Cylinder tax raises motorcycle prices

[rooster59]

Cylinder tax raises motorcycle prices

supawadee wangsri

 

 

BANGKOK, 10 May 2019 (NNT) - The motorcycle excise tax restructuring which changes from calculation of the capacity of the cylinder to the volume of carbon dioxide emission will be effective early next year which will raise the retail prices of most motorcycles in the country of less than 150 CC by 100-200 baht to support the measure to reduce PM 2.5.

 

The motorcycle tax restructuring is due to be announced in the Government Gazette so that it will be effective on January 1, 2020. Motorcycles that use electrical energy will be taxed at a rate of one percent of the retail price while the motorcycles that release below 50 grams of carbon dioxide will be subject to a three percent tax rate. The motorcycles that release from 51-90 grams of carbon dioxide will be subject to a five percent tax rate. The motorcycles that release from 91-130 grams of carbon will be subject to a nine percent tax rate. The motorcycles that release more than 130 grams of carbon dioxide will be subject to a 18 percent tax rate. The motorcycle prototype for research will not be taxed. The measure will cause the retail prices of motorcycles of below 150 CC which account for 90 percent of all motorcycles to rise by 100-200 baht.

 

Mr. Natthakon Utensut, Director of the Excise Department’s Tax Planning Department, said the restructuring of the motorcycle tax will allow the Excise Department to collect an annual revenue of about 30-40 percent or 600-800 million baht more than last year when over two billion baht was collected in accordance with the principle of taxation for the environment and support the competitiveness of the industries with regard to energy efficiency, reducing PM 2.5 and various pollution problems.

 

As for the increase in the excise tax on tobacco that was effective after midnight on May 7 from five stang for 10 grams to one baht for 10 grams, it is expected to yield an additional income of two billion baht from raising the tax from the total tobacco excise tax, totaling approximately 60,000 million baht per year.

 

-- © Copyright nnt 2019-05-11

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[bluesofa]

14 minutes ago, rooster59 said:

The motorcycle excise tax restructuring which changes from calculation of the capacity of the cylinder to the volume of carbon dioxide emission will be effective early next year which will raise the retail prices of most motorcycles in the country of less than 150 CC by 100-200 baht

This is a one-off tax levied at the motorbike manufacturer/importer.

My wife saw a Thai TV report that said tax was to increase between 100 - 1,000 Baht, leaving her with the impression it was the road tax (paid annually at the Land Transport Department) that was increasing.

When I ask her how it differed by engine size, she said the news article didn't explain any details at all, hence the confusion.

[smedly]

It seems to be tax on sales which is quite sensible

[Guderian]

When these articles say the price will rise by 100-200 Baht, you can expect a much larger increase once all the dust has settled. 

[ballpoint]

Just now, Guderian said:

When these articles say the price will rise by 100-200 Baht, you can expect a much larger increase once all the dust has settled. 

And the dust will be taxed as well.

[KhunBENQ]

32 minutes ago, smedly said:

It seems to be tax on sales which is quite sensible

Sure.

"Excise tax" is a tax on the sale price.

And as the article describes it's a percentage of the sale price before tax depending on CO₂ emission.

No word about annual road tax.

Edited May 11, 2019 by KhunBENQ

[KhunBENQ]

3 hours ago, rooster59 said:

The measure will cause the retail prices of motorcycles of below 150 CC which account for 90 percent of all motorcycles to rise by 100-200 baht.

But this 100 to 200 Baht sounds like Thai newspaper math to me.

 

A typical small motorcycle is in the 45000 Baht price range.

3% of that is 1350 Baht.

5% of that is 2250 Baht.

Edited May 11, 2019 by KhunBENQ

[KhunBENQ]

9 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

But this 100 to 200 Baht sounds like Thai newspaper math to me.

Giving it a second thought

They seem to describe the difference between the existing tax based on displacement/cylinders(?) and the newly planned CO₂ based tax for typical small motorbikes.

[bluesofa]

22 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Giving it a second thought

They seem to describe the difference between the existing tax based on displacement/cylinders(?) and the newly planned CO₂ based tax for typical small motorbikes.

Do you mean to say you think it's not the 'import duty' but the annual road tax?
Or have I misunderstood what you said?

[KhunBENQ]

Just now, bluesofa said:

Do you mean to say you think it's not the 'import duty' but the annual road tax?
Or have I misunderstood what you said? 

Misunderstood! Not my day?

 

It's neither import duty not annual road tax

It's a tax on the sale/retail price.

It affects buyers of new motorcycles.

So far it was based on cylinders(displacement?).

Now it will be based on CO₂ emission.

 

[eisfeld]

Yay! They are making (some) big bikes in Thailand even more expensive woohoo!

 

I checked a some bikes and quite a few emit more than 130 g/km so they will jump from the old 8% for 501-1000cc to 18% which is an increase of 10%.

The bikes below marked with "OK" usually will see a 1% increase which is the vast majority of bikes. They calculated the tax brackets with exactly this goal in mind.

 

Honda:

500 range: 80g OK

CB(R)650R: 112g OK

CBR1000RR: 132g INCREASE 8% -> 18%

Africa Twin: 109g OK

X-Adv and 750 range: 85/81g GOOD, decrease from 8% to 5%

MSX125: 34g OK

Click125 etc not sure, I checked the PCX125 from EU and it said 47g so OK

 

BMW:

S1000R/R: 149/154g INCREASE 8% -> 18%

R1250GS: 110g: GOOD, 17% -> 9%

G310R: 77g OK

 

Yamaha:

R1/M: 167g INCREASE 8% -> 18%

MT10: 185g INCREASE 8% -> 18%

MT09: 127g OK

MT07: 100g OK

MT03: 89g: OK

 

Kawasaki:

Z900: 138g INCREASE 8% -> 18%

650 range: 103g OK

 

Ducati:

Scrambler/Monster797: 117g OK

Monster 821: 125g OK

950 range: 122-129g OK

Panigale V4: 165g OK (because already over 1000cc)

Multi 1260: 120g GOOD 17% -> 9%

 

Triumph:

Street Twin: 89g GOOD 8% -> 5%

Speed Twin: 109g GOOD 17% -> 9%

 

I didn't really care for the low dispacement scooters as even a 5% increase on 100k is just 5k and even that's unlikely. But for the big bikes it can make a big difference.

 

Most bikes will see a slight increase, bigger capacity sport bikes will see some big hikes, adventure/touring bikes with low fuel consumption but over 1000cc will see a decrease.

[eisfeld]

[eisfeld]

43 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

Do you mean to say you think it's not the 'import duty' but the annual road tax?
Or have I misunderstood what you said?

You can see it as something similar to VAT, it's a tax levied at the time of sale (though companies can't get around it like with VAT).

[thaiguzzi]

4 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Mr. Natthakon Utensut, Director of the Excise Department’s Tax Planning Department, said the restructuring of the motorcycle tax will allow the Excise Department to collect an annual revenue of about 30-40 percent or 600-800 million baht more than last year when over two billion baht was collected in accordance with the principle of taxation for the environment and support the competitiveness of the industries with regard to energy efficiency, reducing PM 2.5 and various pollution problems.

Idiots.

Hit the piss poor again.

The easy targets.

A 110-125cc moped/scooter call it what you will, currently manufactured with the latest EFI, is prolly the least polluting vehicle on the planet with an internal combustion engine.

Unlike old diesel buses, trucks, 20 y/o Isuzu's, 15 y/o Toyota's, etc etc.

If more people were encouraged to ride aforementioned mopeds and less people drove cars, he would be onto something.

Traffic would be noticeably better too.

Worldwide.

And then i see punters nipping into supermarkets for 10 mins leaving the car/truck running in the car park to keep their little nice cool enviroment cold for their return....

Howzabout CRACKING DOWN ON THAT!

Politicians make me puke.

[finnishmen]

HD not has list, normal men buy HD and how much tax have ? normal human not newer buy race bike. racer tax need be 90% more.

[hotchilli]

1 hour ago, bluesofa said:

Do you mean to say you think it's not the 'import duty' but the annual road tax?
Or have I misunderstood what you said?

It's got nothing to do with road tax.... read the post again.

[eisfeld]

@thaiguzzi yea it's clearly just intentioned to make more money. No manufacturer is going to modify their bikes for the Thai market so it wont change the bikes themselves. Will it change what bikes people buy? Also that I think can be answered with a clear No. And like you rightfully said, bikes are way way more environmentally friendly than cars and especially diesel trucks. If they could crack down on all those black smoke spewing trucks and buses then that would already be a nice thing. But this kind of "go, look for infringers and enforce laws without bribes" will never happen. The only way will be if all cars, trucks and buses get switched to electric or at least diesel gets banned. That wont happen anytime soon so again nothing will change, just the gov will make a bit more money from taxes.

 

What really really pisses me off is the chinese tour companies in Phuket with dozens of buses which all spew cancer in gas form out their backs because they run with fscked up engines/exhausts. They could clearly spend a little in maintenance and fix them but they just don't care one bit.

[eisfeld]

6 minutes ago, finnishmen said:

HD not has list, normal men buy HD and how much tax have ? normal human not newer buy race bike. racer tax need be 90% more.

Can you translate that to understandable english please?

[Vacuum]

33 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

Hit the piss poor again.

The easy targets.

As 99% of them buys their new bikes on credit, the monthly installments would be only a few baht extra.

[Justgrazing]

5 hours ago, rooster59 said:

to support the measure to reduce PM 2.5.

That pic' at the top ? That wasn't snapped in Thailand was it ..

 

It is Diesel engines that are major contributors to particulate pollution .. ( even new gen' derv engines cannot completely remove them ) ..

Modern petrol engines with fuel injection , catalytic converters etc  as fitted to motorcycles are among the most efficient I C units available now .. They emit CO2 , and minute amount's of HC and CO but no particulates as do Diesel units .. and the CO2 output is considerably less than petrol cars as modern commuter type bikes of which you see millions here are much lighter than cars and go alot further for a given quantity of fuel than a 4 wheel counterpart .. 

[unamazedloso]

tested all my bikes and cars with a pm2.5meter even my biggest zx14 with full race straight through exhaust doesnt even register any pm. scooter flashing 1-3 and 450motocross modified shows 0-2. my brand new revo 130-150!! Petrol bikes cause very little pm2.5. Making toast causes more!! Dont believe me? Test it!

[Damrongsak]

2 hours ago, unamazedloso said:

tested all my bikes and cars with a pm2.5meter even my biggest zx14 with full race straight through exhaust doesnt even register any pm. scooter flashing 1-3 and 450motocross modified shows 0-2. my brand new revo 130-150!! Petrol bikes cause very little pm2.5. Making toast causes more!! Dont believe me? Test it!

Which is worse, white or whole wheat?

[Vacuum]

18 hours ago, unamazedloso said:

tested all my bikes and cars with a pm2.5meter even my biggest zx14 with full race straight through exhaust doesnt even register any pm. scooter flashing 1-3 and 450motocross modified shows 0-2. my brand new revo 130-150!! Petrol bikes cause very little pm2.5. Making toast causes more!! Dont believe me? Test it!

Fock the pm2.5 meter. More important is; are they noisy?

[eisfeld]

30 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

Fock the pm2.5 meter. More important is; are they noisy?

Toasters are not very noisy usually ????

 

But anyways, noise is off-topic. This is about motorcycle taxes and gas/particle emissions.

[Galactus]

On 5/11/2019 at 11:46 AM, eisfeld said:

Yay! They are making (some) big bikes in Thailand even more expensive woohoo!

 

I checked a some bikes and quite a few emit more than 130 g/km so they will jump from the old 8% for 501-1000cc to 18% which is an increase of 10%.

The bikes below marked with "OK" usually will see a 1% increase which is the vast majority of bikes. They calculated the tax brackets with exactly this goal in mind.

 

Honda:

500 range: 80g OK

CB(R)650R: 112g OK

CBR1000RR: 132g INCREASE 8% -> 18%

Africa Twin: 109g OK

X-Adv and 750 range: 85/81g GOOD, decrease from 8% to 5%

MSX125: 34g OK

Click125 etc not sure, I checked the PCX125 from EU and it said 47g so OK

 

BMW:

S1000R/R: 149/154g INCREASE 8% -> 18%

R1250GS: 110g: GOOD, 17% -> 9%

G310R: 77g OK

 

Yamaha:

R1/M: 167g INCREASE 8% -> 18%

MT10: 185g INCREASE 8% -> 18%

MT09: 127g OK

MT07: 100g OK

MT03: 89g: OK

 

Kawasaki:

Z900: 138g INCREASE 8% -> 18%

650 range: 103g OK

 

Ducati:

Scrambler/Monster797: 117g OK

Monster 821: 125g OK

950 range: 122-129g OK

Panigale V4: 165g OK (because already over 1000cc)

Multi 1260: 120g GOOD 17% -> 9%

 

Triumph:

Street Twin: 89g GOOD 8% -> 5%

Speed Twin: 109g GOOD 17% -> 9%

 

I didn't really care for the low dispacement scooters as even a 5% increase on 100k is just 5k and even that's unlikely. But for the big bikes it can make a big difference.

 

Most bikes will see a slight increase, bigger capacity sport bikes will see some big hikes, adventure/touring bikes with low fuel consumption but over 1000cc will see a decrease.

did you get the emission numbers fron Europe or US?

Bc they restrict bikes in thaland and emission might be different here.

 

anyway, such a nonsense this new tax increase for motorbikes!

like it is motorbikes polluting around! motorbikes in nature emits a lot less CO2 and if everyone use motorbikes instead of cars, we sure have a lot less pollution.

Instead of encouraging people to ride a motorbike, they raise the tax while keeping the tax the same for all other 4 wheeled vehicles such as trucks with black smoke, lorries, buses, boats and more. it is appalling really.

and a burned for the poor too. to extra tax for a benz but extra tax for a 150 cc small motorbike which thousands of poor or low income family relies on here.

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, Galactus said:

did you get the emission numbers fron Europe or US?

Bc they restrict bikes in thaland and emission might be different here.

 

anyway, such a nonsense this new tax increase for motorbikes!

like it is motorbikes polluting around! motorbikes in nature emits a lot less CO2 and if everyone use motorbikes instead of cars, we sure have a lot less pollution.

Instead of encouraging people to ride a motorbike, they raise the tax while keeping the tax the same for all other 4 wheeled vehicles such as trucks with black smoke, lorries, buses, boats and more. it is appalling really.

and a burned for the poor too. to extra tax for a benz but extra tax for a 150 cc small motorbike which thousands of poor or low income family relies on here.

I used the EU numbers because I couldn't get numbers from the Thai websites of the manufacturers. Some don't even list horse power etc, but instead list the ratio for every gear. A total joke.

 

Granted, numbers for Thai models could be different but given that EU has usually stricter emission regulations than Thailand (Euro 4 and Euro 5 next year). I am not sure why some manufacturers restrict their bikes here to be honest. If they pass Euro 4 then surely they pass the older Thai standards. Take the Fireblade for example, it's restricted down to a ridicolous 130hp in Thailand from a 192hp stock. If a Panigale with 25% more CO2 emissions and full power can be certified by the DLT/TIS then surely the Fireblade could? I refuse the believe that all the manufacturers like Ducati, BMW etc. somehow get around the laws all the time. And because the current tax regulations were based on CC alone, there would have been no financial incentive for them to do it either. Now with the new scheme it's different, they just need to reduce the Blade's emissions by a little bit to get down to a much better tax bracket.

 

I totally agree with you on the overall pollution argument. Before it was just a luxury tax based on cc. Now it's a fake environmentally focused tax whose true purpose is to raise government income.

 

The funny thing is that its pretty much guaranteed that a Panigale will emit orders of magnitude less CO2 over its lifetime compared to a Honda Click simply because it wont be doing as many kilometers. Yet it'll have to pay nearly 10x the tax.

Edited May 13, 2019 by eisfeld

[Galactus]

22 hours ago, eisfeld said:

I used the EU numbers because I couldn't get numbers from the Thai websites of the manufacturers. Some don't even list horse power etc, but instead list the ratio for every gear. A total joke.

 

Granted, numbers for Thai models could be different but given that EU has usually stricter emission regulations than Thailand (Euro 4 and Euro 5 next year). I am not sure why some manufacturers restrict their bikes here to be honest. If they pass Euro 4 then surely they pass the older Thai standards. Take the Fireblade for example, it's restricted down to a ridicolous 130hp in Thailand from a 192hp stock. If a Panigale with 25% more CO2 emissions and full power can be certified by the DLT/TIS then surely the Fireblade could? I refuse the believe that all the manufacturers like Ducati, BMW etc. somehow get around the laws all the time. And because the current tax regulations were based on CC alone, there would have been no financial incentive for them to do it either. Now with the new scheme it's different, they just need to reduce the Blade's emissions by a little bit to get down to a much better tax bracket.

 

I totally agree with you on the overall pollution argument. Before it was just a luxury tax based on cc. Now it's a fake environmentally focused tax whose true purpose is to raise government income.

 

The funny thing is that its pretty much guaranteed that a Panigale will emit orders of magnitude less CO2 over its lifetime compared to a Honda Click simply because it wont be doing as many kilometers. Yet it'll have to pay nearly 10x the tax.

 

they restrict bikes for sound emissions here too plus makers get carbon credits all i know if they release products emitting less CO2.

and superbikes here like s1000rr, zx10r, r1 are also restricted here a bit. and i believe some malpractices happen here for this emission tests etc.

 

sure extra money they collect from new motorbikes will not be used for fighting with pollution! just burden for the poor and no effect.

they should tax bigger 4 wheeled more instead.

[eisfeld]

2 hours ago, Galactus said:

 

they restrict bikes for sound emissions here too plus makers get carbon credits all i know if they release products emitting less CO2.

and superbikes here like s1000rr, zx10r, r1 are also restricted here a bit. and i believe some malpractices happen here for this emission tests etc.

 

sure extra money they collect from new motorbikes will not be used for fighting with pollution! just burden for the poor and no effect.

they should tax bigger 4 wheeled more instead.

The Thai noise emission standard is more leanient than the Euro 4 standard. Under Euro 4 regulations, under full throttle acceleration at 50km/h a max of 77dB(A) at a distance of 7.5m is allowed. Under Thai regulations the max is 95db(A) at 0.5m distance at 1/2 or 3/4 of RPM depending on max power RPM. The additional 7m distance will make a bit of a difference but the fact that the throttle can be relatively closed under Thai standards will counter-weigh that.

 

I don't think that the manufacturers have to restrict the bikes due to sound limits. Both BMW and Ducati specify the full power for their bikes in Thailand. The R1 also is specified as 200PS. If they wanted to reduce noise then they could just quieten the bikes down in the exhaust system without much power loss. The Panigale is way way louder than a Fireblade. Yet the Panigale is not restricted while the Fireblade is (heavily).

 

The sales volume for these bikes is so super low than I'm sure the manufacturers don't care one bit about carbon credits if that indeed is actually a thing here.

 

Agreed again on the last point. Just today I saw numerous *public* buses here in Phuket that are spawing black smoke like a factory chimney. They are not even fixing their own vehicles!