Buying a condo in Thai quota and changing it to foreign quota?

[scubascuba3]

If there is plenty of spare capacity for foreign quota how much does it cost to switch quota to foreign? and how simple is the process?

[geoffbezoz]

Well, I have no idea so obviously will need someone versed in Thai law to answer that, but all I would think it can not be simple. If it were then the 100,000s of thousands of Chinese hordes would have been up to those tricks by now do you not think ? Not to mention all the other shady foreigners that are around in Thailand. Of course the 49% foreign quota would still apply anyway  and how would this be possible as a foreigner has to show that the purchase money came into the country. There is a track for the money, not required for a Thai to buy. Would think that money laundering would be a big incentive if this were possible.

Edited May 30, 2019 by geoffbezoz

[baansgr]

No cost, normal transfer fees and taxes apply.

[scubascuba3]

Well, I have no idea so obviously will need someone versed in Thai law to answer that, but all I would think it can not be simple. If it were then the 100,000s of thousands of Chinese hordes would have been up to those tricks by now do you not think ? Not to mention all the other shady foreigners that are around in Thailand. Of course the 49% foreign quota would still apply anyway  and how would this be possible as a foreigner has to show that the purchase money came into the country. There is a track for the money, not required for a Thai to buy. Would think that money laundering would be a big incentive if this were possible.

If thai quota was say 80% foreign 20% then potentially 29% could be switched to foreign. Popular farang condo blocks are probably already up to the 49% limit

[scubascuba3]

No cost, normal transfer fees and taxes apply.

So a simple process at the land office? FET

[baansgr]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

2 hours ago, baansgr said:

No cost, normal transfer fees and taxes apply.

So a simple process at the land office? FET

FET, salse contracts, passport and ID, 

[expat_4_life]

I did this over a decade ago, as I recall you cannot transfer the title without a letter from the Juristic office, that clearly delineates the ownership. Assuming the Condo is under the quota, then the transfer goes thru - it's not technically switching, it is providing a declaration that foreign ownership does not exceed the threshold allowed under Thai law.

 

As mentioned above, no special fees or taxes apply.

Edited May 30, 2019 by expat_4_life

[LukKrueng]

4 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

If there is plenty of spare capacity for foreign quota how much does it cost to switch quota to foreign? and how simple is the process?

There is no such thing as a unit "under local/foreign quota".

The land department / juristic person have to make sure that at all times at least 51% of the units are registered to local owners. So if a Thai buys a unit, it makes no difference if bought from a local or a foreign owner. Seller and buyer can just go to the land office and change ownership. However if a foreigner buys a unit from a Thai person, he must bring a letter from the juristic person saying that at least 51% belong to Thais and that by a foreigner buying said unit this will still be true. No extra costs nor procedures. 

[scubascuba3]

There is no such thing as a unit "under local/foreign quota".
The land department / juristic person have to make sure that at all times at least 51% of the units are registered to local owners. So if a Thai buys a unit, it makes no difference if bought from a local or a foreign owner. Seller and buyer can just go to the land office and change ownership. However if a foreigner buys a unit from a Thai person, he must bring a letter from the juristic person saying that at least 51% belong to Thais and that by a foreigner buying said unit this will still be true. No extra costs nor procedures. 

So the land office don't record individual condos as local or foreign? it's just recorded by the juristic person if your condo is local or foreign?

[expat_4_life]

12 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

There is no such thing as a unit "under local/foreign quota".

The land department / juristic person have to make sure that at all times at least 51% of the units are registered to local owners. So if a Thai buys a unit, it makes no difference if bought from a local or a foreign owner. Seller and buyer can just go to the land office and change ownership. However if a foreigner buys a unit from a Thai person, he must bring a letter from the juristic person saying that at least 51% belong to Thais and that by a foreigner buying said unit this will still be true. No extra costs nor procedures. 

Technically this is false, there is no unit quota.  The law is 49% foreign ownership, maximum,  So, if a Thai owned a 200 SQM unit, it would be possible for (close to) 2 foreign owners to hold 100 SQM units.  The percentage is based on SQM.

[yankee99]

You definitely have to pay taxes because the company or thai who owns it will need to sell it to you. If you are director and i think shareholder you need to change that because you can not transfer to yourself. You will need a letter from the juristic to do this 

[LukKrueng]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

1 hour ago, LukKrueng said:

There is no such thing as a unit "under local/foreign quota".
The land department / juristic person have to make sure that at all times at least 51% of the units are registered to local owners. So if a Thai buys a unit, it makes no difference if bought from a local or a foreign owner. Seller and buyer can just go to the land office and change ownership. However if a foreigner buys a unit from a Thai person, he must bring a letter from the juristic person saying that at least 51% belong to Thais and that by a foreigner buying said unit this will still be true. No extra costs nor procedures. 

So the land office don't record individual condos as local or foreign? it's just recorded by the juristic person if your condo is local or foreign?

no they don't. The chanot is the same normal chanot and nowhere on it to say if it's on the 49% or 51% "part of the building"

 

1 hour ago, expat_4_life said:

Technically this is false, there is no unit quota.  The law is 49% foreign ownership, maximum,  So, if a Thai owned a 200 SQM unit, it would be possible for (close to) 2 foreign owners to hold 100 SQM units.  The percentage is based on SQM.

I don't know if it's by size or number of units (size makes sense as the monthly fee to the building is by size as well) however what I wrote in my first reely is the same - the units don't "belong" to this or that quota and there is no such "procedure" to change it

[scubascuba3]

I don't know if it's by size or number of units (size makes sense as the monthly fee to the building is by size as well) however what I wrote in my first reely is the same - the units don't "belong" to this or that quota and there is no such "procedure" to change it

You didn't answer the second part of the question "it's just recorded by the juristic person if your condo is local or foreign?"

[Suradit69]

6 hours ago, geoffbezoz said:

 

Well, I have no idea

 

Never an impediment here at TV. 

[LukKrueng]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

2 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

I don't know if it's by size or number of units (size makes sense as the monthly fee to the building is by size as well) however what I wrote in my first reply is the same - the units don't "belong" to this or that quota and there is no such "procedure" to change it

You didn't answer the second part of the question "it's just recorded by the juristic person if your condo is local or foreign?"

correct

[sfokevin]

Is there anyway to confirm a condos foreign percent of ownership separate from the building jurassic person?... I ask because there was a recent incident in Pattaya where the the jurassic took bribes to fake the foreign ownership?...

[Fairynuff]

34 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

Is there anyway to confirm a condos foreign percent of ownership separate from the building jurassic person?... I ask because there was a recent incident in Pattaya where the the jurassic took bribes to fake the foreign ownership?...

I’d suggest that the only other option might be the land office records but that’s just my thoughts.

[Sumarianson]

Just buy the condo. If the quota is less than 49% then you can buy. The Juristic and land registry sort all the rest out. I have done it. No problems and nothing extra to pay. You worry too much. Get an agent or solicitor with you at the land registry or at least a knowledgable Thai person with good english.

[scubascuba3]

Just buy the condo. If the quota is less than 49% then you can buy. The Juristic and land registry sort all the rest out. I have done it. No problems and nothing extra to pay. You worry too much. Get an agent or solicitor with you at the land registry or at least a knowledgable Thai person with good english.

No worrying at all. If foreign quota is less than 49% then i can buy thai quota which from what I've seen sells for less than foreign quota, at least some of the time anyway

[david555]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

3 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

I don't know if it's by size or number of units (size makes sense as the monthly fee to the building is by size as well) however what I wrote in my first reely is the same - the units don't "belong" to this or that quota and there is no such "procedure" to change it

You didn't answer the second part of the question "it's just recorded by the juristic person if your condo is local or foreign?"

And be sure to have a copy  on writing , stamped with his seal , and I.D. signed , just in case for years later  have proof , as juristic can make "mistake" involuntary or deliberately.... Or other Juristic could be there later ...

[LukKrueng]

53 minutes ago, david555 said:

And be sure to have a copy  on writing , stamped with his seal , and I.D. signed , just in case for years later  have proof , as juristic can make "mistake" involuntary or deliberately.... Or other Juristic could be there later ...

I don't see the point in that. Once the unit is under your name and in the chanot - that's it. The letter from juristic person states the ownership situation at that point in time, not for generation to come. The land office has no practical way to check the current ownership situation of all unit in a particular building which is why they relay on the letter from the juristic person. So checking the ownership situation at any point in time in the past is basically impossible for them.

[david555]

1 minute ago, LukKrueng said:

I don't see the point in that. Once the unit is under your name and in the chanot - that's it. The letter from juristic person states the ownership situation at that point in time, not for generation to come. The land office has no practical way to check the current ownership situation of all unit in a particular building which is why they relay on the letter from the juristic person. So checking the ownership situation at any point in time in the past is basically impossible for them. 

"The land office has no practical way to check the current ownership situation of all unit in a particular building which is why they relay on the letter from the juristic person. So checking the ownership situation at any point in time in the past is basically impossible for them. "

 

 

In case of suspected fraud of criminal misconduct by juristic they can do easy as they have all the plans with the sqm, it is them office who made them …, do not forget same as a wrong stamping by arrival Thai immigration we , the foreigners are responsible to check we got the right stamp 

 

Short said , it is not forced , but advisable to have that juristic document , just in case ,others it is your word against a Thai word if problem would arise later .... meaning ….you foreigner loose 

[LukKrueng]

47 minutes ago, david555 said:

"The land office has no practical way to check the current ownership situation of all unit in a particular building which is why they relay on the letter from the juristic person. So checking the ownership situation at any point in time in the past is basically impossible for them. "

 

 

In case of suspected fraud of criminal misconduct by juristic they can do easy as they have all the plans with the sqm, it is them office who made them …, do not forget same as a wrong stamping by arrival Thai immigration we , the foreigners are responsible to check we got the right stamp 

 

Short said , it is not forced , but advisable to have that juristic document , just in case ,others it is your word against a Thai word if problem would arise later .... meaning ….you foreigner loose 

Have you ever heard of a case where a foreigner's condo ownership was revoked due to out of quota buying? If so, how long after the date of purchase?

[Wake Up]

13 hours ago, geoffbezoz said:

Well, I have no idea so obviously will need someone versed in Thai law to answer that, but all I would think it can not be simple. If it were then the 100,000s of thousands of Chinese hordes would have been up to those tricks by now do you not think ? Not to mention all the other shady foreigners that are around in Thailand. Of course the 49% foreign quota would still apply anyway  and how would this be possible as a foreigner has to show that the purchase money came into the country. There is a track for the money, not required for a Thai to buy. Would think that money laundering would be a big incentive if this were possible.

You should have stopped at “I have no idea” 

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, LukKrueng said:

Have you ever heard of a case where a foreigner's condo ownership was revoked due to out of quota buying? If so, how long after the date of purchase?

 

Chanotes get revoked all the time. Birthdefects can easily revoke a chanote even after a long time. Having the chanote in your name is not enough security.

If there was fraud you can easily lose the chanote and it gets returned to the real owner. It's like buying a stolen car - your problem.

Real countries like the US who have similar systems have title insurance for that reason, no insurance would be crazy enough to insure in thailand tho.

It's absolutely necessary for every real estate transaction that's pricey to due a proper due diligence report which includes all of the chanote history and surrounding areas too.

Edited May 30, 2019 by ThomasThBKK

[david555]

1 hour ago, LukKrueng said:

Have you ever heard of a case where a foreigner's condo ownership was revoked due to out of quota buying? If so, how long after the date of purchase?

Not exact same , but there was a period in time the Gov. relaxed the condos to more than 49 % for foreigners (something as 52% ) , but those are revoked back to 49% , can stay in foreign name for present owner , but not anymore sold to another foreigner in foreign name .

 

But let me take short the discussion ,about keeping a copy of that juristic letter….., I only advised , no force to do , just same I keep always a copy from any money I keep cash and not on bank . just a precaution.

Be very free to do nothing or keep nothing , I know what a find safe to do in Thailand for myself .  

Edited May 30, 2019 by david555

[scubascuba3]

8 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

Have you ever heard of a case where a foreigner's condo ownership was revoked due to out of quota buying? If so, how long after the date of purchase?

In April the Juristic of the Base in Pattaya issued a letter to residents saying the foreign quota had exceeded 49%, this means foreign will have to sell as thai until the 49% is reached. This means those selling will lose money

Edited May 30, 2019 by scubascuba3

[Peterw42]

16 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

8 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

Have you ever heard of a case where a foreigner's condo ownership was revoked due to out of quota buying? If so, how long after the date of purchase?

In April the Juristic of the Base in Pattaya issued a letter to residents saying the foreign quota had exceeded 49%, this means foreign will have to sell as thai until the 49% is reached. This means those selling will lose money

Only if they choose to sell during the period the quota has been exceeded. A month later, 2-3 condos have changed hands and the quota is probably back to normal.

Wife worked in a condo office and it used to happen now and then, they would have 1 space left in the foreign quota and unknown to the condo office 2-3 sales would be completed at the land office, going over the quota.

The condo office gives a letter saying as of todays date quota is available, then they have no idea whether the sale went through, another person wants a letter and the office hasn't been advised of a sale, so they issue another letter.

The system is flawed in that regard as there are not daily advices from the land office back to the condo office.

[scubascuba3]

Only if they choose to sell during the period the quota has been exceeded. A month later, 2-3 condos have changed hands and the quota is probably back to normal.
Wife worked in a condo office and it used to happen now and then, they would have 1 space left in the foreign quota and unknown to the condo office 2-3 sales would be completed at the land office, going over the quota.
The condo office gives a letter saying as of todays date quota is available, then they have no idea whether the sale went through, another person wants a letter and the office hasn't been advised of a sale, so they issue another letter.
The system is flawed in that regard as there are not daily advices from the land office back to the condo office.

But if foreign is selling to foreign the quota should remain unchanged?

[KittenKong]

50 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

The system is flawed in that regard as there are not daily advices from the land office back to the condo office.

I think the flaw in the system is that it isnt handled 100% by the Land Office. Any system that relies on individual JPMs preparing these lists is bound to be inaccurate and to encourage fraud.

I know of some cases where the ratio document from the JPM was a complete forgery, right down to the signature, and that wasnt even the JPM's fault.