer activities would deprive Thais of potential income.

 

i worked with an international charitable organization in southern  Africa. Whenever we heard some do-gooder volunteers were coming to "help "it was regarded with dread rather than gratitude.

 

 

 

 

[seancbk]

30 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I remember having this discussion a while ago.  A friend was painting his house.  I joked about the work permit.  He argued that he didn't need one.  I argued that he did need one. 

 

He said, "But it's my house."

 

I said, "Can you build yourself a house here without a work permit?"

 

He said, "No." 

 

I said, "Isn't painting part of construction work?"

 

He said, "Oh."

 

     ????

 

He got on well with his neighbors, and was discrete about it, but as you say, he was working illegally. 

 

 

On day stories about people getting into trouble for 'working' on their own homes will finally stop.  

You can do what you want on and in your own property, otherwise cooking yourself food would be illegal, doing housework would be illegal, driving your own car would be illegal. 

 

[Leaver]

14 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

Just because you don't like or understand something doesn't make it illogical. Typical farang arrogance.

 

Following the tsunami there were very few restrictions on volunteers and that contributed to a lack of coordination and communication that created chaos beyond what might otherwise be expected.

 

 While picking up trash on the beach may not hurt employment of Thais, many well-intended volunteer activities would deprive Thais of potential income.

 

i worked with an international charitable organization in southern  Africa. Whenever we heard some do-gooder volunteers were coming to "help "it was regarded with dread rather than gratitude.

 

 

 

 

This article would tend to your post quite inaccurate.

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/phuket/Tsunami-volunteers-warned-work-permits

[Leaver]

2 minutes ago, seancbk said:

 

 

On day stories about people getting into trouble for 'working' on their own homes will finally stop.  

You can do what you want on and in your own property, otherwise cooking yourself food would be illegal, doing housework would be illegal, driving your own car would be illegal. 

 

Ok, go and build yourself an extension and see how you go.  ????

[Puchaiyank]

Just because you don't like or understand something doesn't make it illogical. Typical farang arrogance.

 

Case in point...GF took son to open bank account...Thai pic ID in hand...could not open...did not bring birth certificate...even though the birth certificate was needed to get the ID card and was firmly visible on the pic ID...

 

To me, that is an illogical request and exactly what I am referring to... 

[balo]

I clean the beaches weekly , been doing it for 6 years ,  bring trash bags and gloves. Never been asked for a work permit to do that .

I think the OP is over-exaggerating. 

 

Maybe OP is hoping for an easy access to a 1 year visa cleaning up beaches. 

[Burma Bill]

As a volunteer with the Thai Tourist Police, I do NOT NEED a work permit. There is official exemption for this type of work so, helping a local authority cleaning up rubbish may have the same exemption.

[KC 71]

Do they provide free elephant pants and a man bun ?


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[geoff65]

what would be( or what is) the difference in being a charity worker and volunteer worker in Thailand regarding visas? would they come under the same?

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

This article would tend to your post quite inaccurate.

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/phuket/Tsunami-volunteers-warned-work-permits

That was considerable time afterwards, and nobody got arrested.

[Leaver]

28 minutes ago, stevenl said:

That was considerable time afterwards, and nobody got arrested.

I can only go on what was said in the article, which I think to many volunteers after the tsunami, would have been quite insulting. 

[Mukdahanman]

I plan on teaching English (as an unpaid assistant) in various local schools purely to pass the time - should I be worried that I don’t have a WP?

[Mavideol]

1 minute ago, Mukdahanman said:

I plan on teaching English (as an unpaid assistant) in various local schools purely to pass the time - should I be worried that I don’t have a WP?

in order to be able to work even if not receiving salary (unpaid assistant) you need WP

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, Mukdahanman said:

I plan on teaching English (as an unpaid assistant) in various local schools purely to pass the time - should I be worried that I don’t have a WP?

You will need a work permit, otherwise, you could be arrested and deported. 

[SS1]

6 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

in order to be able to work even if not receiving salary (unpaid assistant) you need WP

 

4 minutes ago, Leaver said:

You will need a work permit, otherwise, you could be arrested and deported. 

Not correct. This used to be the law but it has been amended a few months ago. Unpaid volunteering and interning is no longer considered work and does not require a WP. I'm repeating these words from the mouth of the director of foreign employee division from the ministry of labour. 

[Mukdahanman]

3 minutes ago, Leaver said:

You will need a work permit, otherwise, you could be arrested and deported. 

 

3 minutes ago, Leaver said:

You will need a work permit, otherwise, you could be arrested and deported. 

And there’s the rub. I totally agree with the OP. The local schools are desperate for me to pop in and get advice from someone who is actually from England about the English language,  it if I do this altruistic act I am liable to deportation. Can’t this country learn to help itself a little more?

[Mukdahanman]

26 minutes ago, SS1 said:

 

Not correct. This used to be the law but it has been amended a few months ago. Unpaid volunteering and interning is no longer considered work and does not require a WP. I'm repeating these words from the mouth of the director of foreign employee division from the ministry of labour. 

Thanks, perhaps sanity is creeping in, albeit painfully slowly ????

[Leaver]

35 minutes ago, SS1 said:

 

Not correct. This used to be the law but it has been amended a few months ago. Unpaid volunteering and interning is no longer considered work and does not require a WP. I'm repeating these words from the mouth of the director of foreign employee division from the ministry of labour. 

So, just like that, every English teacher in Thailand does not need a work permit. (cash in hand payments by the school - no records)  Really? 

 

What about the boyfriend that volunteers in his girlfriend's bar, serving drinks?  Really? 

[Peterw42]

2 hours ago, geoff65 said:

what would be( or what is) the difference in being a charity worker and volunteer worker in Thailand regarding visas? would they come under the same?

Charity workers work/volunteer for registered charities/NGOs, the charity gets you a WP.

[Peterw42]

You cannot just volunteer to do what you choose, teach English, clean the beach etc. Usually, volunteering is done through registered charities, NGOs, foundations.

If its a registered foundation to save an endangered fruit bat, then you can volunteer with that organisation to save fruit bats.

The organisation will get you a volunteer visa, WP etc.

 

Maybe they are not so strict on WP nowadays but theoretically you are supposed to be on a volunteer visa and with a registered charity, foundation etc. Otherwise, why have a volunteer visa     ?

 

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Peterw42

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, SS1 said:

 

Not correct. This used to be the law but it has been amended a few months ago. Unpaid volunteering and interning is no longer considered work and does not require a WP. I'm repeating these words from the mouth of the director of foreign employee division from the ministry of labour. 

Even if what you say is true.

Imagine you are working unpaid as english teacher assistent.

Immigration police come to the school because they want to check if everything is in order.

They find you teaching english, so they demand to see the work permit. You say you were just volunteering... can you prove that you didn't get paid? Don't forget, this is Thailand, not a first world country. They assume you have been working illegally, you can't prove that you haven't, so you will be arrested and spend a while in jail / IDC.

If you are lucky it's just a few days before you have your court hearing.

Immigration police tells the judge that they found you teaching english in a school and you don't have a work permit. You tell the judge that you don't get paid for it, so does the school director, but of course you guys say this, even if you had been paid. You have no way to "prove" that you didn't get paid.

If the judge decides that you were probably working you might be banned from Thailand. You want to take your chances on it?

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, SS1 said:

 

Not correct. This used to be the law but it has been amended a few months ago. Unpaid volunteering and interning is no longer considered work and does not require a WP. I'm repeating these words from the mouth of the director of foreign employee division from the ministry of labour. 

You may not need a WP but theoretically volunteering is supposed to be done for a registered charity, foundation etc. So its not a free reign on volunteering for what you think is a good cause.

[Leaver]

31 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Even if what you say is true.

Imagine you are working unpaid as english teacher assistent.

Immigration police come to the school because they want to check if everything is in order.

They find you teaching english, so they demand to see the work permit. You say you were just volunteering... can you prove that you didn't get paid? Don't forget, this is Thailand, not a first world country. They assume you have been working illegally, you can't prove that you haven't, so you will be arrested and spend a while in jail / IDC.

If you are lucky it's just a few days before you have your court hearing.

Immigration police tells the judge that they found you teaching english in a school and you don't have a work permit. You tell the judge that you don't get paid for it, so does the school director, but of course you guys say this, even if you had been paid. You have no way to "prove" that you didn't get paid.

If the judge decides that you were probably working you might be banned from Thailand. You want to take your chances on it?

Your post is a good description of how, and what would happen. 

[overherebc]

On 5/5/2019 at 6:27 PM, elviajero said:

You technically and actually don't as long as you are not volunteering for an official NGO type organisation.

 

Helping with a local beach or street clean up organised by locals does not require (it's not available) a work permit. 

To be honest anyone who goes to any other country with the idea of cleaning the place and collecting rubbish on the beach needs a slap on the back of the head and sent home to sort out their own country's problems first.

Why?

Because the locals think they are stupid and obviously so do I.

Edited May 6, 2019 by overherebc

[SS1]

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

So, just like that, every English teacher in Thailand does not need a work permit. (cash in hand payments by the school - no records)  Really? 

 

What about the boyfriend that volunteers in his girlfriend's bar, serving drinks?  Really? 

What you are describing is a clear example of illegal working - hardly anything to do with actual volunteering. 
 

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

Even if what you say is true.

Imagine you are working unpaid as english teacher assistent.

Immigration police come to the school because they want to check if everything is in order.

They find you teaching english, so they demand to see the work permit. You say you were just volunteering... can you prove that you didn't get paid? Don't forget, this is Thailand, not a first world country. They assume you have been working illegally, you can't prove that you haven't, so you will be arrested and spend a while in jail / IDC.

If you are lucky it's just a few days before you have your court hearing.

Immigration police tells the judge that they found you teaching english in a school and you don't have a work permit. You tell the judge that you don't get paid for it, so does the school director, but of course you guys say this, even if you had been paid. You have no way to "prove" that you didn't get paid.

If the judge decides that you were probably working you might be banned from Thailand. You want to take your chances on it?

Well, this is certainly right! enforcement and the law could be quite different at the end, TiT after all. I would not consider such a scenario unlikely at all. When I was at the seminar with the labour dept. the director actually used the example of farangs on holiday teaching English to kids for fun. She said they realised, it would be pointless to prohibit such activity as it is good for Thais and Thailand. Everyone in the room was joking that wouldn't just everyone say that "I'm a volunteer" if caught working illegally? The officials had no comment for that... 

But say such case would actually go to court, it wouldn't be too hard to see who is an actual volunteer on a 2-week holiday teaching kids with some charitable organisation, vs. a classic English teacher who's lived here for 5 years and getting regular payments for working illegally at a school.