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[webfact]

Swiss voters approve tighter gun control, avoid EU clash

 

FILE PHOTO: A rifle with a Swiss flag is pictured during a competition, ahead of a May 19 referendum on proposals to tighten weapon ownership laws in line with EU steps, in Romont, Switzerland May 11, 2019. REUTERS/Denis Balibouse/File Photo

 

ZURICH/GENEVA (Reuters) - Swiss voters agreed by a nearly two-to-one margin on Sunday to adopt tighter gun controls in line with changes to European Union rules, heading off a clash with Brussels.

 

The measure passed in the binding referendum under the Swiss system of direct democracy by a 64-36% margin, provisional final results showed.

 

The restrictions, which apply to non-EU member Switzerland because it is part of Europe's Schengen open-border system, had raised hackles among shooting enthusiasts ahead of the vote.

 

Failure to adopt the rules could have forced Switzerland to leave the passport-free Schengen zone and the Dublin joint system for handling asylum requests.

 

After militants killed scores of people in Paris in 2015, the EU in 2017 toughened laws against purchasing semi-automatic rifles such as the ones used in those attacks and made it easier to track weapons in national databases.

 

The initial EU proposal provoked an outcry because it meant a ban on the Swiss tradition of ex-soldiers keeping their assault rifles.

 

Swiss officials negotiated concessions for veterans and gun enthusiasts who take part in the country's numerous shooting clubs, but any restrictions imported from the EU go too far for right-wing activists concerned about Swiss sovereignty.

 

"To me, the new obligations linked to the possession of guns are not that restrictive, while the risk of not being able to benefit from Schengen's advantages are very real," said one bank employee who gave his name only as Philippe.

 

"It has nothing to do with blackmail, it is just that Switzerland has to align itself with a system to which it participates."

 

Gun rights proponents complained the rules could disarm law-abiding citizens and encroach on Switzerland's heritage and national identity, which includes a well-armed citizenry.

 

(Reporting by Michael Shields and Marina Depetris; Editing by Louise Heavens and Peter Graff)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-05-20

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[TopDeadSenter]

4 minutes ago, webfact said:

After militants killed scores of people in Paris in 2015

How offensive. They were islamic terrorists, not "militants". Next Reuters will be calling them freedom fighters.

 Sorry to see the Swiss being disarmed. Being unable to protect your loved ones and property is a huge step back. 

[topt]

1 hour ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Sorry to see the Swiss being disarmed.

Hardly - 

1 hour ago, webfact said:

the EU in 2017 toughened laws against purchasing semi-automatic rifles 

Leaves multiple other choices for gun owners.

[DoctorG]

Little by little the peasants are being disarmed, leaving only government forces armed to the teeth. Of course, we all trust governments to do the right thing. Don't we?

[geoffbezoz]

Interesting to note this article

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/02/swiss-guns/553448/

 

 

[AsterixThai]

It is interesting to note that 10 hours after the opening of the polls, we had the results.

[grumbleweed]

2 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Being unable to protect your loved ones and property is a huge step back

And I suppose reducing the chances having their loved ones massacred by nutjacks and schools being treated like duck shoots is the way forward.

Ex soldiers were allowed to keep their guns as part of national defence. Shooting people to protect your property is only considered "normal" by people of backward thinking nations

 

Something to chew on

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/02/swiss-guns/553448/

Quote

Another way the two countries differ is in their rates of gun-related deaths. Swiss gun-related death rates are the highest in Europe. 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by grumbleweed

[VocalNeal]

 

3 hours ago, webfact said:

The initial EU proposal provoked an outcry because it meant a ban on the Swiss tradition of ex-soldiers keeping their assault rifles.

 

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Swiss officials negotiated concessions for veterans

 

So in effect the traditional way of life continues?

[geoffbezoz]

7 minutes ago, AsterixThai said:

It is interesting to note that 10 hours after the opening of the polls, we had the results.

I wonder if shots were fired in celebration ?  ????????

[Pesche]

2 hours ago, grumbleweed said:

And I suppose reducing the chances having their loved ones massacred by nutjacks and schools being treated like duck shoots is the way forward.

Ex soldiers were allowed to keep their guns as part of national defence. Shooting people to protect your property is only considered "normal" by people of backward thinking nations

 

Something to chew on

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/02/swiss-guns/553448/

@ grumbleweed:

 

I definitely do not agree to your arguments!
Specially: "Another way the two countries differ is in their rates of gun-related deaths. Swiss gun-related death rates are the highest in Europe."

Your statement is false since you should make a difference between homicide and SUICIDE!
Yes suicide rate is relatively high for such a small country. Swiss people are comparable to Japan where the suicide rate is the highest in the world. True!
And this is due to the pressure of today's living - very similar to Japan!

 

However considering weapon per capita, the amount of homicide compared to the US are ridiculously small!

We had 1 (ONE) "wild shooting" in the last 20 years! US had 30 (THIRTY!) IN ONE YEAR - 2018!
This "wild shooting" was caused by a Swiss who was mentally unstable. It happened, yes.

 

ADDITIONALLY: in the link you've given the statistic is TOTALLY WRONG since it is NOT the Rate of All Gun Deaths per 100,000 People!
 
It is PER YEAR!!!

 

Finally,
Switzerland has adhered to the EU new regulations. It didn't oppose it!
It accepted it!

So do not point the finger on the ONLY neutral country in Europe and mind your business!
You are NOT Swiss, and your opinion is, well, YOUR opinion!

This is mine, and I am a proud Swiss ex Army soldier having my Sturmgewehr and amonition at home since I received it!

We are NEUTRAL and will NEVER attack, interfere nor invade other countries!
 
However we have the right to defend ourselves. The Weapon regulations in Switzerland is part of our culture and is a Citizen's duty.

This is WHY the Swiss Army is the fastest in the world to be ready in case of attack, having 100% of its Army mobilized within 24 hours!

 

https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/306917/umfrage/todesfaelle-aufgrund-von-schusswaffen-in-der-schweiz/

 

BTW

"Shooting people to protect your property is only considered "normal" by people of backward thinking nations" This is USA right?

NOT Switzerland

 

2 hours ago, grumbleweed said:

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, DoctorG said:

Little by little the peasants are being disarmed, leaving only government forces armed to the teeth. Of course, we all trust governments to do the right thing. Don't we?

‘Peasants’.

 

You’ve clearly never been to Switzerland.

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, DoctorG said:

Little by little the peasants are being disarmed, leaving only government forces armed to the teeth.

The "peasants" in this case are the government forces. Switzerland has mandatory military service for all able-bodied male citizens, who are conscripted when they reach the age of majority.

[DoctorG]

54 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

‘Peasants’.

 

You’ve clearly never been to Switzerland.

I have actually.

You can clearly see from the entire post that I was referring to governments in general, and the term peasants was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the general populace (as seen by the elites). But you knew that didn't you?

[Kiwiken]

I am glad at Least the People of Switzerland got to make the decision regarding Firearms ownership. sadly in New Zealand We have single minded Dictators who believe only they know best. We were stripped of the right buy Semi automatic center fire Rifles by act of parliament. with scant regard to Public consultation or imput. Submissions were given 2 days to be submitted but the documents had already been written and scant regard to public submissions was given.

Unlike the USA Firearms ownership was already well regulated.

however there were holes in the legislation which allowed the Australian Nut job to buy restricted magazines.

Had Government done their job properly, And the Police vetted then we would most likely not had the tragedy on the scale we had.

Now by Dictat the government has legislated restriction. Denying Sporting and Recreational shooters their rights. Denying Athletes the right to own the firearms they competed at world level with. And effectively disenfranchising 1000;s of kiwis who spent thousands of $ meeting the tough conditions to own E category firearms without a compensation plan firmly in place.

I commend the Swiss nation for democracy. And lament the death of democracy in my Own Country

Edited May 20, 2019 by Kiwiken

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, DoctorG said:

I have actually.

You can clearly see from the entire post that I was referring to governments in general, and the term peasants was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the general populace (as seen by the elites). But you knew that didn't you?

Right, I’m a mind reader already.

 

You we’re posting hogwash, I and others called you out.

 

 

[DoctorG]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Right, I’m a mind reader already.

 

You we’re posting hogwash, I and others called you out.

 

 

People say to me that Leftists are stupid and only see what they want to see. I say no. no. as I know this chap Chomps who is really intelligent and has good comprehension. 

[VocalNeal]

20 minutes ago, Kiwiken said:

We were stripped of the right buy Semi automatic center fire Rifles by act of parliament. with scant regard to Public consultation or imput.

Am I allowed to ask why any "normal" citizen needs a semi-automatic rifle?

 

Not a good enough shot to kill a deer with a regular single shot hunting rifle?

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, DoctorG said:

People say to me that Leftists are stupid and only see what they want to see. I say no. no. as I know this chap Chomps who is really intelligent and has good comprehension. 

Bless.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

‘Peasants’.

 

You’ve clearly never been to Switzerland.

wrongly interpreted

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

The "peasants" in this case are the government forces. Switzerland has mandatory military service for all able-bodied male citizens, who are conscripted when they reach the age of majority.

and .. wrongly interpreted

[Kiwiken]

1 hour ago, VocalNeal said:

Am I allowed to ask why any "normal" citizen needs a semi-automatic rifle?

 

Not a good enough shot to kill a deer with a regular single shot hunting rifle?

Is that all you think firearms are for . To kill. Personally I like shooting at targets and yes it is a lot more fun with a semi automatic. Do you drive a car? Do you think people need turbo charged hot rods or big motorcycles? Probably not but to the Owners they are a lot of fun. Why does everyone think gun owners only own to hunt. 

[puipuitom]

10 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Sorry to see the Swiss being disarmed. Being unable to protect your loved ones and property is a huge step back. 

That's why in Europe we have so much less murders as in the USA and a police, sho is so frightened, they first give a 5 till even 29 mortal shots into the "thread", see  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[Baerboxer]

8 hours ago, grumbleweed said:

And I suppose reducing the chances having their loved ones massacred by nutjacks and schools being treated like duck shoots is the way forward.

Ex soldiers were allowed to keep their guns as part of national defence. Shooting people to protect your property is only considered "normal" by people of backward thinking nations

 

Something to chew on

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/02/swiss-guns/553448/

 

 

 

Should your property, your life, the lives of your loved ones be threatened by criminals, loonies, terrorists or assorted nutters that seem to be increasing these days, dial 999, 911 or whatever number, and see how it goes.

 

Good luck.

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

I am glad at Least the People of Switzerland got to make the decision regarding Firearms ownership. sadly in New Zealand We have single minded Dictators who believe only they know best. We were stripped of the right buy Semi automatic center fire Rifles by act of parliament. with scant regard to Public consultation or imput. Submissions were given 2 days to be submitted but the documents had already been written and scant regard to public submissions was given.

Unlike the USA Firearms ownership was already well regulated.

however there were holes in the legislation which allowed the Australian Nut job to buy restricted magazines.

Had Government done their job properly, And the Police vetted then we would most likely not had the tragedy on the scale we had.

Now by Dictat the government has legislated restriction. Denying Sporting and Recreational shooters their rights. Denying Athletes the right to own the firearms they competed at world level with. And effectively disenfranchising 1000;s of kiwis who spent thousands of $ meeting the tough conditions to own E category firearms without a compensation plan firmly in place.

I commend the Swiss nation for democracy. And lament the death of democracy in my Own Country

 

I think the rapid implementation of new laws by the NZ government was as much about showing how politically correct they are; and how quick they are to appease one section of the community at the expense of other sections.

 

Maybe a mixture of sentiments, fear of reprisals and copycats, wanting to be seen to act, the chance to push through legislation they've always wanted etc etc.

 

If you look at most Western democracies, we now have tremendous restrictions on what we can have, can do, can say, can write. We all have to fit in with "governments" ideas of how we should behave and think. Maybe Mr. Orwell was more visionary than author after all!

[arithai12]

2 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

Is that all you think firearms are for . To kill. Personally I like shooting at targets and yes it is a lot more fun with a semi automatic. Do you drive a car? Do you think people need turbo charged hot rods or big motorcycles? Probably not but to the Owners they are a lot of fun. Why does everyone think gun owners only own to hunt. 

If you only want to shoot at targets, a gun with plastic or plaint balls should be quite enough.

But you bring up a good example with the motors... indeed some people have underlying psychological issues.

[Chomper Higgot]

35 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I think the rapid implementation of new laws by the NZ government was as much about showing how politically correct they are; and how quick they are to appease one section of the community at the expense of other sections.

 

Maybe a mixture of sentiments, fear of reprisals and copycats, wanting to be seen to act, the chance to push through legislation they've always wanted etc etc.

 

If you look at most Western democracies, we now have tremendous restrictions on what we can have, can do, can say, can write. We all have to fit in with "governments" ideas of how we should behave and think. Maybe Mr. Orwell was more visionary than author after all!

It seems to have evaded you that the citizens of Switzerland opted for these restrictions.

 

How you twist that to your persecution by government complex is a mystery.

[Kiwiken]

2 hours ago, arithai12 said:

If you only want to shoot at targets, a gun with plastic or plaint balls should be quite enough.

But you bring up a good example with the motors... indeed some people have underlying psychological issues.

Yeah BB's don't cut it. Not quite the same when you cant hole a can 

[Kiwiken]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It seems to have evaded you that the citizens of Switzerland opted for these restrictions.

 

How you twist that to your persecution by government complex is a mystery.

The two were handled differently. the Swiss got a democratic vote. 

[DoctorG]

9 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

The two were handled differently. the Swiss got a democratic vote. 

I wonder how they would have voted if they were not being pressured/blackmailed by the EU.

[stevenl]

53 minutes ago, DoctorG said:

I wonder how they would have voted if they were not being pressured/blackmailed by the EU.

Every vote has consequences, here these were clear.