Loan Sharks - Chanote Collateral

[taninthai]

Jeez buy them 5 million bht house give 25,000 bht a month and it’s still not enough for them......these stories just remind me why I prefer to stay single.

i also know of a Thai girl that has done this 2 times to her ferang husband I the last 2 years not 300 k smaller amounts but both times the husband bailed her out.

waste of time with the lawyer really,as others have said gotta speak direct with the sharks and negotiate a figure to end this mess.

[Tomahawk21]

you just got to love the honesty of marriage . 

[baansgr]

6 hours ago, Luca Brasi said:

The 300,000 THB were for paying parents medical, rent, daily expenses and buy them a medical insurance, as well as pay for her nephew funerals.

 

Completely agree, I could have loaned her the 300,000 THB myself...

Wow, bad luck always comes in 3s....and nephews funeral....what about the nephews immediate family.....sorry chap, she's having you over big time and she wont ever change....get shot of her, write the house off in exchange for the kids and leave.....just yet another example of why never to buy property in Thailand unless a condo in your own name.

[onera1961]

On 5/17/2019 at 5:57 AM, Luca Brasi said:

Wife took a 300,000 THB loan about 3 years ago from loan sharks (I didn't know about it until today). She says she signed some kind of loan contract.

It would be interesting to know what she did with 300K? I want to know what goes on in Thais' minds.

[baansgr]

4 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

It would be interesting to know what she did with 300K? I want to know what goes on in Thais' minds.

Read the thread....extended family funeral, both parents sick, rent for parents, medical insurance for parents, daily expenses for parents....comedy at its best, simply amazing

[Mansell]

Some of these loans are at 20 percent.......not a year.....but a month. Do the math, you will never pay it off at these interest rates.

My wife's father borrowed two different loans against the house and land......never paid one dime......total selfish idiot expecting his children to bail him out. I loaned them the money, 550,000 baht. Four children will pay me 30,000 a month.....we will see how that works out.....but they seem to be genuinely appreciative.....so far. My wife is the smartest one in their family and she seems to be on top of them all in this situation. She talked with the two different lenders and agreed final amounts. When they got pushy and greedy she said fine, take the house and land......they backed off quickly because the land etc wasn't worth much 70 kilos outside Nakhon Sawan and nobody would want to buy it. She made her father stop working, sign over the land and house to her so he cannot borrow anymore money. Hopefully this will be the end of it all. Sadly this isn't an unusual situation in this country. Good luck to the guy and his family......talk to the loan sharks and negotiate a deal.

[Isaanbiker]

A woman in our neighborhood hanged herself after taking a loan from such an incredible Loan Shark.

 If people are not able to pay back, they receive a verbal warning.

 The second time could be a destroyed knee cap, or similar.

 

   The last warning then is that the credit takers better hang themselves before others do it for them, which she did.

 

   A few weeks after the poor woman had taken her life, two guys on a motorbike stopped at a little Somtham restaurant near a private hospital where a loan shark was trying to enjoy his food.

 

   Both men wore helmets, walked to his table and short him in his head twice, then took off in broad daylight.

 

   Never heard anything about it in the news. But I was opposite the Somtham restaurant having a fag when this happened. 

 

   It's a tough business, and life here isn't worth much.

 

  OP, there might be something else your wife isn't telling you. Have a serious chat with her and try to find a solution on how to satisfy the sharks. 

 

   I'd also think about my marriage and ask myself how many more dead buddies are under your bed without you knowing it. Stay safe.  

  

  

[greg67]

14 hours ago, buffallobill said:

My wife asked me for 100 thousand bht, 2 months ago, someone in her village is building a house and needed extra money for 1 or 2 months until his brother(who works in Korea) could pay the debt. The interest is 5% per month. So far my wife has received 10 thousand bht for 2 months interest, and yesterday 20 thousand was paid off the debt. It seems pretty normal in her village, I have no involvement in it, and she gives me half of all profit. 

I have no involvement in it, and she gives me half of all profit.

 

No involvement????? Hahaha....

[baansgr]

8 hours ago, Mansell said:

Some of these loans are at 20 percent.......not a year.....but a month. Do the math, you will never pay it off at these interest rates.

My wife's father borrowed two different loans against the house and land......never paid one dime......total selfish idiot expecting his children to bail him out. I loaned them the money, 550,000 baht. Four children will pay me 30,000 a month.....we will see how that works out.....but they seem to be genuinely appreciative.....so far. My wife is the smartest one in their family and she seems to be on top of them all in this situation. She talked with the two different lenders and agreed final amounts. When they got pushy and greedy she said fine, take the house and land......they backed off quickly because the land etc wasn't worth much 70 kilos outside Nakhon Sawan and nobody would want to buy it. She made her father stop working, sign over the land and house to her so he cannot borrow anymore money. Hopefully this will be the end of it all. Sadly this isn't an unusual situation in this country. Good luck to the guy and his family......talk to the loan sharks and negotiate a deal.

Straight talking post exactly how it is. And yes its not unusual, in fact very common. Be members on here unaware what wife is doing. 

[XenZen]

This is why I want to be married in Thailand.   I am so glad money is not a big deal.  

 

Now I'm realizing why people hate backpackers so much.  they appear poor and the people with money wish they could go back in time and not worry about money as much.  yes, they could give all their money away, but money is the only thing that defines them.  they have nothing else.

 

remember, we put a price on people's lives as well.  if the OP doesn't pay the 300,000 or whatever, he's decided physical pain is acceptable because it's too much money.   he could pay this off today, and everyone would be safe.

 

but money is involved.  there is no love, no trust, and money is everything and health is nothing.  hahahhahahahhahh

[Luca Brasi]

12 hours ago, Mansell said:

Some of these loans are at 20 percent.......not a year.....but a month. Do the math, you will never pay it off at these interest rates.

My wife's father borrowed two different loans against the house and land......never paid one dime......total selfish idiot expecting his children to bail him out. I loaned them the money, 550,000 baht. Four children will pay me 30,000 a month.....we will see how that works out.....but they seem to be genuinely appreciative.....so far. My wife is the smartest one in their family and she seems to be on top of them all in this situation. She talked with the two different lenders and agreed final amounts. When they got pushy and greedy she said fine, take the house and land......they backed off quickly because the land etc wasn't worth much 70 kilos outside Nakhon Sawan and nobody would want to buy it. She made her father stop working, sign over the land and house to her so he cannot borrow anymore money. Hopefully this will be the end of it all. Sadly this isn't an unusual situation in this country. Good luck to the guy and his family......talk to the loan sharks and negotiate a deal.

That's the plan I have in mind: 

 

    - Get the advise of the lawyer next week whom probably will offer to arrange a settlement. 

 

    - Get wife to sell whatever valuables she has (gold, motorbike) to pay part of the settlement, so she feels it.

 

    - As soon as  the chanote is returned, go to the land office and get her to transfer ownership exclusively to the children. 

[Traubert]

On 5/18/2019 at 11:28 AM, Kenny202 said:

It's not New York.

 

 

I wish someone had said that seven pages back instead of just three.

[ThomasThBKK]

5 hours ago, Luca Brasi said:

That's the plan I have in mind: 

 

    - Get the advise of the lawyer next week whom probably will offer to arrange a settlement. 

 

    - Get wife to sell whatever valuables she has (gold, motorbike) to pay part of the settlement, so she feels it.

 

    - As soon as  the chanote is returned, go to the land office and get her to transfer ownership exclusively to the children. 

Good plan. 

 

In case you are wondering about lease/usufruct in your name.

It's quite useless if you are already married, so giving the land to your kids is the best way. 

[baansgr]

1 hour ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Good plan. 

 

In case you are wondering about lease/usufruct in your name.

It's quite useless if you are already married, so giving the land to your kids is the best way. 

The OP is doing about as much as any Foreigner can do when it comes to situations like this. House in kids name okay but he won't ever be able to sell it and more importantly his wife can stay there even if he wants to divorce, dread to think of the fireworks when she's asked to sell gold and bike. Readers should take note, kids, she's different or whatever...extended family will put the screws on for money. OP is a first poster, wonder whether he's a previous member advocating house ownership. I even know a few guys that have no idea about their houses not being theirs, wider have hocked them to the hilt....family own shares, its a disaster for anyone....

[Kenny202]

Good plan. 
 
In case you are wondering about lease/usufruct in your name.
It's quite useless if you are already married, so giving the land to your kids is the best way. 

Out of interest, why is usefruct useless if already married...or what if you had a usefruct before u were married and then put house in wifes name? I know people in both these situations now



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[ThomasThBKK]

8 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Out of interest, why is usefruct useless if already married...or what if you had a usefruct before u were married and then put house in wifes name? I know people in both these situations now



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In general every agreement between wife and husband can be avoided by either of them at any time, as long as it doesn't damage a third party.

 

If you have an usufruct from someone who's not your wife or from her before marriage that should be fine, but a usufruct that you do with your wife when you are married won't survive the divorce.

[alacrity]

Unless the transaction was verified on the addendum (on the rear) of the chanote the lender can't claim ownership.

I won't say under any circumstance as they may prove to be very persuasive. Better to negotiate a settlement based on original contract unless Johny Rambo's your best friend.

[Kenny202]

In general every agreement between wife and husband can be avoided by either of them at any time, as long as it doesn't damage a third party.
 
If you have an usufruct from someone who's not your wife or from her before marriage that should be fine, but a usufruct that you do with your wife when you are married won't survive the divorce.

My friend had a previous wife. She died. The house was in her name and he had a usefruct. When she passed on she willed the property to him. He has since remarried and put the house in new wifes name. Existing usefruct still on the chanote. How would that play out in a split

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[Rally123]

3 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Good plan. 

 

In case you are wondering about lease/usufruct in your name.

It's quite useless if you are already married, so giving the land to your kids is the best way. 

But if it's Sor Por Kor land the land/titled deeds cannot be given/transferred to the children until the person on the title, who ever that is, pops their clogs. Will people posting shit refrain from doing so please.

[Kenny202]

1 minute ago, Rally123 said:

But if it's Sor Por Kor land the land/titled the deeds cannot be given/transfered to the children until the person on the title, who ever that is, pops their clogs. Will people posting shit refrain from doing so please.

Ur the one needs to refrain from posting shit. If it is government / untitled land ie no chanote you can not have a usefruct anyway. And you harping on about need to wait for family member to die is ridiculous. Untitled land is sold here every day in every village and not only to family members. Whether it's legal or not to the letter of the law that is a fact. In fact it always has to be approved and signed off by the poo jai baan. In our case he told us it was perfectly legal to sell untitled land. My ex and her sister bought land by a receipt only and ended up having the land surveyed and titled in here name, as many others I know have,  

[Rally123]

18 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

it always has to be approved and signed off by the poo jai baan.

Bol***** it has to be signed of at the 'Land Office'. Stop believing the shit you are being told.

Quote

Edit:-  My understanding of Sor Por Kor land, is as you say government land given to poor people for farming etc. The land cannot be brought, sold, developed or mortgaged, only passed on the heirs. 

 

[churchill]

The OP has already stated..

 

'Just to be clear, the property is a semi-detached house in Bangkok with a regular chanote attached to it. '

[Rally123]

It's the land the house sits on, not the house that is the valuable asset. Doh. Please stay out of it if you don't know. Thank you.

[ThomasThBKK]

It's the land the house sits on, not the house that is the valuable asset. Doh. Please stay out of it if you don't know. Thank you.

It's a chanote title dead for the land, stop making stuff up.

The op never said otherwise.

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[baansgr]

48 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

But if it's Sor Por Kor land the land/titled deeds cannot be given/transferred to the children until the person on the title, who ever that is, pops their clogs. Will people posting shit refrain from doing so please.

Stop.....it isnt,

[CharlieH]

Keep it civil please !

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

8.) You will not post disruptive or inflammatory messages, vulgarities, obscenities or profanities.

[churchill]

34 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

It's the land the house sits on, not the house that is the valuable asset. Doh. Please stay out of it if you don't know. Thank you.

Sorry to interfere in your private discussions .. 

 

'Just to be clear, the property is a semi-detached house in Bangkok with a regular chanote attached to it. '

 

So I am not sure why you are discussing Sor Por Kor land ?

 

I understand very well how loans are registered on the back of land papers at the land office  and so if the house is on the land it is also an asset unless the OP has a lease ?

[Rally123]

8 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

It's a chanote title dead for the land, stop making stuff up.

The op never said otherwise.

And he never confirmed as to the land title. So stop making things up. 

[Rally123]

8 hours ago, churchill said:

'Just to be clear, the property is a semi-detached house in Bangkok with a regular chanote attached to it. '

 

Can you be clear as to the meaning of a 'regular Chanote'? I've never heard of one. Chanote yes. 'Regular Chanote' no.

 

8 hours ago, churchill said:

So I am not sure why you are discussing Sor Por Kor land ?

Because you cannot buy or sell Sor Por Kor land legally. It can only be passed on to a family member of the named person on the title upon their death. The house cannot be sold separate of the land title papers. It is an important fact as to living in Thailand that one has to fully understand the land laws. If you have land papers then the title of the land appears in the top right hand corner. Get that translated and then you'll know. Don't take it as fact on what your missus tells you. Thais accept not being honest as being okay.

[Luca Brasi]

Final update on this as after meeting the lawyer (actually a barrister), I've got a path towards resolution. Thanks for all the replies.

 

For any future readers in a similar situation, please note:

 

- Overcharging interest rate in Thailand is a criminal offence  even if you sign for it! In our case, the lawyer confirmed the "loan" contract my wife signed is null and void. 

 

- The monthly repayments to the loan sharks were made through bank transfers. So we've now got the 3 years statements from my wife bank account that shows we repaid more than the principal amount. The lawyer mentioned that if only cash payment was made, our case would have been more complicated.

 

 - The most important: our house chanote is a Nor Sor 4 . She basically gave the chanote as collateral but didn't sign anything over it. In any case, the lawyer confirmed the followings:

 

        . Loan sharks can't claim ownership of anything just because they have a house chanote. Chanote ownership transfer must be done at the Land Office with an officer overseeing the transaction.

 

        . Unlicensed money lenders cannot attach a mortgage to a house chanote, specially when the contract they made is illegal due to overcharging interest rate (see first point).

 

        . The fact that one of our child is a joint owner on the chanote simply means it's impossible to transfer ownership / sell a house without a Children's Court order.

 

So finally, my lawyer confirmed this is a very common case in Thailand as other posters mentioned and from his experience, this gets resolved through private settlement, without going to court.

 

In our particular case, the lawyer will enter in contact with the lenders to signify them that:

 

     - Their loan contract is illegal.

     - They have no ownership claim on the house.

     - The principal amount was already repaid, including the maximum legal interest rate ( 15% per year)

     - They must return the chanote and stop asking for payments.

     - If they don't agree to the above, we'll go to court and they risk a jail sentence.