All shook up: Brexit Party's Nigel Farage doused with milkshake on campaign

[aright]

37 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Despite certain Brexiteers attempts to prove that only 'left wing remoaners' throw things at politicians, the truth is somewhat different.

 

As Egg on your face – politicians under attack shows, this form of protest has been going on for decades, with both left and right wing politicians being the target.

 

Whilst I don't condone such activity, whoever the target is, surely it is better to be egged or milkshaken than murdered?

 

All serving British MPs who have been murdered in office in the last 100 years, apart from Jo Cox, were Tories or Ulster Unionists murdered by the IRA, INLA or PIRA. (Source)

 

Jo Cox was a Labour MP murdered by the ultra right wing, white supremacist supporter Thomas Mair.

 

How anyone can place Farage or any other politician who has had eggs or a milkshake thrown at them in the same category as these victims, and the other victims of terrorism whether killed or injured, is beyond me.

No! It is better to be neithered. Egged, milkshaked, punched, murdered is  aggravated assault (intentional harm inflicted by one person on another) and covered by a variety of assault laws. The law determines the severity of the punishment on the basis of the severity of the offence and imo that's as it should be. It would be wrong to have different degrees of assault but right to have different degrees of punishment. I think that's the way at the moment, murder attracts far greater consequences than a punch in the pub but they are both assault  

 

[CharlieH]

Troll/derogatory remark and subsequent response removed.

[7by7]

9 minutes ago, aright said:

No! It is better to be neithered.

Quite, but having an egg or milkshake thrown at one is not the same as being blown up, stabbed or shot!

[aright]

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Quite, but having an egg or milkshake thrown at one is not the same as being blown up, stabbed or shot!

I agree, of course it's not the same, but none of those events are excusable either...…...are they?

[7by7]

5 minutes ago, aright said:

I agree, of course it's not the same, but none of those events are excusable either...…...are they?

I refer you to my original comment

 

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Whilst I don't condone such activity, whoever the target is,

 

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Quite, but having an egg or milkshake thrown at one is not the same as being blown up, stabbed or shot!

It's identical in the eyes of a tactical firearms officer in the seconds that he has in which to decide whether an assailant or the person he is assigned to protect dies.

[aright]

Who do you think you are kidding Mr Juncker

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DPn0O2PRpD0

 

[CG1 Blue]

On 5/22/2019 at 11:45 AM, tebee said:

this as aged well hasn't it ? project fear was not all on the remain side 

 

 

 

Didn't EU rules prevent our government from bailing out British Steel last week? 

 

[JamJar]

On 5/20/2019 at 11:34 PM, baansgr said:

Lefties at it again....think and do as we say or you are a fascist, racist bigot

 

Do you seriously still believe in this person? https://twitter.com/i/status/1132229042516692993

 

If he had any integrity, he would refuse his MEP salary or at least donate it to charity. The man has no integrity at all.

 

You are clearly attempting to polarise and divide opinion by writing 'lefties', instead of simply looking at the facts and making an informed decision.

 

After all of these years, I have no idea of the benefits that Brexit would bring. Do you?

 

It's easy to shout meaningless slogans such as "taking back our borders". But the reality is quite different.

Most of the Brexiteer leaders don't appear to have a clue as to how to run the country. look at the Brexit Secretary's remarks;

 

"We are, and I hadn't quite understood the full extent of this, but if you look at the UK and if you look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing"

 

 

It is frightening to think that almost none of the people involved have a clue.

 

Nigel Farage; "If Brexit is a disaster, I will go to live abroad...." These are facts.

 

We all want what is best for the country, so do you really want clueless and irresponsible idiots gambling with our lives?

We've already taken a huge hit on the Pound, with many of us suffering as a result, with no apparent benefit to the general population.

Of course a wealthy few can benefit.

 

So please, don't refer to anyone who would prefer an intelligent debate as to what is currently occuring, as a 'leftie'. It weakens your argument, making you appear an extremist. Are you?

 

I think the whole thing is a knee jerk reaction to the Syrian immigration and fear of terrorism, rather than any economic benefit to the country. What do you think?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JamJar]

23 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Didn't EU rules prevent our government from bailing out British Steel last week? 

 

 

Even if we bailed it out, what then? If it is no longer competitive, we would have to keep on throwing money at it or allow it to fail at a later date or introduce tariffs to prevent cheap steel from China/ USA et all. Protectionism.

 

If that occurs, perhaps other countries will do the same to us. 

 

Has anyone explained to us the possible results of such actions? This is the point. The country being divided not because there is the possibility of the U.K becoming great again, but because of false statemnts being made by certain individuals.

 

If politicians were bound to tell the truth, perhaps you wouldn't been quite as keen on Brexit. But publish the evidence and projections and let the people decide on the facts, not lies and deceit.

 

[Basil B]

51 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Didn't EU rules prevent our government from bailing out British Steel last week? 

 

Would not have needed to be bailed out had it not been for the mess that Brexit has caused.

 

As for trade deals, most countries want to sell us their steel and the ones that want to buy can only pay with Toytown IOU's.

[aright]

21 minutes ago, JamJar said:

 

Even if we bailed it out, what then? If it is no longer competitive, we would have to keep on throwing money at it or allow it to fail at a later date or introduce tariffs to prevent cheap steel from China/ USA et all. Protectionism.

 

If that occurs, perhaps other countries will do the same to us. 

 

Has anyone explained to us the possible results of such actions? This is the point. The country being divided not because there is the possibility of the U.K becoming great again, but because of false statemnts being made by certain individuals.

 

If politicians were bound to tell the truth, perhaps you wouldn't been quite as keen on Brexit. But publish the evidence and projections and let the people decide on the facts, not lies and deceit.

 

What is the point in closing down an industry which has 4000 direct workers and 20000 indirect workers resulting in astronomical benefit payments and resultant social problems. Why not do what India and Australia are considering doing which is to mandate that domestic steel must be used for UK projects. In this way people maintain their jobs albeit that the costs may  be marginally higher. Maintaining steel production in our country is important for defence, buildings, ships automobiles, machines etc. Once lost it won't come back.

[bendejo]

On 5/22/2019 at 3:45 AM, tebee said:

this as aged well hasn't it ? project fear was not all on the remain side 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this post.

In the US the claim by DT was that tariffs will help the US metals industries.

The stock exchange prices of the two largest in this industry, Alcoa (symbol AA) and US Steel Corp (symbol X) were around $53 and $43 respectively early last year when the tariffs were enacted; they are now $23 and $13.  These two guys seem to be hell-bent on destroying their own countries, all the while loudly proclaiming their own patriotism.  Someone may even get the impression they are being advised by the same guy...

 

And let's not forget the lies and tactics ol' Nigel used in the initial referendum.  Eg once it was over an interviewer asked him about that claim that the EU was costing the UK billions of pounds per day, announced on the side of that infamous bus, and he replied, stoically, "that was not true."  For me, the everything he says should be followed by "that is not true."

 

To top it off, the US is now allowing Rusal, a Russian company, to build a steel plant in Kentucky, the home state of the guy who runs the US Senate like his own private puppet show.  The louder the exclamation of patriotism, the bigger the scoundrel.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2019 by bendejo

[JamJar]

4 minutes ago, aright said:

What is the point in closing down an industry which has 4000 direct workers and 20000 indirect workers resulting in astronomical benefit payments and resultant social problems. Why not do what India and Australia are considering doing which is to mandate that domestic steel must be used for UK projects. In this way people maintain their jobs albeit that the costs may  be marginally higher. Maintaining steel production in our country is important for defence, buildings, ships automobiles, machines etc. Once lost it won't come back.

 

Interesting that you write 'considering'. I only know of Australia doing it on a small scale with specialised steel for military equipment.

 

But getting back to Farage and Brexit, he tries to blame the EU for everything, disingenuously. The problem is that some people believe him without question.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1130501/British-steel-Nigel-Farage-Brexit-Party-EU-Brexit-insolvency-liquidation

 

The truth is always more complicated. BS didn't expect to have to pay the EU Emissions Trading System bill, as they expected that we would be outside the EU by the March deadline.

 

The Leavers will never blame themselves for not thinking the thing through before the vote. So the whole thing is an utter shambles, as the negotiations all came as a bit of a shock to them.

They expected to have the EU over a barrel and instead came away with their tail between their legs. A national embarrassment.

 

So it's not about being for or against Brexit, but a real discussion of what is best for the country and how to move forward. 

We cannot do that divided. Calling each other names such as left wing or right wing in an attempt to demonise each other and lessen the impact of our beliefs.

 

Democracy shouldn't be based on lies and deceit, but by letting the people decide on the facts. The problem is that they try to keep the facts hidden or they simply lie.

 

For instance the £350,000,000 a week claim by Boris, that Therese May tried to deflect by saying that more money would go to the NHS...without revealing that it had nothing to do with Brexit; 

 

http://players.brightcove.net/2540076170001/B1Hli6KCG_default/index.html?videoId=5578641766001#t=23s'

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-slapped-down-statistics-11188704

 

https://fullfact.org/health/whos-paying-20-billion-nhs/

 

I care about my country, so certainly will not go down partisan line of left or right.

 

Tell the truth and let us decide. Don't try to force our hand with lies.

 

 

 

 

 

[JamJar]

It's time to stop the demonisation. The people who want to leave aren't evil, nor are the people who want to remain. Neither is the EU. 

 

In fact the government opposed scrapping a regulation that would allow the imposition of higher duties on Chinese steel, because it would introduce higher costs to British industry.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/10/david-cameron-accused-failing-uk-steel-industry-blocking-eu-lesser-duty-proposal

 

If it were all so simple, everything would have been done and dusted years ago. So let's stop the infighting and find out what is really going on.

 

British Steel Ltd? It has only been in existence since 2016. It is made to sound like a great British company when in fact it was merged with a Dutch company in 1999 and later acquired by an Indian company who later divested themselves of it to Greybull Capital.

 

The government can bail them out by giving them a loan, but in the end, it is a private company. I'm not sure we would be too pleased at our tax money bailing out private companies.

 

So is the answer nationalisation?

 

Lets not simplify everything to left and right.

 

 

 

 

[observer90210]

sack all his steroid pumped-ear piece stuck-black suit-secret service-wannabee, security bums and make them work as museum guards at the Tower,  at most !!......because, what if it was not milkshake but say something more dangerous or lethal that was thrown ?

Edited May 25, 2019 by observer90210

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, JamJar said:

Even if we bailed it out, what then? If it is no longer competitive, we would have to keep on throwing money at it or allow it to fail at a later date or introduce tariffs to prevent cheap steel from China/ USA et all. Protectionism.

We can't put tariffs on steel from other countries, because being in the Customs Union prohibits that. 

Personally I think the steel industry is worth protecting and subsidising. Even making it compulsory to use UK produced steel for major public projects. Whole communities rely on the steel industry.

The steel industry is cyclical, so it's quite likely the UK steel industry could become more competitive in the future. If we lose it that's another nail in the coffin for the UK's future manufacturing prospects. 

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, bendejo said:

 

Thanks for this post.

In the US the claim by DT was that tariffs will help the US metals industries.

The stock exchange prices of the two largest in this industry, Alcoa (symbol AA) and US Steel Corp (symbol X) were around $53 and $43 respectively early last year when the tariffs were enacted; they are now $23 and $13.  These two guys seem to be hell-bent on destroying their own countries, all the while loudly proclaiming their own patriotism.  Someone may even get the impression they are being advised by the same guy...

 

And let's not forget the lies and tactics ol' Nigel used in the initial referendum.  Eg once it was over an interviewer asked him about that claim that the EU was costing the UK billions of pounds per day, announced on the side of that infamous bus, and he replied, stoically, "that was not true."  For me, the everything he says should be followed by "that is not true."

 

To top it off, the US is now allowing Rusal, a Russian company, to build a steel plant in Kentucky, the home state of the guy who runs the US Senate like his own private puppet show.  The louder the exclamation of patriotism, the bigger the scoundrel.

 

 

Soviet patriotism.

[JamJar]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

We can't put tariffs on steel from other countries, because being in the Customs Union prohibits that. 

Personally I think the steel industry is worth protecting and subsidising. Even making it compulsory to use UK produced steel for major public projects. Whole communities rely on the steel industry.

The steel industry is cyclical, so it's quite likely the UK steel industry could become more competitive in the future. If we lose it that's another nail in the coffin for the UK's future manufacturing prospects. 

 

 

Actually not. We just have to agree to raise tariffs. The U.K government decided against it.

 

I have no argument against keeping people in work. But even if there was no impediment to subsidies or nationalisation, there will always be people arguing against it.

 

In fact Nigel Farage stated that he doesn't believe in protectionism. So raising tariffs wouldn't be on the cards anyway...if one could believe him.

 

Like everything there are good and bad sides to being part of the EU. So there should be more education as to what our membership of the EU entails. Even those supposedly representing us don't seem to have a clue.

 

This should have all been done before the referendum. This is what is causing the polarisation. That is because many people feel that the result was based on lies and misinformation.

 

Worse, if you are a Leaver, you are branded a racist. A Remainer, a lefty or worse.  Leaving both sides frustrated.

 

The referendum was a travesty and did the inherently fair British people a disservice.

 

 

 

[Rimmer]

A troll post has been removed

[dick dasterdly]

Why do I rarely see these obnoxious posts that need removing - whilst frequently seeing obnoxious posts that SHOULD be removed, but aren't???

 

I can only assume it's 'cos leavers are less likely to report posts that they don't like?

[nauseus]

16 hours ago, JamJar said:

 

Do you seriously still believe in this person? https://twitter.com/i/status/1132229042516692993

 

If he had any integrity, he would refuse his MEP salary or at least donate it to charity. The man has no integrity at all.

 

You are clearly attempting to polarise and divide opinion by writing 'lefties', instead of simply looking at the facts and making an informed decision.

 

After all of these years, I have no idea of the benefits that Brexit would bring. Do you?

 

It's easy to shout meaningless slogans such as "taking back our borders". But the reality is quite different.

Most of the Brexiteer leaders don't appear to have a clue as to how to run the country. look at the Brexit Secretary's remarks;

 

"We are, and I hadn't quite understood the full extent of this, but if you look at the UK and if you look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing"

 

 

It is frightening to think that almost none of the people involved have a clue.

 

Nigel Farage; "If Brexit is a disaster, I will go to live abroad...." These are facts.

 

We all want what is best for the country, so do you really want clueless and irresponsible idiots gambling with our lives?

We've already taken a huge hit on the Pound, with many of us suffering as a result, with no apparent benefit to the general population.

Of course a wealthy few can benefit.

 

So please, don't refer to anyone who would prefer an intelligent debate as to what is currently occuring, as a 'leftie'. It weakens your argument, making you appear an extremist. Are you?

 

I think the whole thing is a knee jerk reaction to the Syrian immigration and fear of terrorism, rather than any economic benefit to the country. What do you think?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the whole thing goes back a long way further than you realize.

[nauseus]

16 hours ago, JamJar said:

 

Even if we bailed it out, what then? If it is no longer competitive, we would have to keep on throwing money at it or allow it to fail at a later date or introduce tariffs to prevent cheap steel from China/ USA et all. Protectionism.

 

If that occurs, perhaps other countries will do the same to us. 

 

Has anyone explained to us the possible results of such actions? This is the point. The country being divided not because there is the possibility of the U.K becoming great again, but because of false statemnts being made by certain individuals.

 

If politicians were bound to tell the truth, perhaps you wouldn't been quite as keen on Brexit. But publish the evidence and projections and let the people decide on the facts, not lies and deceit.

 

You mean like in 1975?

[Thakkar]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Why do I rarely see these obnoxious posts that need removing - whilst frequently seeing obnoxious posts that SHOULD be removed, but aren't???

 

I can only assume it's 'cos leavers are less likely to report posts that they don't like?

 

This reminds me of a Psychologist joke: confirmation bias is exactly what you think it is.

[aright]

14 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

We can't put tariffs on steel from other countries, because being in the Customs Union prohibits that. 

Personally I think the steel industry is worth protecting and subsidising. Even making it compulsory to use UK produced steel for major public projects. Whole communities rely on the steel industry.

The steel industry is cyclical, so it's quite likely the UK steel industry could become more competitive in the future. If we lose it that's another nail in the coffin for the UK's future manufacturing prospects. 

Indirectly you make another reason for leaving the EU. Current EU legislation dictates that  we need the permission of the EU to financially help struggling UK businesses. Wouldn't it be great if we could take back legislative control and make our own rules for example unashamedly being able to financially support British Steel workers. 

 

 

 

[JamJar]

9 hours ago, aright said:

Indirectly you make another reason for leaving the EU. Current EU legislation dictates that  we need the permission of the EU to financially help struggling UK businesses. Wouldn't it be great if we could take back legislative control and make our own rules for example unashamedly being able to financially support British Steel workers. 

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, you are wrong and this is part of the point. That people make decisions based on misinformation.

In fact, you can get around it by making a loan to the company, which is exactly what occurred recently. A £120,000,000 loan from the British taxpayers.

https://www.ft.com/content/1d8ffaaa-7d6d-11e9-81d2-f785092ab560

 

But they needed more and the government refused. Not the EU, but Her Majesty's government.

 

As to blaming the EU, look at the discussion between Nigel Farage and Vince Cable on the matter recently; https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1130501/British-steel-Nigel-Farage-Brexit-Party-EU-Brexit-insolvency-liquidation

 

So this is my point. Too much misinformation by those with an agenda. Dividing the people and making us weak.

 

[JamJar]

To confirm what I have been writing;

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/26/brexit-will-not-save-troubled-steel-industry-says-trade-body

 

Quote

The trade body for steelmakers has rubbished claims that British Steel could be more easily saved if the UK were outside the European Union and warned that the turmoil of a no-deal Brexit could further damage the industry....

 

[AlexRich]

12 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Why do I rarely see these obnoxious posts that need removing - whilst frequently seeing obnoxious posts that SHOULD be removed, but aren't???

 

I can only assume it's 'cos leavers are less likely to report posts that they don't like?

It’s quite possible that no one reported anything? It was just picked up on a review of posts. By the sound of it you think that leavers obnoxious posts are being removed? Whereas remainer objective critiques are not?

[aright]

48 minutes ago, JamJar said:

 

 

Unfortunately, you are wrong and this is part of the point. That people make decisions based on misinformation.

In fact, you can get around it by making a loan to the company, which is exactly what occurred recently. A £120,000,000 loan from the British taxpayers.

https://www.ft.com/content/1d8ffaaa-7d6d-11e9-81d2-f785092ab560

 

But they needed more and the government refused. Not the EU, but Her Majesty's government.

 

As to blaming the EU, look at the discussion between Nigel Farage and Vince Cable on the matter recently; https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1130501/British-steel-Nigel-Farage-Brexit-Party-EU-Brexit-insolvency-liquidation

 

So this is my point. Too much misinformation by those with an agenda. Dividing the people and making us weak.

 

The collapse of British Steel was as a result of Greybull Capital, the private equity firm who hold the majority of their assets.

Greybull is run by foreign nationals and has a workforce of 5. As asset strippers they hold global assets including a large stake in British Steel through an opaque offshore vehicle registered in the tax haven of Jersey. Over the years they have taken £3 million pa  in management fees and interest (almost 10%) on loans that they themselves issued through Jersey.

Greybull is run by Marc Meyohas (French I think) and Daniel Goldstein (American) as a Limited Liability Partnership, a complex structure which makes it impossible to establish how much it makes in profits and pays the principles. What we do know however is they are astronomically wealthy.

This is Vulture Capitalism at its worst.

Last week Greybull asked the government to dole out £75 million in addition to a previous £120 million to prevent it's investment in British Steel from going under.

The Government refused because the money would have come straight out of the pockets of British taxpayers with no guarantee of a return on investment. The Government also knew that Greybull Capital also oversaw the demise of Comet and Monarch.

I have no agenda beyond looking for a solution to save British Steel and I have never claimed their problems are a result of Brexit . Steel is a global problem. I have always been opposed to nationalizing British Industries but because of the importance I place on a British steel industry I am having serious thoughts about it.

As for misinformation...………………………………………..

   

 

 

[JamJar]

1 hour ago, aright said:

The collapse of British Steel was as a result of Greybull Capital, the private equity firm who hold the majority of their assets.

Greybull is run by foreign nationals and has a workforce of 5. As asset strippers they hold global assets including a large stake in British Steel through an opaque offshore vehicle registered in the tax haven of Jersey. Over the years they have taken £3 million pa  in management fees and interest (almost 10%) on loans that they themselves issued through Jersey.

Greybull is run by Marc Meyohas (French I think) and Daniel Goldstein (American) as a Limited Liability Partnership, a complex structure which makes it impossible to establish how much it makes in profits and pays the principles. What we do know however is they are astronomically wealthy.

This is Vulture Capitalism at its worst.

Last week Greybull asked the government to dole out £75 million in addition to a previous £120 million to prevent it's investment in British Steel from going under.

The Government refused because the money would have come straight out of the pockets of British taxpayers with no guarantee of a return on investment. The Government also knew that Greybull Capital also oversaw the demise of Comet and Monarch.

I have no agenda beyond looking for a solution to save British Steel and I have never claimed their problems are a result of Brexit . Steel is a global problem. I have always been opposed to nationalizing British Industries but because of the importance I place on a British steel industry I am having serious thoughts about it.

As for misinformation...………………………………………..

   

 

 

 

What misinformation?

 

I'm not sure if Greybull are to blame. You'll find that many have positive things to say about them.

Everyone looks for a scapegoat in times like these, but it's quite likely to be a combination of factors.

They themselves suggest that they lost customers because of the uncertainty over Brexit and the what Gareth Stace states goes some way to confirm that point of view.

 

I haven't suggested that you have an agenda. In fact, I have made it clear that there is more that connects us than divides us. But there are some trying to drive a wedge betwixt us for perhaps political purpose.

None of us wants to see people who want to work out of work and we all want quality British manufacturing to thrive. It's not about Remain or Leave.