UK ever more polarised as Brexit Party storms to EU vote win

[SheungWan]

9 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Most Hard Brexiteers don't want to know anything other than an echo of their own opinions. And adding up Hard Brexiteers and Soft Brexiteer numbers to justify Hard Brexiteer opinion is hilarious. Stick it with the other junk they peddle.

 

9 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

In your opinion.

Hard Brexiteers are more au fait with copying and pasting nonsense from loony tune websites. Too lazy to work out an opinion.

[stevenl]

5 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

As far as I recall both Tories and Labour stated in their manifestos that they would deliver Brexit. Not everyone who voted for these parties candidates was a Remainer.

Which is why they are not included in the remain or leave group.

Really not difficult to understand.

[SheungWan]

6 hours ago, Jip99 said:

As far as I recall both Tories and Labour stated in their manifestos that they would deliver Brexit. Not everyone who voted for these parties candidates was a Remainer.

But not Hard Brexiteers.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Hard Brexiteers are more au fait with copying and pasting nonsense from loony tune websites. Too lazy to work out an opinion.

My opinion is leave ASAP.

No need to work anything else out, we can worry about that after escaping German rule in Europe.

[Sticky Wicket]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Yeas I agree and can you remember a few weeks ago many members on here were ridiculing Nigel Farage with his march from the North to London and saying he was a has been and those that followed him have died or changed their belief. How silly and out of touch those members are.

The opening odds on the exchanges for the Brexit Party to have most seats was 3.5 that's 5/2 in old money.

Therefore it wasn't expected and definitely not by that amount!

 

[bristolboy]

Britain regrets Brexit: European election results show a solid majority for Remain

 

• Statistics from the European election results in the UK suggest that Remain would have won, easily, if this had been a "proxy" referendum on Britain's membership in the European Union.
• Nigel Farage's Brexit Party and Brexit supporters inside the Conservative Party are now likely to fight tooth and nail against a second referendum — they know they will lose.
• There is an obvious strategic advantage for Labour if it were to now pivot in favor of a second vote.

https://www.businessinsider.com/european-election-results-uk-regrets-brexit-votes-remain-2019-5

[Sticky Wicket]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

 

Hard Brexiteers are more au fait with copying and pasting nonsense from loony tune websites. Too lazy to work out an opinion.

Another asinine response, sigh.

Don't you get bored with never adding anything of note to a thread. Just unpleasant digs

[dick dasterdly]

22 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Britain regrets Brexit: European election results show a solid majority for Remain

 

• Statistics from the European election results in the UK suggest that Remain would have won, easily, if this had been a "proxy" referendum on Britain's membership in the European Union.
• Nigel Farage's Brexit Party and Brexit supporters inside the Conservative Party are now likely to fight tooth and nail against a second referendum — they know they will lose.
• There is an obvious strategic advantage for Labour if it were to now pivot in favor of a second vote.

https://www.businessinsider.com/european-election-results-uk-regrets-brexit-votes-remain-2019-5

Talk about an obviously biased opinion piece! ????

 

I particularly liked "There is an obvious strategic advantage for Labour if it were to now pivot in favor of a second vote.".

- bearing in mind labour performed extremely badly in the eu elections, despite already supporting (as far as I can make out) a second referendum.

[bristolboy]

12 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Talk about an obviously biased opinion piece! ????

 

I particularly liked "There is an obvious strategic advantage for Labour if it were to now pivot in favor of a second vote.".

- bearing in mind labour performed extremely badly in the eu elections, despite already supporting (as far as I can make out) a second referendum.

Yes. Clearly labour gave voters a clear choice on Brexit as exemplified by your "as far as I can make out" take on their stance.

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

Britain regrets Brexit: European election results show a solid majority for Remain

 

• Statistics from the European election results in the UK suggest that Remain would have won, easily, if this had been a "proxy" referendum on Britain's membership in the European Union.
• Nigel Farage's Brexit Party and Brexit supporters inside the Conservative Party are now likely to fight tooth and nail against a second referendum — they know they will lose.
• There is an obvious strategic advantage for Labour if it were to now pivot in favor of a second vote.

https://www.businessinsider.com/european-election-results-uk-regrets-brexit-votes-remain-2019-5

They included a Labour vote as a vote to Remain, despite the Party being completely split on the issue and the leader being a notorious Euro sceptic!!  Similarly, people vote for the Greens first and foremost on environmental issues, to suggest that all people who voted Green did so because they favour Remain is ridiculous.

 

If you want to know how people feel on Brexit you need to isolate that issue and ask them to vote on it. May I refer you to 2016.

[wilcopops]

one of farage's complaints abut the EU is that it is undemocratic, yet he has been and ELECTED member for some time.....and now he seem's to think that this "undemocratic" vote gives him some kind of say in the UKc negotiating team. Hw never has been a member of the British parliament despite standing for election many times.

What is undeniable however is the thew largest number of votes in th EU elections were for a remain stance.

 

What is needed now is a General Election - no party could justify remaining in power after the cock ups of the last 2 or 3 years

[wilcopops]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

despite already supporting (as far as I can make out) a second referendum.

No they didn't - Corbyn is a Brexiteer and a vote for Labour was a vote for Brexit........so all but the blindly loyal have deserted them.

[wilcopops]

1 hour ago, Sticky Wicket said:

Just unpleasant dig

Only "unpleasant" if they hit home.

[BobBKK]

20 hours ago, twocatsmac said:

Deals? Let’s just exit the rotten to the core EU. It’s a bigger world out there than the Brussels bubble. 

Ignore B liar and his phoney war and the scare mongers, let’s meet and trade with the rest of the world. 

British Empire again even? Lol, get on with it, we had the vote already. 

Things change and more voted for remain Parties and leave this election. What you afraid of?

[BritManToo]

14 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Things change and more voted for remain Parties and leave this election. What you afraid of?

60% voted for leave parties, Brexit, Tory, Lab, UKip ......... all leave parties.

Remain in the form of ChangeUK got 2.9%,  & LibDems 18.5%

 

I think to keep everything absolutely fair,

Every MP standing in the next general election should declare for Leave or Remain outside all party rules and whips, then everyone could make a clear choice and everyone see a definitive result. 

[BobBKK]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

60% voted for leave parties, Brexit, Tory, Lab, UKip ......... all leave parties.

Remain in the form of ChangeUK got 2.9%,  & LibDems 18.5%

talk about twisting facts - here are the facts:

 

[dick dasterdly]

22 minutes ago, wilcopops said:

one of farage's complaints abut the EU is that it is undemocratic, yet he has been and ELECTED member for some time.....and now he seem's to think that this "undemocratic" vote gives him some kind of say in the UKc negotiating team. Hw never has been a member of the British parliament despite standing for election many times.

What is undeniable however is the thew largest number of votes in th EU elections were for a remain stance.

 

What is needed now is a General Election - no party could justify remaining in power after the cock ups of the last 2 or 3 years

There is nothing I would like more than a GE now - except that really would send our markets/exchange rate into a dive.☹️

[geoffbezoz]

8 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

There is nothing I would like more than a GE now - except that really would send our markets/exchange rate into a dive.☹️

But the result could reverse that just as dramatically if a party was elected that stated they supported a second referendum and/or withdrawal of the article 50 request.

[dick dasterdly]

29 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

60% voted for leave parties, Brexit, Tory, Lab, UKip ......... all leave parties.

Remain in the form of ChangeUK got 2.9%,  & LibDems 18.5%

 

I think to keep everything absolutely fair,

Every MP standing in the next general election should declare for Leave or Remain outside all party rules and whips, then everyone could make a clear choice and everyone see a definitive result. 

"60% voted for leave parties, Brexit, Tory, Lab, UKip ......... all leave parties.

Remain in the form of ChangeUK got 2.9%,  & LibDems 18.5%"

 

Precisely, it's easy to shape statistics to support a viewpoint - and this is evident by the inclusion of Green/SNP etc. in the remain statistics, ignoring the likely fact that a number of those who voted for these parties were less interested in brexit than the parties' other policies!

 

If not, they would have voted for the brexit party/ukip/change or libdems.

 

Agree entirely with your last para. - except the next GE will be a long time coming as a result of the eu elections.....  Politicians from both tory and labour are going to be very frightened and not stupid enough to call for a GE in the near future.

[Laughing Gravy]

16 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

talk about twisting facts - here are the facts:

 

You have done a great job of that, twisting the facts.

What are the Cons/Lab? Sit on the fence!  How do you know that those voters are not brexit voters. You make it sound like a football game that someone scored 3 goals but the opponents scored 5 goals and claimed victory. You can only polish a turd for so long.

[dick dasterdly]

8 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

But the result could reverse that just as dramatically if a party was elected that stated they supported a second referendum and/or withdrawal of the article 50 request.

Do you honestly think that the 'change' party or Lib Dems would win a GE?

 

In the same vein, do you honestly think that after the drubbing received by both the tories and labour at the EMP elections, they would either support the withdrawal of article 50 - or look for another quick GE?

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

You have done a great job of that, twisting the facts.

What are the Cons/Lab? Sit on the fence!  How do you know that those voters are not brexit voters. You make it sound like a football game that someone scored 3 goals but the opponents scored 5 goals and claimed victory. You can only polish a turd for so long.

The graphic could not be more simple.

 

Votes to parties backing hard Brexit.

Votes to Conservative/Labour (backing we don’t know what)

Votes to parties backing Remain.

 

It makes no claim either way for the Conservative/Labour vote. If you feel Brexiteers can claim those votes, you’ll need to demonstrate why.

[BritManToo]

12 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

If not, they would have voted for the brexit party/ukip/change or libdems.

Not only that, but if the Brexit party offered to form a government with the Greens (If you agree to leave we will vote with you on all other matters), does anyone really think the Greens wouldn't agree? Or the Libdems, Labour, Conservatives.

All these guys would sell their mothers/daughters to the devil (Farage?)for a chance to form the next government. Apart from Brexit party they've all made hundreds of election promises and could easily surrender one of them on the premise of fulfilling the others.

[geoffbezoz]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

Do you honestly think that the 'change' party or Lib Dems would win a GE?

 

In the same vein, do you honestly think that after the drubbing received by both the tories and labour at the EMP elections, they would either support the withdrawal of article 50 - or look for another quick GE?

Yes I do because too many are against what has been currently negotiated. Just a matter of time before a new GE is called.   Further many of them are looking to losing their seats in the next GE irrespective of their parties. As I have said before politicians are like ticks on a pigs back, they will jump to wherever they can get the best feed. Therefore at the next GE in perhaps September this year , the whole dynamics of political alliances could well change.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Do you honestly think that the 'change' party or Lib Dems would win a GE?

 

In the same vein, do you honestly think that after the drubbing received by both the tories and labour at the EMP elections, they would either support the withdrawal of article 50 - or look for another quick GE?

Perhaps not, but then neither did the Tories or Labour at the last election.

The Government hold power in a coalition bought from the DUP with tax payer money.

 

However, imagine for a moment Labour back a second referendum.

 

Check the news!

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Not only that, but if the Brexit party offered to form a government with the Greens (If you agree to leave we will vote with you on all other matters), does anyone really think the Greens wouldn't agree? Or the Libdems, Labour, Conservatives.

All these guys would sell their mothers/daughters to the devil (Farage?)for a chance to form the next government. Apart from Brexit party they've all made hundreds of election promises and could easily surrender one of them on the premise of fulfilling the others.

Now I know you are having a laugh.

 

[stephenterry]

19 hours ago, Loiner said:

We care that we have not Exited yet. The facts that we do know are that Remainers are still trying to cheat their way out of current legistlation for us to Withdraw from the EU. We know that the 'deal' which hasn't been agreed by Parliament is only a Merkel/May Surrender Treaty. That is only a preliminary capitulation which stitches us up before 'the deal' for post Brexit trade is even discussed. Those are the facts we know about deals.
This is all May's fault, the EU dirty trick dept, and the Remainers on both sides of the divide.

It's got nothing to do with leavers or remainers, but in the best interests of the UK. And, currently, Brexshit isn't, according to government economic statistics. 

 

As for the deal itself, I take it you have read the few hundred pages and are qualified to offer your opinion on it? Or has it come from the media who have quoted polarised MPS?

[geoffbezoz]

1 minute ago, stephenterry said:

It's got nothing to do with leavers or remainers, but in the best interests of the UK. And, currently, Brexshit isn't, according to government economic statistics. 

 

As for the deal itself, I take it you have read the few hundred pages and are qualified to offer your opinion on it? Or has it come from the media who have quoted polarised MPS?

Be mindful that significant tolerance and compassion should be shown towards Brexit supporters.  As most of the outside world knows, looking in on the UK's Brexit debacle,  reading and facts are not a pre-requisite to be a Brexit support, in fact the total opposite is true as being unable to comprehend economics  and not understanding facts, or at least denying them, is the prime aptitude needed in being a Brexit supporter, as is illustrated  by many TV posts. So lets have patience and ultimately commonsense and the whole stupidity of leaving the EU will eventually disappear.

[stevenl]

49 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

You have done a great job of that, twisting the facts.

What are the Cons/Lab? Sit on the fence!  How do you know that those voters are not brexit voters. You make it sound like a football game that someone scored 3 goals but the opponents scored 5 goals and claimed victory. You can only polish a turd for so long.

So sad you don't understand statistics at all. They sit on the fence, hence are not included in remain/leave. You want them included in leave, just as easy an argument could be made to include them in remain. After all, how do you know that those voters are not remain voters.

[Nanglon]

I prefer 'remain' but understand we lost due I think partly to the divisive nature of 50% + 1 (ok, ok 1.7m votes) and also understand a 'leave' poster who said any referendum should only be 2 choices leave with deal, or leave no deal respecting the vote.

 

So in order to overcome the parliamentary impasse, why not re-run referendum, due to the continuing division but instigate a min referendum of 60% required to effect any future change / introduction of something (money where our mouth is) and anything less than 60% remain, the original vote stands, bad luck we all accept the 'will' of the people and move on.

 

So everyone supposedly more informed, can confirm their wishes to break us out of the paralysis.