Terminating staff

[Steven T]

A few years back we set a company and had a few members of staff on commission only. Most of those staff are now working on a monthly salary. None of them has a written contract only verbal, with an outline, of what their role requires. It's a sales job so they don't actually work from an office. Most are doing a pretty poor job, not dealing with customers to pretty much ignoring them. I'm considering getting rid or thinking about introducing targets that they must hit to in order to stay employed. Am I on dodgy ground here? I can't seem to find much information on getting rid of staff who underperform. 

[Kwasaki]

Surely you employ a Thai manager of sorts get them to sort a target or phone numbers list to show they are at least trying.

[stephehr]

Just say bye nothing else no contract NO NOTHING

[BAYBOY]

Easy...google www.labour.go.th

Download the pdf  "Thai Labour Law"  explains all. 

You must have a valid reason for dismissal of staff, On termination, you must at the same time, pay any oustanding wages, possibly severance pay.

Remember the Thai/ Foreign staff are treated the same under Thai law.

Failure to do as the law states could mean the employee could take you to court if monies owed, and claim full damages ie lawyers fees, other costs, etc.

The Labour Courts can be time consuming....possibly several months, and you would also have your Lawyers fees as well.

 

Been there done that 9 months to get judgement....and I won most not all.

 

Cheers BAYBOY.

[sead]

Usually they need to sell xx to get bonus. Have a weekly/monthly contest where the best seller gets xx bonus and or a increase in salary. Forbid use of smartphones/ smoking in working hours, that will quickly make most of them quit by themselves

[Steven T]

21 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Surely you employ a Thai manager of sorts get them to sort a target or phone numbers list to show they are at least trying.

Don't employ a Thai manager it obviously was never a problem when they were on commission only. It was pretty naive tbf.

 

51 minutes ago, BAYBOY said:

Easy...google www.labour.go.th

Download the pdf  "Thai Labour Law"  explains all. 

You must have a valid reason for dismissal of staff, On termination, you must at the same time, pay any oustanding wages, possibly severance pay.

Remember the Thai/ Foreign staff are treated the same under Thai law.

Failure to do as the law states could mean the employee could take you to court if monies owed, and claim full damages ie lawyers fees, other costs, etc.

The Labour Courts can be time consuming....possibly several months, and you would also have your Lawyers fees as well.

 

Been there done that 9 months to get judgement....and I won most not all.

 

Cheers BAYBOY.

Unless I've missed it it doesn't say anything about staff on a sales target or adding a sales target and dismissing them if it is not hit over a certain amount of months.   

50 minutes ago, sead said:

Usually they need to sell xx to get bonus. Have a weekly/monthly contest where the best seller gets xx bonus and or a increase in salary. Forbid use of smartphones/ smoking in working hours, that will quickly make most of them quit by themselves

I'd rather not get rid of the staff, they were at one point pretty good. They currently receive a monthly salary plus expenses and 35 per cent commission but they seem more than happy to just accept the salary. They also work from home and not out of an office. With no written contract.

[snowgard]

To pay just a comission is illegal in Thailand. The law says clearly that for every work you have pay the minimum wage or more. This mean you can let they work for the minimum wage plus a commission. But not only for a commission. This is illegal.

The labour law is not worry the workers have a contract because it give the labour law.

Also to pay just comission is illegal in Thailand. The law say clearly that for every work you have pay the minimum wage or more. This mean you can let they work for the minimum wage plus a commission. But not only for a commission. This is illegal.

The labour office is not worry the workers have a contract because it give the labour law.
 

Edited June 13, 2019 by snowgard

[Steven T]

27 minutes ago, snowgard said:

To pay just a comission is illegal in Thailand. The law says clearly that for every work you have pay the minimum wage or more. This mean you can let they work for the minimum wage plus a commission. But not only for a commission. This is illegal.

The labour law is not worry the workers have a contract because it give the labour law.

Also to pay just comission is illegal in Thailand. The law say clearly that for every work you have pay the minimum wage or more. This mean you can let they work for the minimum wage plus a commission. But not only for a commission. This is illegal.

The labour office is not worry the workers have a contract because it give the labour law.
 

This was going back quite a few years ago. So I'm not sure if anything has changed since then. At the time some of the staff only wanted to work for commission only. I still have one member of staff that refuses the monthly salary,  (her commission rates are slightly higher) she's very good at what she does and likes the freedom. 

[snowgard]

But this is not about the staff. This is the law. It gives good sellers and bad sellers. The bad sellers can work the full week but not sell something so they worked fulltime and earned nothing!!! This cannot be. About this Thailand have this law. ????

[Tropicalevo]

Talk to your local labour office before your staff do.

 

I have had a number of issues of underperforming staff, drunk at work, taking drugs etc. I always call the local labour office and ask them what to do. Problem fixed.

 

Are you paying taxes and social security for the staff? This may make a difference.

[Steven T]

4 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

Talk to your local labour office before your staff do.

 

I have had a number of issues of underperforming staff, drunk at work, taking drugs etc. I always call the local labour office and ask them what to do. Problem fixed.

 

Are you paying taxes and social security for the staff? This may make a difference.

Yep. Paying taxes and social. It's not minimum wage either, and they don't work full time. It's a pretty good deal. The underperformance is not from drink and drugs they've just become lazy. I think a fair sales target is the way to proceed but not sure if you can get rid of them for repeatedly missing the targets. I think however from what I've read I could issue warnings for other parts of the job they aren't doing. Following leads etc... and terminate the contracts that way. As I said I would rather not get rid of them anyway. I'll give the local labour office a bell.

[PerkinsCuthbert]

I've always found electrocution cost-effective in Thailand, particularly if you can hook up to next door's supply.

[scorecard]

6 hours ago, stephehr said:

Just say bye nothing else no contract NO NOTHING

Not so fast, in Thai law there are circumstances where verbal agreements are recognised as equal to written agreements as is true in many countries. Best to get this checked at the labour ministry.

 

The Thai Labour Ministry main office at Din Daeng has a department which is focused on helping non-Thai people (people who don't read / write Thai language) who need advice and all the Thai staff in this office speak English, they are very focused, resourceful, they listen well show respect and very helpful. Their office is on the ground level of the main Labour ministry office, just opposite the giant Thai-Japanese stadium, it's well signed on the outside in English. 

 

I agree that the OP must carefully move to a situation where there are written and very clear  targets and deadline times and clear written explanations of what happens when targets are / are not achieved.

 

Possible need to hold a company meeting, insisting everybody attends, ask clearly that people turn off their phones and explain with some PowerPoint slides or simple documents, with graphic that the company cannot continue like this or the company will fail and all jobs are finished. stop after maybe 10 minutes and politely ask an employee to explain it back by saying 'this is not a test, I want to be sure I am not confusing anybody, that's not OK', or similar, and continuously ask if anybody has questions, including ask people to write questions in Thai, no name on the paper etc.

 

Also mention that 'from today all employees will have a written contract with specific targets, deadline dates and times, and ensure this is reedy in advance does happen and is not delayed for any reason.  

 

Ensure the individual contracts are signed correctly and ensure the employee signs, the contracts should mention that all staff will have a 5 or 10 minute meeting at the end of each month to discuss their achievements. That meeting should start with a clear desk and one piece of paper on the desk, with the personal target details, then ask the question 'did you achieve this target?' The boss should then be quiet and say nothing, prompting the employee to realize the boss is serious and is waiting for an answer, etc.

 

Also mention in the contract that 'after today all old contracts written or spoken are totally cancelled and this should be clearly mentioned in the meeting handout. 

 

Also very important is that staff can actually see changes; example, make a point about customer satisfaction and many complaints and show a diagram of how part of the office will be converted to a customer service centre, better still the staff can see construction is already started, or similar. In other words ensure the staff can SEE change and this brings a stronger possibility of changes of attitude, more focus etc.  Without seeing that change is happening there's a strong possibility they will unconsciously see 'it's all the same as yesterday, last week, last month. Back to sleep.

 

All of the above takes time, quite some effort and can be emotional, if some staff vote with their feet probably no great loss.

 

But better than bankruptcy or continuing a situation where the return on investment is much less than it could be. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by scorecard

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, snowgard said:

To pay just a comission is illegal in Thailand. The law says clearly that for every work you have pay the minimum wage or more. This mean you can let they work for the minimum wage plus a commission. But not only for a commission. This is illegal.

The labour law is not worry the workers have a contract because it give the labour law.

Also to pay just comission is illegal in Thailand. The law say clearly that for every work you have pay the minimum wage or more. This mean you can let they work for the minimum wage plus a commission. But not only for a commission. This is illegal.

The labour office is not worry the workers have a contract because it give the labour law.
 

Are you not able to enter into a contractual commission structure for self employed staff who invoice your for work done ?? 

 

Should be simple to 'shift' them onto that policy.. 

[snowgard]

No!!! Not here in Thailand. It not give the self employed system on the same way you know it from your home country because to much companies would try to cheat their workers with a system like this.

 

You can make a contract like this with your workers, but if get in trouble with one and him walk into the labour office they will tell you that this is illegal in Thailand. 

[Steven T]

12 hours ago, snowgard said:

No!!! Not here in Thailand. It not give the self employed system on the same way you know it from your home country because to much companies would try to cheat their workers with a system like this.

 

You can make a contract like this with your workers, but if get in trouble with one and him walk into the labour office they will tell you that this is illegal in Thailand. 

Where does it actually say this? Can you send a link?

[snowgard]

https://www.labour.go.th/en/attachments/article/18/Labour_Protection_Act_BE2541.pdf

You must read it right!!!