Giving birth to an uncomfortable truth

[webfact]

Giving birth to an uncomfortable truth

By The Nation

 

 

Those outraged that a high-ranking Thai official sought US citizenship for her baby should first ask why she took that decision  

 

A Thai woman has sparked uproar by travelling to the United States to give birth so that her child would receive American citizenship.

 

There were even suggestions that former deputy police spokeswoman, Pol Lt-Colonel Dr Anchulee Phetcharat, should be investigated by both the police and the Medical Council for posting a Facebook message advertising the “legal loophole” in US citizenship law.

 

The director of Police General Hospital where Dr Anchulee works said officials were checking to see whether there are grounds for a full disciplinary probe. Medical Council secretary-general Itthiporn Khanacharoen said his agency was also checking whether Anchulee’s “personal post” had breached medical ethics.

 

Anchulee gave birth to a son earlier this month. She drew criticism after posting a photo of herself pregnant on May 14 with a message inscribed on her belly in Thai. The caption invited interested mothers-to-be to give birth in the US to secure a better future for their child. 

 

But this is not really what the fuss is all about.

 

She swiftly deleted the post, but the debate it triggered was already exploding as Thai netizens reacted with upset and dismay.

 

The US constitution deems anyone born in the country an American citizen. But Thais interested in the case are not debating American law. The red-hot topic is whether it is appropriate for a government civil servant to send such a message.

 

Many believe she offended Thai people’s honour by making such a suggestion. After all, what’s wrong with being born in Thailand?

 

In an ideal world, Dr Anchulee should be able to choose whatever location she wants for the  birth of her child. But we don’t live in a perfect world. The notion of the nation-state demands that we take up a national label as part of our personal identity. A nation-state is administered by bureaucrats. These state workers are often display extreme patriotic loyalty  – partly because they depend on the bureaucracy for personal status and professional advancement. 

 

 As such, when somebody like Anchulee reminds us that the country is less than perfect, Thais and Thai bureaucracy tend to react as if they have been stung.

 

Anchulee may have violated snobbish bureaucratic culture by highlighting the not-so-promising side of the Thai state and society, but did 

she violate protocol?

 

After all, she was not speaking as a police spokesperson but posting as an individual who, like any parent, wants the best for their children.

 

Thai nationalism, like nationalism elsewhere, has long been exploited by public figures and political leaders for their own gains.

 

Too often we take such tribal feelings too far, like when we beat each other up over simple things such as a football match.

 

Instead of going after Anchulee and threatening her with disciplinary action, perhaps we would do better to reflect on our own shortcomings. We could start with a simple question: What’s the problem with giving birth in Thailand.

 

Is it the medical facilities or is it the lack of opportunities for children to grow and develop.

 

After all, if a mid-ranking police officer with a medical degree and a promising career still feels reluctant about raising a child in Thailand, perhaps we need to ask what’s wrong here.

 

Are we doing enough to level the playing field and instil a sense of justice in society? Or are we and our leaders just wrapping ourselves proudly in the Thai flag so we don’t have to address these uncomfortable questions.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/opinion/30369718

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2019-05-21

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[nausea]

As I understand it dual nationality is allowed in Thailand and the US. I did know a girl, though, who had to make choice between Thai and US citizenship at age 18. She went for Thai. I guess that was under antiquated laws. Anyway, my point is not everyone thinks being Thai is such a bad thing. 

[MaxYakov]

Editorial: The US constitution deems anyone born in the country an American citizen. 

 

In 2005, Ireland amended its constitution to become the last country in Europe to abolish unconditional jus soli citizenship, as a direct result of concerns over birth tourism. - Wiki

 

The U.S. should do something to correct the previous interpretations of the 14 Constitutional Amendment to get this practice and birth tourism stopped!

 

But I fear it is too late now, especially with the influx of illegal migrants of voting age - a problem that is even more severe IMHO.

 

Editorial: Many believe she offended Thai people’s honour by making such a suggestion. After all, what’s wrong with being born in Thailand?

 

One can't be a U.S. anchor baby if one is born in Thailand! Next question... ?

 

Editorial: After all, if a mid-ranking police officer with a medical degree and a promising career still feels reluctant about raising a child in Thailand, perhaps we need to ask what’s wrong here.

 

How does the writer know the child will not be raised in Thailand? Is she applying for permanent residency in the U.S. based solely on her child's probable U.S. citizenship?

Editorial: What’s the problem with giving birth in Thailand. [sic]

Is it the medical facilities or is it the lack of opportunities for children to grow and develop.  [sic]

 

Tough questions. Let me think about this for a while and I'll get back to you ...

 

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by MaxYakov

[Fex Bluse]

Article is right.

 

Funny that the Thais (according the the article) are not upset at the lady suggesting law breaking and rather that they are upset at a loss of face.

 

So typical and exactly what anyone needs to know about Thai culture.

[leeneeds]

Anchulee doing what mothers do, 

thinking about Future Forward Parenting.

[YetAnother]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Many believe she offended Thai people’s honour

more paper-thin, insecure thai nationalism

[mok199]

Two words ''Options /choices''..Thailand offers neither.Any educated,freethinking parent who wants their child to ''GROW'' knows Thailand is stuck... IMHO the mother is simply saying , ''Thailand is wonderful but its not the be all, end all , I perfer my child to choose their own future''..

Edited May 20, 2019 by mok199

[mikebell]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

What’s the problem with giving birth in Thailand.

Many kids never see their father who moves on as soon as Morning sickness sets in, leaving mum to cope alone taking any job she can leaving the off-spring in the care of grandparents  That's a big problem.

 

Being born into a poor family like 80% of kids are which limits their diet; their schooling; their opportunities for employment.  That's a few other big problems. 

[Lungstib]

An interesting and unusual article asking Thais to question some of the silly beliefs they hold for no good reason. I doubt they will but making them look at it is good.

[George Bowman]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Or are we and our leaders just wrapping ourselves proudly in the Thai flag so we don’t have to address these uncomfortable questions.

Years ago my Thai wife hounded me for months to get our daughter's American passport done. Why? She said "A person has more choices."

 

Having said that, I grew up in America and have lived in Thailand for a little over two decades. Unfortunately, even with all this experience I am not an expert about either country. But here is one observation that I have made. I often see Thai people walking around with t-shirts that display American symbols of some sort. And I don't see many Thais wearing t-shirts representing Thailand...

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by missoura

[PatOngo]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Or are we and our leaders just wrapping ourselves proudly in the Thai flag so we don’t have to address these uncomfortable questions.

Yes, You are!.....on so many levels!

[holy cow cm]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Many believe she offended Thai people’s honour by making such a suggestion. After all, what’s wrong with being born in Thailand?

The illiterate ones and the ones in the junta could be. True honor in Thailand? Not going to go there.

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Anchulee may have violated snobbish bureaucratic culture by highlighting the not-so-promising side of the Thai state and society, but did 

she violate protocol?

I bet she put some sour grapes in their 1000 dollar wine for sure!

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Thai nationalism, like nationalism elsewhere, has long been exploited by public figures and political leaders for their own gains.

This is what Thailand is all about. Nationalism for the Junta and the Elite. Certainly does not seems it is for the general citizens.

2 hours ago, webfact said:

After all, if a mid-ranking police officer with a medical degree and a promising career still feels reluctant about raising a child in Thailand, perhaps we need to ask what’s wrong here.

 

Yeah, USA has many things that are great and many down falls as well. But at least they are genuine for who is born on their soil from any country. But if the intention was to fool the system then the kid(s) should not be granted citizenship. USA should actually match each countries behavior to how the react to other countries procedures for having babies on their soil to non citizens. Thailand should be not allowed citizenship in the USA. Period!
 

[MaxYakov]

21 minutes ago, missoura said:

Years ago my Thai wife hounded me for months to get our daughter's American passport done. Why? She said "A person has more choices."

 

Having said that, I grew up in America and have lived in Thailand for a little over two decades. Unfortunately, even with all this experience I am not an expert about either country. But here is one observation that I have made. I often see Thai people walking around with t-shirts that display American symbols of some sort. And I don't see many Thais wearing t-shirts representing Thailand...

 

I guess you missed the thousands wearing "Bike for Dad" shirts, eh? I've certainly seen a lot more Thai flag representations on shirts than U.S. flag representations. But maybe that's just me.

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by MaxYakov

[chainarong]

Same thing happened in H.K. the mainland Chinese started coming over as tourists , then dropping ankle bitters, it became such a problem that the locals had a struggle getting a bed to drop their own , basically because of the privilege abuse ,  H.K. had to ban anyone from the mainland traveling, that were preggers or refused admission into the matty ward and sent back home.

Edited May 21, 2019 by chainarong

[wwest5829]

36 minutes ago, PatOngo said:

Yes, You are!.....on so many levels!

Same as done by many in the USA. Thinking and questioning the way things are is too much for many people in all nationalities.

[Curt1591]

2 hours ago, nausea said:

As I understand it dual nationality is allowed in Thailand and the US. I did know a girl, though, who had to make choice between Thai and US citizenship at age 18. She went for Thai. I guess that was under antiquated laws. Anyway, my point is not everyone thinks being Thai is such a bad thing. 

"Dual citizenship" isn't really "legal" in the States. It's more of a "don't ask - don't tell" proposition. 

When a foreign national takes the oath of citizenship, part of that oath states that they hold hold allegiance a foreign entity:

 

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion, so help me God.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Curt1591

[VocalNeal]

58 minutes ago, missoura said:

I often see Thai people walking around with t-shirts that display American symbols of some sort.

I think more Thais wear Premier League shirts that one with American symbols?

 

Just sayin..... 

[connda]

We foreign expats in Thailand are continuously under fire for gaming the immigration system making each and everyone of us 'potential criminals' who must be watched, monitored, and scrutinized constantly.

Then a Thai government worker goes to the US and games US immigration law by having an 'anchor baby.'  

Tell me.  What's wrong with this picture?  

 

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by connda

[PatOngo]

Giving birth to an uncomfortable truth

??? I think the truth was aborted long ago!

[maxcorrigan]

3 hours ago, missoura said:

Years ago my Thai wife hounded me for months to get our daughter's American passport done. Why? She said "A person has more choices."

 

Having said that, I grew up in America and have lived in Thailand for a little over two decades. Unfortunately, even with all this experience I am not an expert about either country. But here is one observation that I have made. I often see Thai people walking around with t-shirts that display American symbols of some sort. And I don't see many Thais wearing t-shirts representing Thailand...

 

I have seen many more Union Jack t shirts than US ones, does'nt mean anything, other than the Thais like the design and don't care or know the origins! 

[Fex Bluse]

2 hours ago, connda said:

We foreign expats in Thailand are continuously under fire for gaming the immigration system making each and everyone of us 'potential criminals' who must be watched, monitored, and scrutinized constantly.

Then a Thai government worker goes to the US and games US immigration law by having an 'anchor baby.'  

Tell me.  What's wrong with this picture?  

 

 

What's most prominently wrong about it is that the Thais see it as perfectly acceptable. The only thing they don't like is any loss of face resulting from the event. 

 

Morally bankrupt 

[ilms]

The merits of allowing birthright citizenship are certainly open to debate, but what really burns me up is that instead of just discreetly giving birth to her child in the US,  this idiot went and made a publicity stunt out of it. I'm from the US and my Thai wife has been rejected for a tourist visa there. We have a child together, sufficient funds, a life here in Thailand with no intention to emigrate to the US, no criminal background, etc. but we still haven't managed  to overcome the suspicions of whatever bureaucrat is reviewing the applications. I can't imagine getting a visa is going to get any easier after this moronic stunt.

 

 

 

[zydeco]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

he notion of the nation-state demands that we take up a national label as part of our personal identity.

The US ceased being a nation-state in the 1980s following Reagan's illegal alien amnesty in 1986. Now, we're merely a geographic entity that processes people for employment by multinational corporations and their security/enforcement division--formerly known as the US armed forces.

 

What this woman is guilty of is beyond me. Mexico has a higher GDP and standard of living than Thailand. Yet the Border Patrol, at least in the past, used to routinely allow pregnant Mexicans in ambulances to pass through unhindered to US hospitals to deliver their child at a cost to US taxpayers, also giving the child US citizenship and a wide variety of welfare benefits indirectly to the entire Mexican family.

 

As for the Thai woman her child. It doesn't look like they'll need welfare. They can cash in on affirmative action admissions and hiring policies. But one other thing: for the rest of his life, the kid will be a US taxpaying entity. No matter where he goes or where he lives, he will owe.

[Uptooyoo]

This is why America needs to revise the constitution. No other country, Thailand included, would allow this abuse. China and Mexico are the worst offenders. Mexicans sneak across the border to give birth. The Chinese have purchased houses in Southern California and sell "birther tours" to pregnant Chinese women. They fly over, hide until ready, then rush to the emergency room at the last minute where they get free medical care paid for by the U.S. taxpayer. And for being such honorable tourists, they get all the rights and privileges of U.S. citizenship. Imagine foreigners doing this in Thailand or your country. 

Attempts to revise the constitution or enforce immigration law are undone by liberal Democrats crying racism or Xenophobia. When in reality, Trump, with all his flaws, is trying to uphold the fundamental responsibility of the Federal Government: to maintain the U.S. as a sovereign nation defined by borders and ruled by law. No different than any other country that wishes to remain intact.

I can't even own a house in Thailand, and I'm legally here!

 

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Uptooyoo
clarification

[trainman34014]

6 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

I guess you missed the thousands wearing "Bike for Dad" shirts, eh? I've certainly seen a lot more Thai flag representations on shirts than U.S. flag representations. But maybe that's just me.

 

 

 

Indeed; i've seen more Union Jacks than American flags !

[jvs]

What is all the fuzz about?

Really rich Thai people have been sending their kids

abroad for (real) education for ages.

They gain face that way!!Yes i know ,amazing Thailand.

[mercman24]

and that is the reason i know of 2 female friends (make that 3)  who have latched onto a gullible middle aged  UK guy to marry, (no love ) well maybe on his part he he,   so they can take their son to the UK for an English education. one had done this before, (lived in Gloucester) wrong choice,  married a young guy, turned out to be a jobless waster. so she came back to Thailand, she is off again soon, best of luck i say. looking out for their sons future.

[unblocktheplanet]

Good on her! Our next generation is going to face tighter conditions. It will help to have a choice. Can't have too many passports!

[djayz]

2 hours ago, mercman24 said:

she is off again soon, best of luck i say. looking out for their sons future.

She can't provide her own children with a future (either too lazy to get up off her ar$e or too stupid to find a job) so she uses some guillable fool to provide her rug rats with opportunities and you wish her good luck!?! That's twisted.