3 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I personally think that the Brexit party is being swept along by protest voters, both leave and remain. Parties have no power. Look at what is happening between the USA and China, do you think that Trump is President despite losing the popular vote by chance ? Or because the real power in the world decided it wanted the chaos, wanted China curtailed and with it America.

You make an interesting point.

 

Now who do you think is behind this decision to sow chaos?

15 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You make an interesting point.

 

Now who do you think is behind this decision to sow chaos?

Those with real money and power. I can imagine that an all too successful USA, China, EU, would be a hindrance to manipulation, hence Trump, trade wars and Brexit all coming together at more or less the same time, chaos is good for their business.

4 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Those with real money and power. I can imagine that an all too successful USA, China, EU, would be a hindrance to manipulation, hence Trump, trade wars and Brexit all coming together at more or less the same time, chaos is good for their business.

Agree, and be assured non of this is for the benefit of the ordinary people who voted for Trump or Brexit. 

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Agree, and be assured non of this is for the benefit of the ordinary people who voted for Trump or Brexit. 

People are collateral damage, any benefits would be coincidental. Remember that old quote,  "If elections changed anything they would have been forbidden" 

9 hours ago, nkg said:

 

And yet I don't see similar personal attacks on Vince Cable or Jeremy Corbyn in this thread. I'm not even suggesting that it's limited to this forum. Here's a piece you will enjoy from the Guardian - basically a series of attacks on you-know-who the day before an election:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/22/nigel-farage-scandals-rivals-brexit-party-european-elections

 

Britain is divided in two, and the Remainers aren't doing a very good job of persuading Leavers to change their minds ...

 

 

Trying to change Leaver minds, diehards, is like trying to persuade someone to change their religion ... even if they get their hard Brexit any negative fall out from that will be blamed on others, not on their decision. 

 

 

12 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

"insults, wild accusations, and conspiracies"

 

What you've essentially said is that having read these threads it's the Remain supporters that are engaged in the above ... you being an objective and neutral observer. My point is a simple one, you are either not a very skilled observer or you are not as objective and neutral as you make yourself out to be. You are not holding yourself to the same high standard that you expect of others.

 

 

 

I think you have proven “nkg” point. Well done.

54 minutes ago, Thairealist said:

 

I think you have proven “nkg” point. Well done.

Yes, I agree well done. The good thing, perhaps a bad thing, about being a hypocrite is you get to keep your values. 

Edited May 24, 20197 yr by aright

Mrs May has just resigned and will leave on June 7. A very dignified speech I thought.

4 minutes ago, aright said:

Mrs May has just resigned and will leave on June 7. A very dignified speech I thought.

She just had to hang on to hold Donald's hand one last time!

Mrs May has just resigned and will leave on June 7. A very dignified speech I thought.

Imho..who cares..she wanted a damage controlled Brexit
Read Nick Timothy..former right hand man!!

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5 hours ago, evadgib said:

More condescension & nothing in support of your earlier claim?

My point here is very clear. Thank you for helping me expose your agenda to the rest of the board.

Nonsensical. CH's requests are perfectly valid. Orwellian propaganda utilised by the right of centre has become the norm.

Edited May 24, 20197 yr by simple1

1 hour ago, Thairealist said:

 

I think you have proven “nkg” point. Well done.

His point was patently false ... and that was what was proved. 

1 hour ago, aright said:

Yes, I agree well done. The good thing, perhaps a bad thing, about being a hypocrite is you get to keep your values. 

I think you’re the resident hypocrite on this thread, with no values to speak of.

reported post removed.

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

55 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Nonsensical. CH's requests are perfectly valid. Orwellian propaganda utilised by the right of centre has become the norm.

Could you not have expressed yourself without the flag of convenience who's only purpose is to create the illusion that one side is right while the others (Majority/Clean Sweep yesterday/Toppled the PM today) are somehow wrong....? 

 

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

His point was patently false ... and that was what was proved. 

 

Oh really? I don't recall making any "false point". The idea that my "point" was "proved to be false" is baffling. You haven't even specified which of my points you were talking about.

 

As far as I am concerned, the main thrust of what I was saying was that I was disappointed with the aggressive nature of the discussion coming from some of the Remain supporters on this thread. I am neither a Remain nor a Leave supporter, and have never posted on a Brexit thread until yesterday.

 

Ironically, I see a Remain supporter calling a Leave supporter "a resident hypocrite on this thread, with no values" on this thread. These kind of aggressive personal attacks prove my point for me.

Edited May 24, 20197 yr by nkg
clarity

8 minutes ago, nkg said:

 

Oh really? I don't recall making any "false point". The idea that my "point" was "proved to be false" is baffling. You haven't even specified which of my points you were talking about.

 

As far as I am concerned, the main thrust of what I was saying was that I was disappointed with the aggressive nature of the discussion coming from some of the Remain supporters on this thread. I am neither a Remain nor a Leave supporter, and have never posted on a Brexit thread until yesterday.

 

Ironically, I see a Remain supporter calling a Leave supporter "a resident hypocrite on this thread, with no values" on this thread. These kind of aggressive personal attacks prove my point for me.

 

You stated that you were a neutral observer, providing an objective opinion. And your opinion was that insults, personal attacks and conspiracies were coming from those that support the Remain cause. That is patently false. And I gave you several examples of the sort of language used on here by those who take the opposite view. Language that you appeared to have missed? My point was valid ... you are either not as neutral as you state or you are woeful in your judgement of these threads. 

 

 

 

17 hours ago, nkg said:

 

I don't support either "team", but it is interesting to see the kind of language being used by Remain supporters on these threads. Insults, wild accusations and conspiracies. Basically the intellectual equivalent of people snarling and spitting at anybody who disagrees with their opinion.

 

The Remain team are supposed to be made up of the people who are morally right. People who welcome immigrants and free trade, people who celebrate multi-culturalism.

 

 

 

Here it is ... you didn't say "some" remain supporters ... you implied all. And no reference to the opposite side who are a great deal worse.

 

 

Just now, AlexRich said:

 

You stated that you were a neutral observer, providing an objective opinion. And your opinion was that insults, personal attacks and conspiracies were coming from those that support the Remain cause. That is patently false. And I gave you several examples of the sort of language used on here by those who take the opposite view. Language that you appeared to have missed? My point was valid ... you are either not as neutral as you state or you are woeful in your judgement of these threads. 

 

 

 

 

You are framing this as some sort of childish contest between Remain and Leave supporters. Is the language used by Leave supporters an excuse in your eyes for Remain supporters to be as aggressive and insulting as they like?

 

3 minutes ago, nkg said:

 

You are framing this as some sort of childish contest between Remain and Leave supporters. Is the language used by Leave supporters an excuse in your eyes for Remain supporters to be as aggressive and insulting as they like?

 

 

There are moderators on here who monitor the comments, and anyone deemed "out of order" gets deleted, and sometimes censured. As it should be. The fact you don't like the cut and thrust of this debate is fine by me (your opinion), but don't try to "frame it" like people who support remain are not entitled to respond in kind, if they wish. That is our right. 

 

However, you cannot claim to be a neutral observer and only observe Remain supporters comments ... that's hardly neutral. It's a bit like witnessing a man being attacked by two others and successfully defending himself. When the Police arrive you tell them that this guy beat the hell out of these two gentlemen ... but fail to mention that their behaviour led to it.

 

 

 

25 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

There are moderators on here who monitor the comments, and anyone deemed "out of order" gets deleted, and sometimes censured. As it should be. The fact you don't like the cut and thrust of this debate is fine by me (your opinion), but don't try to "frame it" like people who support remain are not entitled to respond in kind, if they wish. That is our right. 

 

However, you cannot claim to be a neutral observer and only observe Remain supporters comments ... that's hardly neutral. It's a bit like witnessing a man being attacked by two others and successfully defending himself. When the Police arrive you tell them that this guy beat the hell out of these two gentlemen ... but fail to mention that their behaviour led to it.

 

 

 

There are some right little nasties among the Remain posters. They seem to think the 'cut and thrust' is only allowed from their side, which they expound all the time. Any response, or opinion they don't like, is met with cries or reports for deletion.

Which Remainers would do that? All of them I think.

1 minute ago, Loiner said:

There are some right little nasties among the Remain posters. They seem to think the 'cut and thrust' is only allowed from their side, which they expound all the time. Any response, or opinion they don't like, is met with cries or reports for deletion.

Which Remainers would do that? All of them I think.

A rather illustrative demonstration of a Psychotic reply by yourself.  Perhaps you should stand back and consider that opinions of others are just as valid as your own, even if they are the opposite.

43 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

There are moderators on here who monitor the comments, and anyone deemed "out of order" gets deleted, and sometimes censured. As it should be. The fact you don't like the cut and thrust of this debate is fine by me (your opinion), but don't try to "frame it" like people who support remain are not entitled to respond in kind, if they wish. That is our right. 

 

However, you cannot claim to be a neutral observer and only observe Remain supporters comments ... that's hardly neutral. It's a bit like witnessing a man being attacked by two others and successfully defending himself. When the Police arrive you tell them that this guy beat the hell out of these two gentlemen ... but fail to mention that their behaviour led to it.

 

 

 

 

I am pleasantly surprised with the restraint you have shown so far - the civilised nature of our conversation has made for an interesting discussion.

 

Yes, you have the right to respond however you wish. But as a Remainer, aren't you supposed to hold the moral high ground? You welcome immigrants, support multi-culturalism, champion human rights. Many Remainers posting here are clearly intelligent, degree-educated people. A Remainer can be as nasty and spiteful as they wish - that is their right. But in the process they lose the moral high ground that they have worked so hard to achieve.

 

Edited May 24, 20197 yr by nkg
clarity

6 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

A rather illustrative demonstration of a Psychotic reply by yourself.  Perhaps you should stand back and consider that opinions of others are just as valid as your own, even if they are the opposite.

Care to give examples of any Remainer opinions I've caused to be deleted? 

3 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Care to give examples of any Remainer opinions I've caused to be deleted? 

A somewhat stupid question IMHO. How would I know what remainers opinions have been deleted due to yourself ?  Perhaps you should ask the mods that question and when you have the answer let us all now

16 minutes ago, Loiner said:

There are some right little nasties among the Remain posters. They seem to think the 'cut and thrust' is only allowed from their side, which they expound all the time. Any response, or opinion they don't like, is met with cries or reports for deletion.

Which Remainers would do that? All of them I think.

More nonsense from you. I couldn’t care less what anyone posts, and I don’t complain to moderators about them. Anyone who thinks people like Farage and Tommy’s Robinson are people to look up to is as sad and nasty as it gets.

12 minutes ago, nkg said:

 

I am pleasantly surprised with the restraint you have shown so far - the civilised nature of our conversation has made for an interesting discussion.

 

Yes, you have the right to respond however you wish. But as a Remainer, aren't you supposed to hold the moral high ground? You welcome immigrants, support multi-culturalism, champion human rights. Many Remainers posting here are clearly intelligent, degree-educated people. A Remainer can be as nasty and spiteful as they wish - that is their right. But in the process they lose the moral high ground that they have worked so hard to achieve.

 

The argument as far as I’m concerned is little to do with morality, and more to do with what’s best for the people of the UK, particularly the young ones (and the ones coming through later) who will have to carry the heavy weight of Brexit. The OAPs on here who think it’s a great thing won’t have to deal with the consequences of it. They expect others to do that. Of course if Brexit hit them hard they would never have voted for it. But underlying that is a bunch of shady figures with links to countries that are looking to disrupt the west, in particular Russia. With all of these disruptive parties across Europe (and the US) you see Russian connections and influences. The electoral commission believe that Aaron Banks £8m donation came from soviet intelligence. With tax havens and secrecy that will be a job to prove, but we’ve already seen leaks with the Panama papers, so the truth may come out in the end. We’ve seen a similar scandal a few days ago in Austria. 

 

Im not interested in moral high grounds, I’m interested in the truth.

 

18 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

A somewhat stupid question IMHO. How would I know what remainers opinions have been deleted due to yourself ?  Perhaps you should ask the mods that question and when you have the answer let us all now

So none. How about an example of a Psychotic reply? Please remember a psychotic bit.

5 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Short memory time??
A certain alex salmond was your hero until quite recently..now he's soon being tried for 2 attempted rapes. 7 attempted sexual asssults etc etc.
Does stones/glasshouses ring a bell??

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Funny that, because I’ve never voted SNP in my life, nor did I vote for Scottish independence.

 

But don’t let those facts get in the way of a good post Teddy, just keep making things up ... you’re good at that.

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

More nonsense from you. I couldn’t care less what anyone posts, and I don’t complain to moderators about them. Anyone who thinks people like Farage and Tommy’s Robinson are people to look up to is as sad and nasty as it gets.

Not you - so which Remainer is it?
Do you hate Farage and Tommy Robinsion as much, or more, than the old people you prefer dead so they couldn't vote Leave again? I thinks that's nastier - don't you?