Elderly Mom with Alzheimer's Forced to Leave Thailand

[BadSpottedDog]

What a journey it has been. It is so sad that my Mom's stay in Thailand must come to an end. My 77 year old mother has stage 6 Alzheimer's and can no longer care for herself. The unfortunate truth is, that American Citizens who have no substantial savings or assets, basically have no options for long term care. Neither insurance nor the government will pay for it. This is why we moved my Mom to Thailand. My husband and I had already made the move ourselves to check things out for her and us as well. When we found that Thailand was a great solution, we initially got my daughter to fly with Mom to Thailand, and we rented a house large enough for all of us. We hired caretakers, and were hoping that would be a good situation for everyone. But it was not. The "dream" vs the "reality" is a harsh lesson. Mom needs someone to talk to and interact with during all of her waking hours. She literally has the mentality of a 2 year old at this point, and cannot understand why her daughter is trying to be her Mom. She wakes up at 3am demanding to be fed. She will leave the property and get lost (this did happen). Fortunately, a kind couple found her and brought her home. Eventually, we found Care Resort in Chiang Mai! It offers 24/7, luxury care for her for a fraction of the price it would cost in the USA, and we were thrilled! She had a private room and bath. Yoga class, cooking classes, Thai classes, filed trips all over Chiang Mai, shopping sprees, and hair dressing whenever she wanted. You can see in the photo below how happy she is. 

All is well, but in comes the massive changes in immigration requirements, and everything comes tumbling down. Since we are paying for a large portion of her care, we considered it "income" for her. The financial statements from the Embassy provided proof of her "income". Everything was great. She was happy. Care Resort employs many Thai staff, which improves the Thai economy. Mom does not make 65k baht per month, nor does she have 800k to let sit in a bank account, because my husband and I pay the overage for her care. Her Alzheimer's led to bad decisions, which left her penniless ... except for her social security income (pension). 
You would think that this would be ok, because the cost of Care Resort is over 80,000 baht per month, right!? But NO! Nothing we could do would work to satisfy the new requirements. If we show our income for her extension of stay, then we are short! 
It's so sad that Thailand is not thinking through the ripple effect of these changes. Care Resort is now in dire straights. Thai staff will no longer have jobs, and who knows what will happen in the long run? 
My husband and I have now spent the past several months finding alternatives for my Mom. We were thankful that we found an alternative care facility in the Philippines, but getting this done and arranging my Mom's move has been a nightmare. 
I will be escorting her out of Thailand permanently Tuesday, and if this keeps up, we may follow. We are very careful to follow the letter of the law regarding immigration practices here. But now we are so disheartened and disappointed that Thailand government is not appreciating nor recognizing what upstanding citizens bring to this beautiful country. 

Edited May 26, 2019 by BadSpottedDog
spelling mistake

[darrendsd]

Unfortunately everyone has to satisfy the Immigration requirements no matter what their situation is

 

Put the 800K in the bank for her- if you can't afford that then use a agent who will charge you around 20K - if you don't know any agents i'm sure there are people on here who will be happy to supply you one

 

Hope it all works out and good luck

Edited May 26, 2019 by darrendsd

[BadSpottedDog]

2 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

Put the 800K in the bank for her- if you can't afford that then use a agent who will charge you around 20K - if you don't know any agents i'm sure there are people on here who will be happy to supply you one

 

Hope it all works out and good luck

Thank you! We would do that, but now immigration is saying that 400k has to stay in the bank account for the whole year! Moving my Mom in a year will be even more difficult with her condition, so all the plans are in motion to move her Tuesday. No one really knows how much more severe the changes will be. Better safe than sorry. ????

[The Man Who Sold the World]

BadSpottedDog:

 

You have my sympathy. Thank you for sharing you and your Moms situation.

 

Good Luck - may things work out well for you and yours.

[BadSpottedDog]

3 minutes ago, The Man Who Sold the World said:

BadSpottedDog:

 

You have my sympathy. Thank you for sharing you and your Moms situation.

 

Good Luck - may things work out well for you and yours.

Thank you! We do too. (I love your user name, BTW).

[wisperone]

Good luck.  Can't imagine how all consuming that situation is.

[BadSpottedDog]

5 minutes ago, wisperone said:

Good luck.  Can't imagine how all consuming that situation is.

Thank you. It seriously has been. All we want is for her to be happy .. and we will go to the ends of the earth to make that happen. ❤️ 

[BritTim]

43 minutes ago, BadSpottedDog said:

We are very careful to follow the letter of the law regarding immigration practices here. But now we are so disheartened and disappointed that Thailand government is not appreciating nor recognizing what upstanding citizens bring to this beautiful country. 

This is a horrible situation, and it is really sad that you could not find a sympathetic senior immigration official who would work with you to find a solution. Frankly, this is one of those situations where skirting the law using agents seems to me a moral action. For around 20,000 baht a year, you can make all the immigration issues go away. There is a risk, but a small one if you choose the right agent.

[RobMuir]

40 minutes ago, BadSpottedDog said:

But now we are so disheartened and disappointed that Thailand government is not appreciating nor recognizing what upstanding citizens bring to this beautiful country. 

She would be fine if she or you had money. But you don’t. So you are not really bringing much to the table and won’t really be viewed as upstanding, and i doubt you are are citizen.

 

i have the same plan if my mum goes the same way.

 

Maybe you could gofundme with a promise to pay everyone back when the money is no longer needed. People donate to complete dropkicks at that website so with your genuine story you might get a few takers. 800,000 isn’t a lot of money.

Good luck.

 

[BritTim]

3 minutes ago, RobMuir said:

She would be fine if she or you had money. But you don’t. So you are not really bringing much to the table and won’t really be viewed as upstanding, and i doubt you are are citizen.

80,000 baht a month to a care facility employing only Thai staff is not nothing. The problem is that immigration want to see this as transfer from abroad into the lady's bank account rather than used for her care.

[BadSpottedDog]

3 minutes ago, RobMuir said:

She would be fine if she or you had money. But you don’t. So you are not really bringing much to the table and won’t really be viewed as upstanding, and i doubt you are are citizen.

 

i have the same plan if my mum goes the same way.

 

Maybe you could gofundme with a promise to pay everyone back when the money is no longer needed. People donate to complete dropkicks at that website so with your genuine story you might get a few takers. 800,000 isn’t a lot of money.

Good luck.

 

What!? I think you missed some of this. We are paying EIGHTY SIX THOUSAND baht per MONTH for her care, plus meeting our own financial requirements for immigration. 86k per month is way way over the 65k requirement for her, but immigration does not recognize this because it is coming from us and not a foreign source. 

[elliss]

18 minutes ago, BritTim said:

 

 

18 minutes ago, BritTim said:

This is a horrible situation, and it is really sad that you could not find a sympathetic senior immigration official who would work with you to find a solution. Frankly, this is one of those situations where skirting the law using agents seems to me a moral action. For around 20,000 baht a year, you can make all the immigration issues go away. There is a risk, but a small one if you choose the right agent.

 

      The right agent ,  is the one that used to be an immigration officer.

   With the passing of time, and age related problems,

Los  is not a good place to be, sympathy not have..

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2019 by elliss

[madmen]

9 minutes ago, BadSpottedDog said:

What!? I think you missed some of this. We are paying EIGHTY SIX THOUSAND baht per MONTH for her care, plus meeting our own financial requirements for immigration. 86k per month is way way over the 65k requirement for her, but immigration does not recognize this because it is coming from us and not a foreign source. 

Send the money back to your home country and resend it back to her Bank account every month. They don't care who sends it as long as its in her account every month.

You can then bank transfer to her care center or pull the money out via debit card 

Edited May 26, 2019 by madmen

[RobMuir]

4 minutes ago, BadSpottedDog said:

What!? I think you missed some of this. We are paying EIGHTY SIX THOUSAND baht per MONTH for her care, plus meeting our own financial requirements for immigration. 86k per month is way way over the 65k requirement for her, but immigration does not recognize this because it is coming from us and not a foreign source. 

Where is your money coming from?

 

Earned in Thailand? Or from a foreign source? 

 

Mum is required to have 800,000 and doesn’t have it. If nobody you know will lend it to you, gofundme is your only option I can see. Arguing with immigration will get you nowhere. Money talks. The laws apply to everyone, they can’t bend them even for self declared “upstanding citizens”, that’s not how it works.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[Damrongsak]

BadSpottedDog,

 

I can sympathize.  On Friday we moved my 91 year old Mom from an assisted living facility (in the USA) into their "memory care" unit, as she needed more care.  Probably will not get as much individual attention as Care Resort would give.  Cost is about 200,000 Baht per month.  We are just extremely lucky that her income covers that and she has substantial investments as a reserve.

 

We had to spend the last two weeks watching her 24 hours a day.  I had a 16 hour afternoon/night shift. I am fried.

[madmen]

Go fund me wont work. This is not an emergency.

[BritTim]

25 minutes ago, RobMuir said:

The laws apply to everyone, they can’t bend them even for self declared “upstanding citizens”, that’s not how it works.

You have seen a different side of Thailand to me over the last few decades. Senior officials absolutely do bend the rules more or less often. Sometimes they do so for financial remuneration. Other times they do so because they are decent humans who want to help. Senior officials actually have the official power to waive some of the rules around extensions. I suspect the head official at the immigration office has discretion to accept the care home payments as proof of 65,000+ baht monthly income.

[RobMuir]

30 minutes ago, BritTim said:

You have seen a different side of Thailand to me over the last few decades. Senior officials absolutely do bend the rules more or less often. Sometimes they do so for financial remuneration. Other times they do so because they are decent humans who want to help. Senior officials actually have the official power to waive some of the rules around extensions. I suspect the head official at the immigration office has discretion to accept the care home payments as proof of 65,000+ baht monthly income.

Yeah fair point.

But you need cash or to know the right people to get rules bent.

 

If the op had either she wouldn’t be asking here.

 

The money in the bank or income issue is red hot currently with immigration having cracked down very recently because so many people have been cheating the system for so long with “agents”.

 

Not a good time for her to be trying to get rules bent.

 

[kritsana77]

Another industry (which is quite lucrative BTW) long term elderly care that Thailand will lose out on. Short minded non critical thinking is the norm in LOS. Vote with your pocket books and get mom to PI.

 

Any of the comments by these Thai sympathizers, will eventually bite them in their asses when they get older and run of options. See you LOS. I am glad I bailed out when I did. 

[darrendsd]

1 hour ago, BadSpottedDog said:

Thank you! We would do that, but now immigration is saying that 400k has to stay in the bank account for the whole year!

Everything can be sorted with a agent

[BadSpottedDog]

2 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

BadSpottedDog,

 

I can sympathize.  On Friday we moved my 91 year old Mom from an assisted living facility (in the USA) into their "memory care" unit, as she needed more care.  Probably will not get as much individual attention as Care Resort would give.  Cost is about 200,000 Baht per month.  We are just extremely lucky that her income covers that and she has substantial investments as a reserve.

 

We had to spend the last two weeks watching her 24 hours a day.  I had a 16 hour afternoon/night shift. I am fried.

I'm so sorry you are going through this too. We could not find one facility in the USA that was acceptable and affordable. It's great that your mom has the resources. Hang in there .. it's harder for the family than the Alzheimer's patients. ❤️

[BadSpottedDog]

2 hours ago, madmen said:

Go fund me wont work. This is not an emergency.

You're absolutely right. Plus ... I will never ask people to support my Mom. Especially since it is completely within my power to provide for her. 

[BadSpottedDog]

3 minutes ago, BadSpottedDog said:

I'm so sorry you are going through this too. We could not find one facility in the USA that was acceptable and affordable. It's great that your mom has the resources. Hang in there .. it's harder for the family than the Alzheimer's patients. ❤️

When we were still in the states, I literally told my Mom that I would take her on a crime spree, and that if she was arrested, she would get better care than the assisted living facilities in her price range.
I think this is a great solution, even though the initial move might be hard. Long term stays for US citizens in the Philippines is really easy. Our number one goal is to make her happy, and it seems like she is so far ❤️

[JulieM]

2 hours ago, madmen said:

Go fund me wont work. This is not an emergency.

What are you talking about? Gofundme is not limited to emergencies. Gofundme is primarily used to raise money from friends and family in any situation requiring financial help. Strangers can give as well, and often do if the campaign gets media coverage. Since the OP is willing to share her mother's image, that goes a long way to establishing credibility.

 

Also, I agree with the comments that with the right visa agent, all of these problems will go away. 

[Damrongsak]

My Mom doesn't have Alzheimer's, though some dementia is showing.  Falls out of her wheelchair frequently, says she wants to kill herself, that sort of thing. Tough.

[BadSpottedDog]

5 minutes ago, Damrongsak said:

My Mom doesn't have Alzheimer's, though some dementia is showing.  Falls out of her wheelchair frequently, says she wants to kill herself, that sort of thing. Tough.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I hope you can find what makes her happy. So sad to see our parents this way. ????

[BadSpottedDog]

2 hours ago, wisperone said:

Good luck.  Can't imagine how all consuming that situation is.

Yes. It has been 3 months worth of planning and visiting the new facility in person. We just want her to be happy.

[DrJack54]

I will cop heaps for this... nonetheless you bring a fragile person to of all places Thailand. When people are frail and aged it can be very quick downhill situation. She should of remained in home country. What was the plan in your thinking. Having said that I very much sympathize with your horrible situation. Good luck

Edited May 26, 2019 by DrJack54

[BadSpottedDog]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

I will cop heaps for this... nonetheless you bring a fragile person to of all places Thailand. When people are frail and aged it can be very quick downhill situation. She should of remained in home country. What was the plan in your thinking. Having said that I very much sympathize with a horrible situation. 

The care in her home country is horrid and unaffordable. It costs $10,000 USD and UP for a 24/7 Alzheimer's patient. And no .. the US government doesn't pay, and no insurance will cover her.
Since she has been in Thailand, she has been SO SO happy. Happier than she has been in many years, and she has not gone "downhill" at all.
So bringing her to Asia has been the best decision I have ever made. My point was that these changes are not well thought through and very short sighted. 

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, BadSpottedDog said:

The care in her home country is horrid and unaffordable. It costs $10,000 USD and UP for a 24/7 Alzheimer's patient. And no .. the US government doesn't pay, and no insurance will cover her.
Since she has been in Thailand, she has been SO SO happy. Happier than she has been in many years, and she has not gone "downhill" at all.
So bringing her to Asia has been the best decision I have ever made. My point was that these changes are not well thought through and very short sighted. 

Again I demonstrate my stupidity. In Australia we have health cover that covers most things. Not sure about your mums situation. In any event seems your between rock and hard place. At very least she has caring family. Cheers