Loan Sharks - Chanote Collateral

[Rally123]

22 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Maybe in the cae of the OP if the facts are correct and the principal and a large chunk of interest already paid

Exactly. Which is what I've been trying to put across. The only way to arbitrate this is by the police getting involved. They don't want to open a case and go to court and the loan sharks don't wanna go to jail so..........................

[Kenny202]

51 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

Exactly. Which is what I've been trying to put across. The only way to arbitrate this is by the police getting involved. They don't want to open a case and go to court and the loan sharks don't wanna go to jail so..........................

I don't know if you have ever lived in a village before or understand the politics but advocating going to the police is not cool, particularly when it sounds like they haven't even tried negotiating with the loan people. And sorry, and no disrespect to the OP but at this point I would take what your wife is telling you with a grain of salt. I think you need to go with her, talk with them and preferably take a Thai along who is in your court that can verify and explain the exact situation to you. Going to the BIB out in the boonies is akin to being seen as a stool pigeon. The BIB will more than likely see you as an opportunity to be taken advantage or laugh you away if there have been no physical threats etc. In any case if the loan people are in your area a trip to the poo jai baan normally the first step if negotiation doesn't work. Things in the villages very different and calling lawyers and police can back fire badly. It's not New York.

 

I myself got involved in a situation where my ex sold some un titled land to a very shady woman over 10 years ago. She actually thought she was selling the land to her sister but some how her Tom gf got her name on the receipt as the owner. So she comes back 10 years after the fact claiming she never knew the land had no title and demanding 150k to be returned to her for the land (she paid 50k). My then GF had many witnesses in the village who were aware of the deal and told her they would back her story etc. Next morning the BIB are in the driveway, finger pointing, photos etc. Wife goes out and the BIB tells her if she doesn't give the 150k back by morning, she will be put in prison. I told my GF to tell the policeman it is a civil matter at best, nothing to do with him...We'll get a lawyer etc. Wasn't fazed a bit. Simply told her he would be charging her with fraud...without him hearing her side of the story or any evidence etc. Only the say so of the woman from Bkk. It was clear he was on a commission. To me it appeared that the woman had seen my then GF's many posts and photos in FB, saw she was with a farang and smelt easy money. This would of encouraged her to make the 5 hour trip to the village to recoup something for an otherwise worthless piece of land. In the meantime, now it has got serious and the BIB involved, all of her witnesses, people who said they would back her up ran for cover, including her aunty and uncle next door. We had talked to a lawyer the previous day who was full of bravado etc. He suddenly got busy. Was a real mess.

 

Amazingly, a mate of mine from Australia came for a visit with his Thai GF. Who's dad happened to be number 2 police in the province. Couple of phone calls and we were in the drivers seat. Met the BIB next morning. He was ducking and diving, said he doesn't even know how he got involved in all this as it is a civil matter lol. In the end we offered the woman what she paid for the land 10 years ago so the sister could rightfully be the owner. The BIB were well on our side by then and told her it was the best offer she was going to get and advised her strongly to accept. Woman was fuming as she had been double crossed at her own dirty game. What amazed me was that a their was no support for a local from the BIB or local villagers. As a satisfying kicker we were watching the news about 2 weeks after and saw her being led away by the police in Bkk, apparently the leader of some stolen car ring. May of been a saving grace as she was a nasty piece of work and didn't look like the type who liked losing.

 

Clarify your situation with the loan people first. What was borrowed, what is owing etc. Then try and negotiate calmly. You start talking lawyers and police and as another poster mentioned you may find out how cheap life really is here. I find with Thais they can be unpredictable and irrational. Usually threats are seen as a challenge and they do the opposite to what you might expect. You thinking you will scare them off with the police, particularly if they have more on the go than a few dodgy loans may only in their minds leave them with little choice. 

[simon43]

Based on what the OP has said about the honestly of his wife, I would advise:

 

- don't go to the police

- don't speak to the loan sharks

- Stop paying your wife 25-30k each month.

- collect your personal belongings from the house and ditch your dishonest wife.  If you can take your kids with you, all the better.

[LukKrueng]

15 hours ago, Rally123 said:

I got involved a similar thing some years ago. I went to see a lawyer. A good one. First make sure your lawyer is genuine. Anyone can set up an office and give legal advice in Thailand. Only difference between a real one and a fake one is that only a qualified one can represent you in court. Many bogus lawyers out there.

The illegal money lenders have your land title paper. Without your wife's signature, at the local land office confirming transfer, the paper is worth nothing other than being an inconvenience to yourselves. You have every right to live there and farm if you wish. The loan sharks have no rights even though they may hold the land paper. 

My suggestion is that you pay no more money. Go down to your local cop shop and tell them what has happened. Your wife will not be in trouble. The 'loan sharks' will be. The police will probably just have a quiet word with them and tell them to return the paper and clear off their patch and all outstanding monies will not be paid in exchange for no formal complaint or charges being made. Job done. Don't waste your money on a lawyer. Good luck and be strong. Your wife must be worried sihtless (anagram) .

Loans by loan sharks, although illegal (just as prostitution and many other things),  is part of life in Thailand and sometimes the only way 1 can get money they need. Do you really think the whole system works on a bluff? Do you really think the sharks have no way to actually take over the property? 

 

 

14 hours ago, Luca Brasi said:

Thanks for all the replies so far. 

 

We have a formal appointment with the lawyer on Tuesday, but over phone he told us the easiest & cheapest solution would probably be a private settlement with the loan sharks.

 

He also advised against reporting to the police for now, unless we have some proofs (Line messages, sms,...) of threats or physical aggression.

 

Regarding the chanote, I understood that she signed a paper stating to use the house as a collateral until the loan is fully repaid (which is already...at least under the law maximum interest rate) and handed over the chanote to them. She told me there was a police officer when she signed who is accomplice with the loan sharks, hence she's now scared to get arrested and to lose the house.

 

I've also asked the laywer if I could just declare a lost chanote and get a new one at the land office, he STRONGLY advised not to do it!

 

 

The fact that YOU think the loan was fully paid under the law's maximum interest rate means nothing. Your wife took a loan based on a higher rate knowing it is in fact higher than legally allowed yet agreed to pay the asked rate. In a way it's like if you buy a car on finance and once you paid the equivalent amount this car would cost in your home country you decide you have paid enough and the car is now yours without paying the balance.

I don't think they will get violent with you or your family, but I am pretty sure they can take over the property so I guess your best bet is to pay the balance of what you owe and be done with it.

[buffallobill]

My wife asked me for 100 thousand bht, 2 months ago, someone in her village is building a house and needed extra money for 1 or 2 months until his brother(who works in Korea) could pay the debt. The interest is 5% per month. So far my wife has received 10 thousand bht for 2 months interest, and yesterday 20 thousand was paid off the debt. It seems pretty normal in her village, I have no involvement in it, and she gives me half of all profit. 

[Rally123]

1 hour ago, Kenny202 said:

I don't know if you have ever lived in a village before or understand the politics but advocating going to the police is not cool,

Been living here in rural Buriram 14 years and that's the way out here.

 

38 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

Do you really think the sharks have no way to actually take over the property? 

Correct without the signature of the person named on the papers. From my reading the OP's wife has committed a couple of offences as well as the lone sharks. In that she got a loan out on what I believe to be Sor Por Kor land. By law 'Sor Por Kor' titled land cannot be sold or be used to borrow money on. Sor Por Kor land is kings land and can only be passed on when the named person on it dies. And then it has to be a family member. So the OP's wife has broke the laws. She probably knows this and is bricking it by not wanting to go to the police. But because there are 2 sides to this she has no other choice but to get the police to arbitrate in a settlement. The NORMAL method out in the villages. Plus she'll probably have to tell where the gambling took place which is going to cause her problems for grassing.

As for the OP using a lawyer. For what use is he? I suppose he could send the the 'loan sharks' a letter threatening to report them to the police. Cuz that's about all he can do. Not that they'll have an office.

[XenZen]

clearly the OP is a little concerned, and it's important to go with your "gut feeling."  really the most important.  i would not involve the police or anything, since that increases risk to your family and house.  so protect the kids.  now try to meet with someone and figure out exactly what number will make this go away.  is it 300,000?  500,000?  yes, it's horrible, and you lose.  but only money.  but you learned and came out safe.  you pay whatever, and then you leave.  you sell the house.  you dump the gf or wife.  she has brought danger to you and your kids.  OK, let's say you lose 1 million baht........or someone gets hurt.    there is no happy ending where they say, "mai bpen rai chooooooooke deeeee'>   and you know this.  

[simon43]

6 minutes ago, buffallobill said:

My wife asked me for 100 thousand bht, 2 months ago, someone in her village is building a house and needed extra money for 1 or 2 months until his brother(who works in Korea) could pay the debt. The interest is 5% per month. So far my wife has received 10 thousand bht for 2 months interest, and yesterday 20 thousand was paid off the debt. It seems pretty normal in her village, I have no involvement in it, and she gives me half of all profit. 

LoL, the villagers know where that money comes from - don't expect any help from them if you need it in the future.

 

I hope your visa is all in order....

[buffallobill]

4 minutes ago, simon43 said:

LoL, the villagers know where that money comes from - don't expect any help from them if you need it in the future.

 

I hope your visa is all in order....

I live in Pattaya, don't think I will need help from people in a small village in Issan. 

Of course they know where the money comes from, that's why they ask for loans from the woman with farang husband. 

Yes my visa is fine.... Thanks

[Pravda]

One of many lies probably.

 

There is no future with most village Thai woman while husband is working overseas.

[Rally123]

15 minutes ago, Pravda said:

One of many lies probably.

 

There is no future with most village Thai woman while husband is working overseas.

When the cats away.......................

[Stevemercer]

An interesting topic (because so many of us are married to Thai wives with undisclosed debts), but the wright of opinion seems to be:

 

• The loan shark cannot take over or somehow get access to your land and house. They would need complicit officials in the Land Department, Police and local government to do this. Such officials are not going to risk jail for such small scale loan sharking.
• The principal is 300,000 Baht and more than this amount has been paid in interest, based on what your wife says. This may or may not be true.
• As others have suggested, you (or someone on your behalf), will have to open negotiations with whomever is behind the loan and work out a repayment schedule. Based on the above this will probably be to repay the 300,000 Baht principal (with no further interest payments) either immediately or over 12 months. You will probably need to sign a legal contract for the schedule, enforceable under civil law if you default.
• You will not loose your property or get physically intimidated or beaten up (this will just increase their risk of exposure or getting in trouble).
• Most loan sharks work on the basis of threat (e.g. will blab to everyone about the bad debt so your wife looses face). They also have endless patience and are willing to wait a few years to see if they can turn the bad debt into an advantage (for example, if you move on or the wife takes on more debt).

[baansgr]

So the money was gambled and the land title deed isn't a Chanote but land owned by the King, I cant find the OP saying this anywhere in his posts

[lensta]

15 hours ago, Luca Brasi said:

Oh I meant to say with the money transferred every month to her account, we can prove she was paying the monthly 15K to them. But I didn't know some of the funds were used for loan sharks repayments until today...

 

Anyway, we'll see on Tuesday what's next.

 

The only thing that reassures me is that she didn't sign anything at the land office.

There are 2 Types of loans (probably More) that I know of.

 

1. Where a person borrows money from the loan shark and agrees to pay it back in a given time. A chanote title is used as security and the loan is noted on the back of the chanote at the land office. With this type of loan, the loan shark automatically gets the property if the loan has not been repaid in the agreed time. There is a name for this type of loan but I cannot remember it

 

2. Where a person takes out a mortgage type loan with a loan shark. With this type of loan the loan shark has to engage a lawyer and go to court to get the property if the payments have not been made.

 

With either of these loans, the loan would have been noted on the back of both copies of the chanote, otherwise the loan shark has no security.

 

As of January 15th 2017 it became illegal for loan sharks to charge more than 15% per year or 1.25% interest per month. Whatever interest rate you paid before this date, you probably can't do anything about, but the excess interest rate that you paid after this date can be deducted from the principal amount. In your case, you probably have 26 months of over paying interest on the loan.

 

If we go on the past 2 years, you have paid 180,000 THB interest per year, where at the legal interest rate of 15% per year, you should have paid 45,000 per year. 360,000 - 90,000= 270,000. 270,000 is the amount that you have over paid in interest.

 

If you plan on going to the police, do not go to the local town police, got to the provincial police as they are far less likely to be connected to the loan shark.

 

Below is some info for you.

 

https://www.tilleke.com/resources/thailand-new-law-interest-overcharging

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Govt-to-crack-down-on-loan-sharks-offer-lending-li-30287551.html

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2019/02/10/thailand-illegal-money-lenders-thai-police-government-lenders-thai-women-loan-sharks/

[lensta]

2 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

Loans by loan sharks, although illegal (just as prostitution and many other things),  is part of life in Thailand and sometimes the only way 1 can get money they need. Do you really think the whole system works on a bluff? Do you really think the sharks have no way to actually take over the property? 

 

 

The fact that YOU think the loan was fully paid under the law's maximum interest rate means nothing. Your wife took a loan based on a higher rate knowing it is in fact higher than legally allowed yet agreed to pay the asked rate. In a way it's like if you buy a car on finance and once you paid the equivalent amount this car would cost in your home country you decide you have paid enough and the car is now yours without paying the balance.

I don't think they will get violent with you or your family, but I am pretty sure they can take over the property so I guess your best bet is to pay the balance of what you owe and be done with it.

"The fact that YOU think the loan was fully paid under the law's maximum interest rate means nothing."

 

Actually it does. The law that came into effect on January 15th, 2017 states that it does not matter what is written on any previous or new contracts, from January 15th, 2017 the maximum interest that can be charged on a loan is 15% per year

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, Rally123 said:

When the cats away.......................

Definitely. I have lived in three villages and every one had one or 2 Thai woman who had a farang "husband" who traveled back and forth. I will include my first Thai missus as doing this to me as well. As soon as hubby was gone the Thai BF, normally a much younger bloke moved in. In some cases she was on her 2nd or 3rd farang. As soon as the bloke wakes up and puts the brakes on the money he's out and she's on her way to Pattaya to find a new white buffalo. There is no blame assigned to the woman by the villagers, nor is she considered a whore. She is "Geng" (smart). The lady I was living with across the road, who I wouldn't have thought would give a person like this the time of day seemed to think it was funny. I asked her what everyone would think if she did the same thing to a Thai man. "Oh, no good". She even tried to justify the woman across the roads actions by saying that when the farang man is here, "she love only him" lol, like it was ok. I said well you work about 12 hours a day. How about I go and get a GF for the daytime, when you are at work. And when you come home in the evening I will love only you. Is that ok? Noooooo!!!

 

It just confirmed my thoughts that they not only view us as non Thai, but as a different species.

[dabhand]

19 minutes ago, lensta said:

There are 2 Types of loans (probably More) that I know of.

 

1. Where a person borrows money from the loan shark and agrees to pay it back in a given time. A chanote title is used as security and the loan is noted on the back of the chanote at the land office. With this type of loan, the loan shark automatically gets the property if the loan has not been repaid in the agreed time. There is a name for this type of loan but I cannot remember it

 

2. Where a person takes out a mortgage type loan with a loan shark. With this type of loan the loan shark has to engage a lawyer and go to court to get the property if the payments have not been made.

 

With either of these loans, the loan would have been noted on the back of both copies of the chanote, otherwise the loan shark has no security.

 

As of January 15th 2017 it became illegal for loan sharks to charge more than 15% per year or 1.25% interest per month. Whatever interest rate you paid before this date, you probably can't do anything about, but the excess interest rate that you paid after this date can be deducted from the principal amount. In your case, you probably have 26 months of over paying interest on the loan.

 

If we go on the past 2 years, you have paid 180,000 THB interest per year, where at the legal interest rate of 15% per year, you should have paid 45,000 per year. 360,000 - 90,000= 270,000. 270,000 is the amount that you have over paid in interest.

 

If you plan on going to the police, do not go to the local town police, got to the provincial police as they are far less likely to be connected to the loan shark.

 

Below is some info for you.

 

https://www.tilleke.com/resources/thailand-new-law-interest-overcharging

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Govt-to-crack-down-on-loan-sharks-offer-lending-li-30287551.html

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2019/02/10/thailand-illegal-money-lenders-thai-police-government-lenders-thai-women-loan-sharks/

1) This is Kai Fak - Sale or redemption. As noted, the chanote needs to be signed off by the owner at the Land Office to be a legal sale with the property redeemed when fully repaid within a given time limit (which can be extended, if agreed), otherwise the property is deemed legally sold if the loan not repaid in full. The OP needs to confirm whether this has happened - not just take the word of his wife.

 

Your calculation of monies paid assumes that the 15k was actually paid by the wife to the lender. As the OP has stated he gives his wife 20-20k per month, that only leaves 5-10k per month for her and the kids. A bit of a stretch I would think. Really think that the OP needs to bottom out all issues before he pitches up at the lawyer next week. Given he has been treated as a mushroom to date, is the recent confessions by the wife any different?

[Kenny202]

2 hours ago, Rally123 said:

In that she got a loan out on what I believe to be Sor Por Kor land. By law 'Sor Por Kor' titled land cannot be sold or be used to borrow money on. Sor Por Kor land is kings land and can only be passed on when the named person on it dies. And then it has to be a family member.

I don't believe the OP said it was untitled land and in any case your statements are incorrect. I have been third party to a few of these land deals here and whilst 100 years ago the intention of the law may have been as you say, but in reality it just isn't the case like so many other things here. Prostitution, gambling schools, black lottery, cock fighting, home brew, drunk driving, firearms etc etc are all illegal. Its the way things are in the bush here and the BIB tolerate and dabble in all these things themselves, it's the way they were brought up, village culture. I believe back in the old days thats why the houses were built in the style they were and still sometimes are. They were basically squatters and the homes had to be relocatable. 

 

I have seen un titled land being sold on at least 20 occasions and not to relatives. And it isn't always Kings land as you call it. Often the original person who came to the area years ago will have some claim lodged with the land office. Since then it has been subdivided, sold, split up etc. The land office simply hadn't gotten around to surveying the area and documenting the allotments and until they do, it can not be titled. We could have paid 10k THB for a special visit from the surveyors to get our (her) land titled, or start the ball rolling of a 3 year process. They sell a form at most of the village shops, not much more than a receipt really with an area for a mud map, dimensions etc which you use for sale. And certainly many many people in every village borrow money against untitled land. You can't just stand on your digs here, demand your rights or expect everything to be to the letter of the law. It just doesn't work like that. If what you were saying were true at least half the rural population here would be guilty on both counts of selling land and obtaining loans. No the banks, wont touch untitled land, and nor would I spend a fortune on a big home on untitled land....but many do

[Rally123]

We're going completely off topic here but I have to agree with Kenny202 100%. Not only that but when the hubby is doing a month off month on the relationship is different as she only has to put up with buffalo farang for a short time and then it's party party. The problems occur when he stops working shifts and he then gets under her feet. She's then tied down and things change. Have seen it many times. Plus the wife/girlfriend will not want you to speak with other farangs locally. It's not for what they know but what they may know. As a bargirl would say 'Roo Rak Mai Dee'. A farang that knows to much (about Thai ways) is dangerous. 

[seajae]

seems the op is not going to let us know what the 300,000 was for originally, sorry but the fact she has lied and deceived you is pretty bad especially when it sounds as if you could have loaned her the money in the first place so tell us op, what was the money for, her extended family, her kids from previous relationships, gambling debts, if she never told you it cant be too good. Good on you for standing with her but why has she done this in the first place, you need to know you can trust her, at the moment she cant be trusted at all

 

[Kenny202]

39 minutes ago, lensta said:

 

If you plan on going to the police, do not go to the local town police, got to the provincial police as they are far less likely to be connected to the loan shark.

You can not just go to the provincial Police or head office. They will only direct you back to the local Police station. I know this for a fact as it's happened to me twice. An ex actually (had been estranged 3 months) broke into my home and the local guys were not only (it appeared) very anti foreigner but could speak no English. It started out as me requesting help to remove a particularly violent psychopath who had forced entry into my home, to her regaling tales of me trying to strangle her and asking 500k THB before she would leave the premises. A lot to do with her out and out willingness to lie and my inability to defend myself in anyway by making myself understood. Hence I would advise, don't get the BIB involved unless absolutely necessary. Even if you believe you are 100% in the right, lay down misere it's very easy to find yourself at the wrong end of the stick and things can get beyond your control.   

Quote

 

[Rally123]

22 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

I don't believe the OP said it was untitled land and in any case your statements are incorrect.

He didn't but the chances are likely to be very high. Regarding what you say above it's your Statements that are incorrect. Whether the laws may be correct 100 years ago, as you state, nothing has legally changed. It is the law still to this day. "You cannot obtain a loan on 'Kings Land' or sell it." Yes it happens but....................... Who is stupid enough to buy 'Kings Land' and build a 5 million Baht house on it knowing the 'King' can repossess it next day without paying compensation?

And it's futile thinking your Sor Por Kor land is going to be changed to Chanote within your life time. That's always told when Sor Por Kor land is sold. "Yeah we had people come around last year marking up the land so it can be upgraded soon". BS. Goes on all the time.

[Luca Brasi]

4 minutes ago, seajae said:

seems the op is not going to let us know what the 300,000 was for originally, sorry but the fact she has lied and deceived you is pretty bad especially when it sounds as if you could have loaned her the money in the first place so tell us op, what was the money for, her extended family, her kids from previous relationships, gambling debts, if she never told you it cant be too good. Good on you for standing with her but why has she done this in the first place, you need to know you can trust her, at the moment she cant be trusted at all

 

The 300,000 THB were for paying parents medical, rent, daily expenses and buy them a medical insurance, as well as pay for her nephew funerals.

 

Completely agree, I could have loaned her the 300,000 THB myself...

[Rally123]

5 minutes ago, Luca Brasi said:

The 300,000 THB were for paying parents medical, rent, daily expenses and buy them a medical insurance, as well as pay for her nephew funerals.

Are you feeling well? Forget the lawyer. Forget the police. Forget the wife. And don't forget your flight ticket outta here. I'm off this thread.

[Luca Brasi]

4 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

He didn't but the chances are likely to be very high. Regarding what you say above it's your Statements that are incorrect. Whether the laws may be correct 100 years ago, as you state, nothing has legally changed. It is the law still to this day. "You cannot obtain a loan on 'Kings Land' or sell it." Yes it happens but....................... Would would buy 'Kings Land' and build a 5 million Baht house on it knowing the 'King' can repossess it next day without paying compensation?

And it's futile thinking your Sor Por Kor land is going to be changed to Chanote within your life time. That's always told when Sor Por Kor land is sold. "Yeah we had people come around last year marking up the land so it can be upgraded soon". BS

Just to be clear, the property is a semi-detached house in Bangkok with a regular chanote attached to it. 

 

I've asked her 3 times if she signed anything at the Land Office and she said no. She said the same to the lawyer whom we talked to over the phone. So for now, I'm just left with meeting the lawyer on Tuesday and sort it out without too much damage for myself and the kids. 

 

One point I forgot to mention is our oldest kid is marked as a co-owner on the chanote and I understand only a court order can allow sale / ownership transfer until the child is 18 ?

[Kenny202]

44 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

And it's futile thinking your Sor Por Kor land is going to be changed to Chanote within your life time. That's always told when Sor Por Kor land is sold. "Yeah we had people come around last year marking up the land so it can be upgraded soon". BS. Goes on all the time.

Again it is just not true.... and like so many scare mongers here worst case scenario. Land was subdivided, completed and titled near her home while she was away in Australia. Took 2 years for the whole process to be finished but they got their titles. They simply didn't do hers because she wasn't home and it would of cost her 10k THB to get someone out to start the process for her land or wait until they get around to coming back again.  

[Kenny202]

38 minutes ago, Luca Brasi said:

Just to be clear, the property is a semi-detached house in Bangkok with a regular chanote attached to it. 

 

I've asked her 3 times if she signed anything at the Land Office and she said no. She said the same to the lawyer whom we talked to over the phone. So for now, I'm just left with meeting the lawyer on Tuesday and sort it out without too much damage for myself and the kids. 

 

One point I forgot to mention is our oldest kid is marked as a co-owner on the chanote and I understand only a court order can allow sale / ownership transfer until the child is 18 ?

I think it is actually 19yo but neither here nor there. Actually looked into this to see if I could obtain land / home here in my sons name without my ex (sons mother) having access to or control of it. What I probably would be doing is giving her an incentive to come and get him

[Kenny202]

44 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

Are you feeling well? Forget the lawyer. Forget the police. Forget the wife. And don't forget your flight ticket outta here. I'm off this thread.

Yeah mate, really. They always come up with a noble reason for doing shtty things. It's likely you will never get to the real truth but in any case insurance, funerals or whatever she has lied to you and financially put you in jeopardy, and most likely would again. I know of a guy here recently been with his wife 17 years I think. Raised kids together, had a business, home together. Both similar ages +50. He just got the bad news she has gambled approximately 4 million baht away and lost the lot. He is back in Australia now looking for a job working in the mines and he's nearing 60yo. You don't want this to be you

[lensta]

1 hour ago, Kenny202 said:

You can not just go to the provincial Police or head office. They will only direct you back to the local Police station. I know this for a fact as it's happened to me twice. An ex actually (had been estranged 3 months) broke into my home and the local guys were not only (it appeared) very anti foreigner but could speak no English. It started out as me requesting help to remove a particularly violent psychopath who had forced entry into my home, to her regaling tales of me trying to strangle her and asking 500k THB before she would leave the premises. A lot to do with her out and out willingness to lie and my inability to defend myself in anyway by making myself understood. Hence I would advise, don't get the BIB involved unless absolutely necessary. Even if you believe you are 100% in the right, lay down misere it's very easy to find yourself at the wrong end of the stick and things can get beyond your control.   

It would seem that perhaps different provincial police react differently. Where I live I only know of 1 occasion where a person went straight to the provincial police. The outcome went in his favor and one of the officers at the local police station was transferred. Also quite often the traffic stops are manned by the provincial police in my area. For me, if I was going to the police, I would try the provincial police first, If they say go to the local police, then I would have to re think my plan.

[snowgard]

22 hours ago, churchill said:

Normally the guaranteed land paper is signed over to the loan shark ... so you need to check that .. If it has been they have ownership until the loan is repaid .. In this case I would negotiate a settlement with them asap ..

 

If the land paper has not been signed over then perhaps your lawyer can negotiate a settlement more easily .

 

I would not get involved with the courts .

Why not?