Pro-Europe vote fragments but limits nationalist gains in EU election

[JonnyF]

13 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The post you copies states Remain Parties at 40.4% and Hard Brexit parties at 34.9%. Did you distort and incorrectly post the figures by mistake? Or just your own unique interpretation?

Yes, I missed SNP and ChangeUK, I already corrected myself in another post.

 

But I still couldn't get to 40.4% for parties that only represent Remain. Who are you counting as Remain?

[candide]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

No, Orban is an ally of Israel .

He may be Right-wing , but he isnt a neo-nazi .

BTW , what are the anti-semetic conspiracy theories that Orban supports 

You'd better ask Hungarian Jews...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jews-remain-silent-as-antisemitism-spreads-in-orban-s-hungary-s29vsmdrs

[simple1]

44 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Welovesundaysatspace made the claim about Neo-Nazis taking part in the E.U. elections and I disputed that allegation . And he named Ornban as being one of those neo nazis

    He maybe all the things that you stated , I really dont know .

But as Hungary is considered to be Israels closest allie in Europe and baring in mind that Nazis didnt like Jews , he cannot considered to be a neo nazi.

Don't know how you can argue if you know nothing of Orban - it does seem you haven't bothered to read links / research. Moving along another link for you...

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/02/24/why-benjamin-netanyahu-loves-the-european-far-right-orban-kaczynski-pis-fidesz-visegrad-likud-antisemitism-hungary-poland-illiberalism/

[JonnyF]

13 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The post you copies states Remain Parties at 40.4% and Hard Brexit parties at 34.9%. Did you distort and incorrectly post the figures by mistake? Or just your own unique interpretation?

Yes, I missed SNP and ChangeUK, I already corrected myself in another post.

 

But I still couldn't get to 40.4% for parties that only represent Remain. Who are you counting as Remain?

[candide]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Statistics showing a fabricated truth. The Tories and Labour all supported Brexit in their manifestos. Add them up with the Brexit party and the claim in the title is rubbished. You can always count on the Guardian newspaper for the spin.

 

2 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Are you actually believing your own nonsense? Both main parties campaigned for Remain. Both of them voted against a hard Brexit in parliament. There was a single-topic Brexit party everyone could have voted for. Now as you realize only a third support them you’re trying to tell us Brexiteers actually voted Labour or Tory? 

 

There is no majority for (hard) Brexit. Spin it as you like.

A significant number of people who voted for Labour or Tories have switched to other parties so I doubt that previous statistics about their voters' composition are still valid.

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Don't know how you can argue if you know nothing of Orban - it does seem you haven't bothered to read links / research. Moving along another link for you...

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/02/24/why-benjamin-netanyahu-loves-the-european-far-right-orban-kaczynski-pis-fidesz-visegrad-likud-antisemitism-hungary-poland-illiberalism/

Nazis tried to kill all the Jews .

Orban is best friends with the Jewish state .

Thus , Orban isnt a neo Nazi 

[geoffbezoz]

Just now, sanemax said:

Nazis tried to kill all the Jews .

Orban is best friends with the Jewish state .

Thus , Orban isnt a neo Nazi 

I don't think this is either the post nor the forum to bring up the appalling actions of last centenary. Can we please stay with the OP subject matter.

[dick dasterdly]

19 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Yes, I missed SNP and ChangeUK, I already corrected myself in another post.

 

But I still couldn't get to 40.4% for parties that only represent Remain. Who are you counting as Remain?

It's anyone other than tories/labour, for some obscure reason.....

[welovesundaysatspace]

59 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I didn't state my preference, I stated what will happen.

I wasn’t necessarily assuming a preferences. I mainly asked whether you actually find your predictions realistic. 

 

59 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

As a Democrat first and foremost, I simply want someone who implements the promises made in their party's manifesto, and respects the electorate and democracy enough to implement the result of the referendum. I don't see that as extremist or unreasonable, no matter how much the anti-democrats try to twist things. 

I don’t think it is democratic to implement something that is not the wish of the people. I don’t think it is democratic to implement the result of a vote that was heavily manipulated with false promises and outright lie. I don’t even think it is democratic to ask people to decide something that is too complex for the majority in the first place. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

 

 

 

Fair enough, until you stated "I think we’d settle for a second referendum", which surely begs the question asked by evadgib!

 

 

Same response to you. 

 

The answer to evadgib's question is absolutely none of your business. 

 

Would you like a second opinion on that?

[bristolboy]

3 hours ago, baansgr said:

As is to say they were remainers. Fact and figures show what people want, unless leave gained 100% of all eligible votes, the remoaners and the Guardian will always come out with some rubbish. Sour grapes, its laughable 

All you've demonstrated here is that you don't understand arithmetic and that you indulge in baseless assertions.

[JonnyF]

13 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I wasn’t necessarily assuming a preferences. I mainly asked whether you actually find your predictions realistic. 

 

I don’t think it is democratic to implement something that is not the wish of the people. I don’t think it is democratic to implement the result of a vote that was heavily manipulated with false promises and outright lie. I don’t even think it is democratic to ask people to decide something that is too complex for the majority in the first place. 

1. Leave won the referendum, so it is the wish of the people.

2. Both sides lied. None of the economic doomsday predictions by Remain's Project Fear (on a vote to leave, not actually leaving) came true. Most people were intelligent enough to see and ignore the lies from both sides and vote on core issues.

3. It is not complex, and people are not as stupid as you assume. We wish to govern ourselves from now on and we no longer wish to fund and be part of the creation of a European superstate. We don't like the direction of the EU bus so we've rung the bell, we're getting off.

4. Yes I believe my predictions are realistic. Do you think the Tories will choose a Remainer PM who holds a second referendum? I don't. You think the Lib Dems would win a GE and revoke? You think the EU will renegotiate in good faith and offer us a fair deal? I see us leaving October 31 with No Deal. What do you think will happen? 

[Laughing Gravy]

57 minutes ago, candide said:

 

A significant number of people who voted for Labour or Tories have switched to other parties so I doubt that previous statistics about their voters' composition are still valid.

Where is your evidence for that or have you just made it up.

[bristolboy]

Just now, Laughing Gravy said:

Where is your evidence for that or have you just made it up.

How do you explain the MEP vote totals? Brexit party supporters, Green Party supporters, and Lib Dem supporters just materialized out of thin air?

[candide]

19 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

How do you explain the MEP vote totals? Brexit party supporters, Green Party supporters, and Lib Dem supporters just materialized out of thin air?

A renewal of the 'spontaneous generation' theory?????

[Laughing Gravy]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

If anything establishes the mathematical ineptitude of certain people, it's that they liked your post.  More than 60% of Labour voters voted for leave? Really? Let me see the referendum was 52-48 in favor of leave. Where did all those remain voters come from? The Lib-Dems? The SNP? Or were they bused in from France? 

Don't you know. look at the voting demographics. Scotland. London, Northern Ireland mostly voted remain the rest mostly voted leave. Just look your tinted glasses off and see the map.

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2016-eu-referendum

 You are not going to come up with a YouGov poll of 1000plus people that were surveyed????

 

[aright]

6 hours ago, sanemax said:

There are also Conservative and Labour M.P.s who also support Brexit , so a vote for them cannot be seen as anti-Brexit

 

6 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Why didn’t they vote Brexit then? 

Because there are many people who are dyed in the wool party supporters who vote for their party regardless of the issues.

[welovesundaysatspace]

16 minutes ago, aright said:

 

Because there are many people who are dyed in the wool party supporters who vote for their party regardless of the issues.

Why would they do that if they really are pro Brexit? Doesn’t make sense right? 

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Why would they do that if they really are pro Brexit? Doesn’t make sense right? 

It's called loyalty. A rare attribute these days. Could affect both leavers and remainers. Doesn’t make sense right? 

[aright]

Just now, welovesundaysatspace said:

Why would they do that if they really are pro Brexit? Doesn’t make sense right? 

It makes sense in the sense that many people have voted from cradle their support for a particular political party. They trust that their party will make the right decision for them.

I personally vote on the basis of the issues but many people I know always vote for the same party and of course there are many people who vote tactically regardless of the issues. These positions make the final analysis opaque.

[Jip99]

8 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Why would they do that if they really are pro Brexit? Doesn’t make sense right? 

 

Wrong - as you ought to be aware, there are people who will blindly/loyally continue to support the party of their choice....and probably the choice of their father before them.

 

Do you think an Old Etonian who has voted Tory for 40 years is suddenly going to vote for the Brexit party ? What about a miner brought up on the left wing doctrines of Skinner et al - jump ship to the Brexit party just because he voted leave? 

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

It makes sense in the sense that many people have voted from cradle their support for a particular political party. They trust that their party will make the right decision for them.

I personally vote on the basis of the issues but many people I know always vote for the same party and of course there are many people who vote tactically regardless of the issues. These positions make the final analysis opaque.

 

 

This is the first time in my life that I have not voted Conservative..

 

 

Would I do the same at a general election ?

 

Quite possibly.

[aright]

1 minute ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

This is the first time in my life that I have not voted Conservative..

 

 

Would I do the same at a general election ?

 

Quite possibly.

I feel the same. I voted Brexit in the Euros because I want to be out of Europe and that was their single issue, but that does not mean they  would get my vote in a GE. My vote would be made on the basis of Party attitude and their manifestos. 

[dunroaming]

8 hours ago, nauseus said:

UKIP nowhere. Gerard Batten has gone.

Yes Farage did well, pretty much as the pundits predicted.  They picked up all the UKIP votes for starters which was obvious plus the frustrated Tory and Labour voters who were still desperate to leave at any cost.  It is a clever plan by Farage.  Don't complicate things by having actual policies, just stick to one line which is represented in the parties name.  That focusses the electorate on one thing.

 

Dire for the Conservatives and Labour and we can expect some knee jerk responses from them.  Also as predicted big gains for the Lib Dems and Greens, picking up many of the frustrated remainers  votes.  One thing it confirms is that the country is still at loggerheads when it comes to Brexit.

 

I think the irony is that if the Brexiteers are successful and then we leave in October all those MEP's will be out of a job.  So the Brexit Party MEP's have been campaigning to get the sack five months on ????

[sanemax]

Just now, dunroaming said:

 

I think the irony is that if the Brexiteers are successful and then we leave in October all those MEP's will be out of a job.  So the Brexit Party MEP's have been campaigning to get the sack five months on ????

The Brexiteer M.P's hoped to be out of Brussels last March 

[welovesundaysatspace]

39 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

Wrong - as you ought to be aware, there are people who will blindly/loyally continue to support the party of their choice....and probably the choice of their father before them.

My question was why anyone who truly wants Brexit would not support the Brexit party but rather one of the main parties. No one has been able to answer my question, including yourself. Simply because it doesn’t make sense that someone who supports Brexit would not vote for Brexit but for what is father voted for. It makes as much sense as suggesting there could be remainers in the Brexit party vote just because their dad always voted for Farage. 

 

[malagateddy]

Yes Farage did well, pretty much as the pundits predicted.  They picked up all the UKIP votes for starters which was obvious plus the frustrated Tory and Labour voters who were still desperate to leave at any cost.  It is a clever plan by Farage.  Don't complicate things by having actual policies, just stick to one line which is represented in the parties name.  That focusses the electorate on one thing.
 
Dire for the Conservatives and Labour and we can expect some knee jerk responses from them.  Also as predicted big gains for the Lib Dems and Greens, picking up many of the frustrated remainers  votes.  One thing it confirms is that the country is still at loggerheads when it comes to Brexit.
 
I think the irony is that if the Brexiteers are successful and then we leave in October all those MEP's will be out of a job.  So the Brexit Party MEP's have been campaigning to get the sack five months on [emoji1]

I do not think they would be bothered one iota.
Next on their list would be campaigning for a GE[emoji2][emoji2][emoji2]

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[welovesundaysatspace]

56 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It's called loyalty. A rare attribute these days. Could affect both leavers and remainers. Doesn’t make sense right? 

No, it doesn’t make sense. I could as well suggest there are Remainers in the Brexit party number just because they love Farage so much. 

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

My question was why anyone who truly wants Brexit would not support the Brexit party but rather one of the main parties. No one has been able to answer my question, including yourself. 

Numerous people have answered your question .

I have a feeling that you are making the suggestion that those who vote CON/LAB were remainers .

  So, why didnt they then vote for one of the remain parties ?

[nauseus]

17 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

No, it doesn’t make sense. I could as well suggest there are Remainers in the Brexit party number just because they love Farage so much. 

No, you couldn't.