Sending food back to the kitchen?

[webfact]

UK PM candidate Gove: rushed no-deal Brexit would give Labour's Corbyn power

By Guy Faulconbridge

 

Britain's Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Michael Gove is seen outside the Cabinet Office in London, Britain May 14, 2019. REUTERS/Hannah Mckay/File Photo

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Michael Gove, a leading contenders to replace British Prime Minister Theresa May, said he would delay Brexit rather than rush into a no-deal exit that could trigger an election that would propel Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn to power.

 

The United Kingdom could be heading towards a constitutional crisis over Brexit as many of the candidates vying to succeed May are prepared to leave the EU on Oct. 31 without a deal but parliament has indicated it will try to thwart such a scenario.

 

Nearly three years since the United Kingdom voted 52%-48% to leave the EU, the ruling Conservative Party had its worst result in centuries in a European election last month, and opinion polls indicate a snap election would produce a hung parliament.

 

Gove, who scuppered the 2016 leadership bid of former foreign minister Boris Johnson by withdrawing his support at the last moment to run himself, said he would seek a further delay toBrexit if efforts to renegotiate the deal were close to a breakthrough.

 

"Would it really be in our best interests to opt for a no-deal exit when just a little more time and effort could make all the difference?" Gove said in an article in the Daily Mail newspaper.

 

Other contenders - including Johnson, Andrea Leadsom, Dominic Raab and Sajid Javid - have said they would seek to negotiate a deal but, if that were not possible, they would then lead the world's fifth largest economy out of the EU without any agreement.

 

Gove said to rush into a no-deal exit would lead to a Labour government propped up by the Scottish National Party which wants another referendum on Scottish independence.

 

"That would surely hand Downing Street to a Jeremy Corbyn government propped up by Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP. That would mean Brexit was lost, the future of our Union at risk and the levers of power handed to a Marxist," he wrote.

 

Some European officials have cautioned that London will find it hard to delay Brexit again as EU leaders question what would be the point of an extension.

 

"It would be very, very, very difficult to reach an agreement on another extension, if at all requested," said a senior government official of one EU member state who deals with EU affairs, including Brexit.

 

NO DEAL?

May's failure to deliver Brexit by the original March 29 deadline destroyed her premiership. But any new British prime minister, expected to be in place by the last days of July, will face a deadlocked political system.

 

Parliament has repeatedly rejected May's EU divorce deal but also failed to agree on how, when or even if the United Kingdom will leave the club it joined in 1973.

 

If a British leader went for a no-deal Brexit, lawmakers have vowed to prevent it. The easiest way would be to bring down the government in a vote of no confidence.

 

While the Conservative Party's lawmakers, who get the first say on who should be prime minister, are divided over Brexit, the party's 160,000 members, who get the final vote on candidates in a run off, are much more supportive of leaving without agreement.

 

The EU has refused to renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement reached with May last November, and Ireland has indicated it is not willing to discuss changes to the Irish border "backstop" that upset the party which props up May's minority government.

 

The backstop -- designed to ensure frictionless trade between Northern Ireland and Ireland -- would force the UK to follow many EU rules unless and until "alternative arrangements" ensuring no hard border were agreed.

 

"We need a new approach to Northern Ireland," said Gove, a 51-year-old environment minister. "We have to remove any risk that we could be trapped in a backstop, so I will work with the Irish government and Brussels to secure a clear exit mechanism."

 

Gove, a prominent Brexit campaigner during the 2016 referendum, said he was convinced the EU would negotiate and he said he wanted a bespoke Canada-style trade deal.

 

"Always choose Brexit over no Brexit," Gove said. "If, finally, it comes to a decision between no deal and no Brexit, I will choose no deal."

 

(Additional reporting by Gabriela Baczynska in Brussels)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-06-07

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[helpisgood]

It sounds like this "Irish backstop" issue is an important sticking point for Brexit.  I have some familiarity for what has been called "The Troubles" in No. Ireland, because it was in the US news and I had lived through them. 

 

This is not a rhetorical question.  I really do not know.  During the Brexit campaign, how well, if at all, was this backstop problem discussed?  Were the electorate given enough information of the potential problems this "backstop" could raise, and/or given sensible solutions for it, if the "leave" campaign would win? 

 

I do not mean to take sides here, because I am not that well informed of all the Brexit issues.  I would just like to learn more, especially since I feel very bad for the turbulence that has followed the Brexit vote. 

 

The UK is too fine a nation to be agitated, especially for so long, by all of this.  I am sure that many would like to have spent more time on other problems and for a smoother Brexit.  I wish for a sensible and satisfying solution, whatever that may be, for the British people and all the others so affected.   

 

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by helpisgood

[Orton Rd]

How can three years four months of dithering and weak negotiations be 'rushed'?

Edited June 7, 2019 by Orton Rd

[pegman]

it's about time that Labour were given a chance to solve the impasse. These Tory buffoons are just running around in circles. 

[malagateddy]

it's about time that Labour were given a chance to solve the impasse. These Tory buffoons are just running around in circles. 

Imo..labour could not organise a piss up at a brewery

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Chomper Higgot]

Gove is almost certainly mindful of the number of points swing Corbyn achieved in the last election.

 

And the fact a PM trying to force a ‘Hard Brexit’ would almost certainly lead to a vote of no confidence.

[tebee]

1 hour ago, helpisgood said:

It sounds like this "Irish backstop" issue is an important sticking point for Brexit.  I have some familiarity for what has been called "The Troubles" in No. Ireland, because it was in the US news and I had lived through them. 

 

This is not a rhetorical question.  I really do not know.  During the Brexit campaign, how well, if at all, was this backstop problem discussed?  Were the electorate given enough information of the potential problems this "backstop" could raise, and/or given sensible solutions for it, if the "leave" campaign would win? 

 

......

 

 

Before the referendum no one ever thought about how brexit would affect NI. There were a few perceptive souls who pointed out that many forms of brexit were incompatible with the existing good Friday treaty, but no mainstream media or politician ever thought about it.

 

To be fair, there were forms of brexit being bandied about then that would not have caused problems, the soft or Norway option, but May's red lines ruled those out.

 

The backstop is a bodge that no one likes to try to solve the unsolvable.   

[sammieuk1]

Looks like someone left the hamster cage open as the squeaking begins and the pound sinks even lower????

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, pegman said:

it's about time that Labour were given a chance to solve the impasse. These Tory buffoons are just running around in circles. 

After "Zippy" took to the streets against Trump this week Labour are a spent force under his/front bench leadership. If the tories don't deliver on 31 October the batten will be handed to Farage after the next election.

Edited June 7, 2019 by evadgib

[norfolkc]

The NI backstop is as big a problem as you need it to be caused by Remainers the EU and Southern Ireland who are being pressured by the EU to block brexit there is no problem but a created one 

Quote

 

 

[stephenterry]

21 minutes ago, evadgib said:

After "Zippy" took to the streets against Trump this week Labour are a spent force under his leadership. If the tories don't deliver on 31 October the batten will be handed to Farage after the next election.

Farage? What a laugh. And then what after he dumps UK outside the EU? Trouble with leaving is that there is NO PLAN.

 

I don't know how many more times I have to point out that there is no point in leaving until whoever is in power, has a structured approach to what happens next - and how it would benefit the UK.

 

Johnson, forget him - he's just as clueless as Farage. If the Tories elect him, bye bye Scotland. Leadsom lives in cloud cuckoo land - what's a 'managed exit' for god's sake? just a euphemism for a 'no deal' exit. She must think Tory MP voters are as stupid as brexiteers.

 

One or two other contenders, particularly Gove, at least have an idea of the way forward that would benefit Britain. Even if Gove is not the billboard type, he would run the civil service show and get results - IMO. Probably the best of a bad bunch.

 

[stephenterry]

14 minutes ago, norfolkc said:

The NI backstop is as big a problem as you need it to be caused by Remainers the EU and Southern Ireland who are being pressured by the EU to block brexit there is no problem but a created one 

 

So you have been included in the talks, then? Ignore the Good Friday agreement? Let ireland sink beneath the sea?

 

And as a truism, it's the brexiteers that have brought about the impasse by voting to leave the EU, but I suspect that goes over leavers' heads.

 

IMO, your statements are not backed up with any facts - perhaps provide a link, if you're going to blame everyone else but the leavers - which seems to be the one thing Brexiteers are good at. Always someone else's fault, mantra. 

 

 

[evadgib]

18 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Farage? What a laugh. And then what after he dumps UK outside the EU? Trouble with leaving is that there is NO PLAN.

It could be worse...(????)

(Labour retained Peterborough by less that 700 votes for those that are interested).

Edited June 7, 2019 by evadgib

[stephenterry]

4 minutes ago, evadgib said:

It could be worse...????

BTW: Labour retained Peterborough by less that 700 votes for those that are interested.

The MRLP have actually brought about several beneficial changes to UK society by pressurising the government in their time. No doubt you could Google it.

 

And the Peterborough result indicates that whilst Labour sit on the fence, in a GE, they will lose votes in constituencies favouring Farage and Lib Dems. 

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, helpisgood said:

It sounds like this "Irish backstop" issue is an important sticking point for Brexit.  I have some familiarity for what has been called "The Troubles" in No. Ireland, because it was in the US news and I had lived through them. 

 

This is not a rhetorical question.  I really do not know.  During the Brexit campaign, how well, if at all, was this backstop problem discussed?  Were the electorate given enough information of the potential problems this "backstop" could raise, and/or given sensible solutions for it, if the "leave" campaign would win? 

 

I do not mean to take sides here, because I am not that well informed of all the Brexit issues.  I would just like to learn more, especially since I feel very bad for the turbulence that has followed the Brexit vote. 

 

The UK is too fine a nation to be agitated, especially for so long, by all of this.  I am sure that many would like to have spent more time on other problems and for a smoother Brexit.  I wish for a sensible and satisfying solution, whatever that may be, for the British people and all the others so affected.   

 

 

 

In short, the answer is no. Nothing was ever discussed about the Irish borders, the impact on the Good Friday agreement, or anything related. To be fair nothing was discussed in any detail or depth about what leaving would really mean. Focus was on red herrings - lies about money and "savings" and how they could be spent for "the benefit of the people", hyperbole about sovereignty, legal jurisdiction and both sides engaged in 'project fear".

 

It's this background that prompted many to demand a new referendum in which all facts, not lies, are presented with consequences and predicted outcome possibilities.

[Baerboxer]

37 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

The MRLP have actually brought about several beneficial changes to UK society by pressurising the government in their time. No doubt you could Google it.

 

And the Peterborough result indicates that whilst Labour sit on the fence, in a GE, they will lose votes in constituencies favouring Farage and Lib Dems. 

 

Indeed. What was interesting, or worrying, was that the Brexit Party did so well in Peterborough. Showing that some will vote for someone whose organization has no real policies and just one item on its agenda. Scary.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

After "Zippy" took to the streets against Trump this week Labour are a spent force under his/front bench leadership. If the tories don't deliver on 31 October the batten will be handed to Farage after the next election.

 

You'd expect disgruntled Labor voters, and those left of center, to move to LibDem as commie Corbyn and his very left wing mates and Momentum shift Labor to the far left. But it seems many are going over to the far right Farage despite the Brexit Party not actually being a real political party, nor having any policies on anything apart from Brexit and Farage's views on the NHS.

 

As much as I think it would be a massive disaster, I can see what you say happening. People are getting more and more frustrated and angry.

 

Being interesting to see how spiv Farage handles Ireland, Northern Ireland and Sturgeon.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, stephenterry said:

Farage? What a laugh. And then what after he dumps UK outside the EU? Trouble with leaving is that there is NO PLAN.

 

I don't know how many more times I have to point out that there is no point in leaving until whoever is in power, has a structured approach to what happens next - and how it would benefit the UK.

 

Johnson, forget him - he's just as clueless as Farage. If the Tories elect him, bye bye Scotland. Leadsom lives in cloud cuckoo land - what's a 'managed exit' for god's sake? just a euphemism for a 'no deal' exit. She must think Tory MP voters are as stupid as brexiteers.

 

One or two other contenders, particularly Gove, at least have an idea of the way forward that would benefit Britain. Even if Gove is not the billboard type, he would run the civil service show and get results - IMO. Probably the best of a bad bunch.

 

And why do you think that after more than 3 years there is no post Brexit plan? If there is no plan then the current government is totally to blame for that

 

Don't blame Farage or JC and the Labour party or anyone else. They have had zero input on Brexit.

 

BTW Gove and all the other wannabe PM's have all been remainers and now they are all fighting to be No 1.

 

The only way that Labour will gain control is after a general election and there is no cast iron guarantee that they will win.

 

2 hours ago, stephenterry said:

So you have been included in the talks, then? Ignore the Good Friday agreement? Let ireland sink beneath the sea?

 

And as a truism, it's the brexiteers that have brought about the impasse by voting to leave the EU, but I suspect that goes over leavers' heads.

 

IMO, your statements are not backed up with any facts - perhaps provide a link, if you're going to blame everyone else but the leavers - which seems to be the one thing Brexiteers are good at. Always someone else's fault, mantra. 

 

 

Were the leavers in control of Brexit?

 

Not at all as it was handed to Teresa May and the elected government of Remainers to do the job.

 

So who do you blame for NOT doing their job?

[Laughing Gravy]

It is funny how 1.4 million more is insignificant but 700 is a resounding victory. I wont be calling for another by election vote as I believe in democracy or throwing milkshakes at people because we differ in opinion. There will be no crying rooms to visit or shouting a democratically elected world leaders.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

It is funny how 1.4 million more is insignificant but 700 is a resounding victory. I wont be calling for another by election vote as I believe in democracy or throwing milkshakes at people because we differ in opinion. There will be no crying rooms to visit or shouting a democratically elected world leaders.

It’s funny how you don’t understand the difference between a single constituency bi-election and a national referendum.

[Chomper Higgot]

12 minutes ago, billd766 said:

And why do you think that after more than 3 years there is no post Brexit plan? If there is no plan then the current government is totally to blame for that

 

Don't blame Farage or JC and the Labour party or anyone else. They have had zero input on Brexit.

 

BTW Gove and all the other wannabe PM's have all been remainers and now they are all fighting to be No 1.

 

The only way that Labour will gain control is after a general election and there is no cast iron guarantee that they will win.

 

Were the leavers in control of Brexit?

 

Not at all as it was handed to Teresa May and the elected government of Remainers to do the job.

 

So who do you blame for NOT doing their job?

It’s always somebody else’s fault.

[beautifulthailand99]

7 hours ago, evadgib said:

After "Zippy" took to the streets against Trump this week Labour are a spent force under his/front bench leadership. If the tories don't deliver on 31 October the batten will be handed to Farage after the next election.

err no it won't #peterboroughlosing it will go to Comrade Corbyn - just listen to this and the childish idiots who cheer this nonsense - why doesn't he take up flying again? He's the one who stole your baht and he keeps on stealing them and you keep on cheering. There's no fool like an old fool. 

 

Here's what poundshop fascism looks like - he slunk off after he lost. 

 

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

err no it won't #peterboroughlosing it will go to Comrade Corbyn - just listen to this and the childish idiots who cheer this nonsense - why doesn't he take up flying again? He's the one who stole your baht and he keeps on stealing them and you keep on cheering. There's no fool like an old fool. 

 

Here's what poundshop fascism looks like - he slunk off after he lost. 

 

 

How did you figure that he was stealing my Thai baht?

 

Apart from getting the referendum started 3 years ago he left it in the "trusted" hands of the government and parliament. They decided in all their immense knowledge (which is injected into them when they become MPs) that the 650 MPs knew far more that the electorate who put them into power.

 

Any loss in forex between the GBP/THB was inflicted solely by the cabinet of Remainers who totally ignored the electorate and this is the result.

 

Please carefully note that Nigel Farage had NO input into the Brexit strategy and the very few Brexiteers in the government were completely overruled by the PM.

 

BTW it is not only the GBP that has gone down against the THB but most other currencies also.

 

Ask the Aussies how they feel about the AUD/THB, or the USA, Canadian citizens, and they can't even blame Brexit.

 

quote from your post.

 

"There's no fool like an old fool." In this case it seems to be true, and it is you.

Edited June 7, 2019 by billd766
Added extra text

[evadgib]

For 'Anger' @beautifulthailand99 & Co should perhaps read 'Prophecy'.

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by evadgib

[evadgib]

How's this for the kiss of death for Gove? ????

 

[Chomper Higgot]

25 minutes ago, evadgib said:

For 'Anger' @beautifulthailand99 & Co should perhaps read 'Prophecy'.

 

One day after failing to gain a seat in Parliament.

 

The response from the electorate and the PM.

 

Copulate off. 

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

How did you figure that he was stealing my Thai baht?

 

Apart from getting the referendum started 3 years ago he left it in the "trusted" hands of the government and parliament. They decided in all their immense knowledge (which is injected into them when they become MPs) that the 650 MPs knew far more that the electorate who put them into power.

 

Any loss in forex between the GBP/THB was inflicted solely by the cabinet of Remainers who totally ignored the electorate and this is the result.

 

Please carefully note that Nigel Farage had NO input into the Brexit strategy and the very few Brexiteers in the government were completely overruled by the PM.

 

BTW it is not only the GBP that has gone down against the THB but most other currencies also.

 

Ask the Aussies how they feel about the AUD/THB, or the USA, Canadian citizens, and they can't even blame Brexit.

 

quote from your post.

 

"There's no fool like an old fool." In this case it seems to be true, and it is you.

555 like all Brexitteers they huff and they puff and then they walk away when there's real work to be done rather than grandstanding with cheap soundbites and outright lies. Always someone else's fault. The only fools are those that believe a No Deal will lead to a land of milk and honey. You still don't get it do you Dyson - moved to Singapore, JRM moved his funds to Dublin, Redwood tells his investors not to back Britain essentially. A rich cabal of the elites they profess to despise are gaming the UK for their own ends. 

 

Have a read again of Peter Oborne - an arch leaver who saw sense and ask yourself who is the fool? Let me summarise his bullets points for those that have a problem reading a few pages.  It's no coincidence that the English football hooligans have a new pro-Brexit chant as they cause mayhem in hapless Portugal and Stephen Yaxley-CokeHead Lennon throws a punch at a fan. 

 

• I was a strong Brexiteer. Now we must swallow our pride and think again
• There’s zero chance of a sensible Brexit amidst the pandemonium and hysteria at Westminster just now
• The economic arguments for Brexit have been destroyed by a series of shattering blows
• Economic disaster
• Britain’s departure from the EU will be as great a disaster for our country as the over-mighty unions were in the 1960s and 1970s
• When hedge-fund managers and the Communist Party see eye-to-eye on any question, it’s time to be concerned
• Well done Britain for challenging remote oligarchs based in Brussels
• The European Union is not a dictatorship
• The UK will be weaker and more isolated
• Like almost everybody else I underestimated the importance of the Good Friday Agreement
• Phrases such as 'vassal state', 'empire' and 'supplicant' do not even remotely characterise our relation with Europe

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/i-was-strong-brexiteer-now-we-must-swallow-our-pride-and-think-again/

Edited June 7, 2019 by beautifulthailand99

[beautifulthailand99]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

One day after failing to gain a seat in Parliament.

 

The response from the electorate and the PM.

 

Copulate off. 

Consider him milkshaped...

 

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

One day after failing to gain a seat in Parliament.

 

The response from the electorate and the PM.

 

Copulate off. 

The fact that they're photographed today outside no10 leads me to suspect that they're being taken a little more seriously than you'd have us believe.

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by evadgib

[Scott]

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