Volunteering

[Peterw42]

9 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

Just wondering, have you any exact occasions where you have heard of people having this done to help them in this manner, because I have not. In fact to the contrary. I refuse to help in schools although I would love to.  I have had offers and the offers usually include money but I always feel it necessary to say no.

There is a specific non-O volunteer visa and one of the requirements to get one is a letter from the charity, NGO etc you will be volunteering for.

 

Maybe the private language school on the corner is offering a position but proper School Teachers in thailand need a license and registration and the appropriate Visa, If a proper Government school is offering a position without a license and registration, doing volunteer teaching, then I imagine they may be authorised to do so. 

Get them to write you a letter, take it to immigration and get a volunteer visa.

 

 

[elviajero]

26 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

Just wondering, have you any exact occasions where you have heard of people having this done to help them in this manner, because I have not. In fact to the contrary. I refuse to help in schools although I would love to.  I have had offers and the offers usually include money but I always feel it necessary to say no.

Volunteering in a school would almost certainly be regarded as work and require a work permit, unless it was very occasional or a one off.

[Peterw42]

7 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Volunteering in a school would almost certainly be regarded as work and require a work permit, unless it was very occasional or a one off.

And I imagine, if at all possible, you would also need a teacher license/registration etc, and a visa that lets you work/volunteer.

 

The fact that there is a volunteer visa, would by definition mean that you cant volunteer on other visa's, wouldn't it ?

Edited May 7, 2019 by Peterw42

[The Deerhunter]

1 minute ago, elviajero said:

Volunteering in a school would almost certainly be regarded as work and require a work permit, unless it was very occasional or a one off.

All just added up to be one of the many reasons that my Thai wife and I are returning to live in the other country that we call home, next month. Thai-ed out,  I guess you could say. Nothing really big,  just lots of small dissatisfactions with living here, that added up.

[Peterw42]

49 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

Just wondering, have you any exact occasions where you have heard of people having this done to help them in this manner, because I have not. In fact to the contrary. I refuse to help in schools although I would love to.  I have had offers and the offers usually include money but I always feel it necessary to say no.

Have a look at the site below, a foundation that you can volunteer through/for to teach in Thailand. 

 

https://www.volunteerthailand.org/projects/volunteer-to-teach-english/

[jacko45k]

19 hours ago, overherebc said:

I use the scaremongering gambit at home.

Sorry darling, can't mow the lawn, no work permit. ????

Heat exhaustion taught me to stop doing that!

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

I have been living here for a number of years and to the best of my knowledge this is not scaremongering at all.

You seem to have posted a long winded agreement to exactly what I said!

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

You contradict yourself.

No, there is no regulation whatsoever stopping a person 'hanging a picture' in his own property. As stated in the post I responded to. I added the caveat that if for eg, a foreigner is spotted putting a roof on a house, even his own property, the local builder can make a complaint, that the local police might well go along with.

 

Things are never so black and white in Thailand.  

 

 

[elviajero]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

No, there is no regulation whatsoever stopping a person 'hanging a picture' in his own property. As stated in the post I responded to. I added the caveat that if for eg, a foreigner is spotted putting a roof on a house, even his own property, the local builder can make a complaint, that the local police might well go along with.

 

Things are never so black and white in Thailand.  

There is also no law stopping a person putting a roof on their own property regardless of who complains.

 

The law clearly states you cannot be employed (paid or unpaid) or carry out any occupation without permission (usually a work permit).

[Preacher]

Volunteers teachers are exempt fromt the requirement to have a teaching license by official ruling of the teachers council. ( The teachers council has by law the power to exempt certian groups for the need to have a license).

 

Volunteers for government schools cannot get an extension of stay based on volunteering as extension of stay for volunteers is only for those that volunteer for non-government entities. They can however can get an extension of stay as a teacher as there is no minimum income requirement, but than would need a waiver or license.

 

[The Deerhunter]

7 hours ago, jacko45k said:

No, there is no regulation whatsoever stopping a person 'hanging a picture' in his own property. As stated in the post I responded to. I added the caveat that if for eg, a foreigner is spotted putting a roof on a house, even his own property, the local builder can make a complaint, that the local police might well go along with.

 

Things are never so black and white in Thailand.  

 

 

Also as stated in my post.  It is black and white but enforcement depends on region and who you sre connected to.

Edited May 8, 2019 by The Deerhunter

[Leaver]

5 hours ago, elviajero said:

There is also no law stopping a person putting a roof on their own property regardless of who complains.

 

The law clearly states you cannot be employed (paid or unpaid) or carry out any occupation without permission (usually a work permit).

Where your argument falls down is the foreign owner of a house doing construction work, and then sells the house.  Then, goes on to do this several times, as an occupation.

 

It's my understanding that property ownership does not grant permission for a foreigner to do an occupation reserved for Thai's. 

 

Basically, you can't hide behind a land title, to work.  

[Leaver]

11 hours ago, jacko45k said:

No, there is no regulation whatsoever stopping a person 'hanging a picture' in his own property. As stated in the post I responded to. I added the caveat that if for eg, a foreigner is spotted putting a roof on a house, even his own property, the local builder can make a complaint, that the local police might well go along with.

 

Things are never so black and white in Thailand.  

 

 

So, the roof plumber can complain to police, but the picture hanger can't.  Really? 

 

Can you tell me what a foreigner is allowed to do, and not allowed to do, to their own property?

 

Electrical work?  Plumbing?  Concreting?  Painting?  Carpentry?  Tiling? 

[elviajero]

8 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Where your argument falls down is the foreign owner of a house doing construction work, and then sells the house.  Then, goes on to do this several times, as an occupation.

You're describing an occupation, not a home owner doing work on their home.

 

8 minutes ago, Leaver said:

It's my understanding that property ownership does not grant permission for a foreigner to do an occupation reserved for Thai's. 

 

Basically, you can't hide behind a land title, to work.  

DIY on your own home is not an occupation. 

[Leaver]

11 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You're describing an occupation, not a home owner doing work on their home.

 

DIY on your own home is not an occupation. 

How would you prove you are fixing your home, not fixing your home to sell? 

[elviajero]

4 minutes ago, Leaver said:

How would you prove you are fixing your home, not fixing your home to sell? 

You don’t have to prove anything.

 

They have to prove you are carrying out an occupation or being employed by a third party in order to prosecute.

[Leaver]

25 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You're describing an occupation, not a home owner doing work on their home.

 

DIY on your own home is not an occupation. 

 

Boats, houses.  Same Same. 

[Leaver]

26 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You don’t have to prove anything.

 

They have to prove you are carrying out an occupation or being employed by a third party in order to prosecute.

I remember a debate on TV about people owning a few condos, and enting them out.

 

The owner's arguments were, I own them, I can do what I want with them.

 

Others were saying, you are working in the real estate industry with out a work permit. 

 

What's your opinion on this.  Work permit needed, or not. 

 

I ask this, because I seem to remember a few posters saying they were "just looking after the property for a friend while he was out of Thailand."  (volunteering) 

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

I remember a debate on TV about people owning a few condos, and enting them out.

 

The owner's arguments were, I own them, I can do what I want with them.

 

Others were saying, you are working in the real estate industry with out a work permit. 

 

What's your opinion on this.  Work permit needed, or not. 

 

I ask this, because I seem to remember a few posters saying they were "just looking after the property for a friend while he was out of Thailand."  (volunteering) 

You do not need a work permit to rent out a property through an agent that handles everything.

 

You do need a work permit if you have any involvement in renting out your own property.

 

You do need a work permit to look after (manage) a let property for a friend.

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Boats, houses.  Same Same. 

Houses (a home) and boats are nothing like the same.

 

Unless these boat builders were doing it commercially, and that could be proven, there is no way they the could be prosecuted in a court under the Immigration act or the Employment act.

[jacko45k]

23 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

Also as stated in my post.  It is black and white but enforcement depends on region and who you sre connected to.

So it's a gray area. 

There is no regulation preventing you working on your own property.

[jacko45k]

19 hours ago, Leaver said:

So, the roof plumber can complain to police, but the picture hanger can't.  Really? 

 

Can you tell me what a foreigner is allowed to do, and not allowed to do, to their own property?

 

Electrical work?  Plumbing?  Concreting?  Painting?  Carpentry?  Tiling? 

Yes, providing it isn't employment. 

[The Deerhunter]

On 5/9/2019 at 2:13 PM, jacko45k said:

Yes, providing it isn't employment. 

I believe the main point is that traditionally (well until last year in some parts of Thailand,  ((Other parts will carry on applying the old or their own rules, as always))) the issue is not whether you used it as employment: 

But if the government official decided that your doing-so, potentially deprived a Thai from having employment, full, or part time if even just for that one time-date-event.  

 

In many parts of Thailand you would be able to get away with mowing your own lawns or hanging your own pictures.

 

But not everywhere, especially if you have pi**ed off someone who knows the real laws or works in public service somewhere.

[Leaver]

On 5/9/2019 at 5:13 PM, jacko45k said:

Yes, providing it isn't employment. 

And if you do this work to your own house, and sell it shortly after, and then buy another house, and do the same, according to you, no problem. 

 

So what's stopping a foreigner building his own house? 

[Leaver]

2 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

I believe the main point is that traditionally (well until last year in some parts of Thailand,  ((Other parts will carry on applying the old or their own rules, as always))) the issue is not whether you used it as employment: 

But if the government official decided that your doing-so, potentially deprived a Thai from having employment, full, or part time if even just for that one time-date-event.  

 

In many parts of Thailand you would be able to get away with mowing your own lawns or hanging your own pictures.

 

But not everywhere, especially if you have pi**ed off someone who knows the real laws or works in public service somewhere.

Exactly.

 

It's not solely about whether or not the foreigner is deriving an income from work, it also goes to whether the foreigner should have provided the employment of doing such things to a Thai.

 

As crazy as it is, the way the laws are, you are not supposed to do anything yourself here.  You must pay a Thai to do it for you. 

[Leaver]

On 5/9/2019 at 1:47 AM, elviajero said:

Houses (a home) and boats are nothing like the same.

 

Unless these boat builders were doing it commercially, and that could be proven, there is no way they the could be prosecuted in a court under the Immigration act or the Employment act.

I believe their boats were confiscated, and they were arrested, fined, and deported.  Building their own boat, for their own use, but I believe authorities argued the boats were being built to be sold for a profit.  Now, does that sound familiar to renovating a house?  ????

 

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by Leaver

[elviajero]

25 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I believe their boats were confiscated, and they were arrested, fined, and deported.  Building their own boat, for their own use, but I believe authorities argued the boats were being built to be sold for a profit.  Now, does that sound familiar to renovating a house?  ????

Where is the news report confirming their fines and deportations? If they were being built to be sold then they were "working".

 

No, it's not similar in the slightest. We are talking about home improvements, not renovating a property to sell for profit.

[Leaver]

46 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Where is the news report confirming their fines and deportations? If they were being built to be sold then they were "working".

 

No, it's not similar in the slightest. We are talking about home improvements, not renovating a property to sell for profit.

How would authorities know you were renovating to live in it, or renovating to "flip it?"

 

They don't care either way.  They seize an opportunity to extort some money. 

 

If you are caught on a roof, swinging a hammer, then you are in big trouble, whether it's your house, or not.

 

So, can a foreigner renovate his bar?  He can't serve customers in the bar, but can he renovate it?  He owns the bar, so, according to you, that should be ok.  ???? 

[ThomasThBKK]

So you renovate your property, then decide 3 months later to sell it because your neighbour annoys you too much. 

 

Then it's suddenly "working"? Have fun proving you never intented to sell it.

 

Some call it scaremongering, but i do indeed find it quite scary if that stuff happens..

 

Here's a followup to the boating stuff: https://thethaiger.com/news/phuket/Special-Report-Permission-function-Phuket?amp ... had to bribe their way out with a 60 000 THB fine.

 

Quote

The men were taken to Phuket Immigration [in Phuket Town], but later when a lawyer turned up, we released them,” he said.

 

 

And this is just...so damn typical.

Edited May 11, 2019 by ThomasThBKK

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

So you renovate your property, then decide 3 months later to sell it because your neighbour annoys you too much. 

 

Then it's suddenly "working"? Have fun proving you never intented to sell it.

 

Some call it scaremongering, but i do indeed find it quite scary if that stuff happens..

 

Here's a followup to the boating stuff: https://thethaiger.com/news/phuket/Special-Report-Permission-function-Phuket?amp ... had to bribe their way out with a 60 000 THB fine.

Thanks Thomas.  I was in Phuket at the time, so I remembered the incident, but not the finer details.

 

You are correct.  They don't have to prove you are working, you have to prove you are not, which is very difficult to do when you have some dirt on your hands, and some tools laying around.  ????