Authorities discuss regulation of short-term accommodation in Phuket

[snoop1130]

Authorities discuss regulation of short-term accommodation in Phuket

By The Phuket News

 

In attendance were Secretary-General of the Office of the Ombudsman of Thailand, Raksagecha Chaechai, Phuket V/Gov Supoj Rotreuang Na Nongkhai, and Chief Administrative Officer (Palad) of the Phuket Provincial Office, Anupong Wawongmoon. Photo: PR Dept

 

PHUKET:-- A meeting was held at Phuket Provincial Hall yesterday (June 13) to discuss ways to regulate the rapidly growing market of short-term property rentals via applications such as Airbnb.

 

Among attendees were Secretary-General of the Office of the Ombudsman of Thailand, Raksagecha Chaechai, who chaired the meeting; Phuket Vice Governor Supoj Rotreuang Na Nongkhai; and Chief Administrative Officer (Palad) of the Phuket Provincial Office, Anupong Wawongmoon.

 

The aim of the meeting was to exchange ideas on how to regulate the market and to stop people from renting out their properties illegally.

Full Story: https://www.thephuketnews.com/authorities-discuss-regulation-of-short-term-accommodation-in-phuket-71794.php#QDjpwCC8s80qY3ET.97

 

-- © Copyright Phuket News 2019-06-14

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[from the home of CC]

ever hear a .44 being cocked...

[bluesofa]

"The meeting was set up following inspections conducted by the Office of the Ombudsman which found that such property rental businesses are unapproved by law and can lead to various problems relating to unpaid taxes, guest safety, neighbourhood disturbances and contractual disputes."

 

"unapproved by law" - is this a translation error?

I thought short-term rentals of less than thirty days were 'illegal'?

 

[GeorgeCross]

looking more and more like they are not going to shut it all down but regulate instead.

 

early days but a good step forward as things are getting out of control

 

will be interesting to see what they come up with

 

 

[GeorgeCross]

8 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

"The meeting was set up following inspections conducted by the Office of the Ombudsman which found that such property rental businesses are unapproved by law and can lead to various problems relating to unpaid taxes, guest safety, neighbourhood disturbances and contractual disputes."

 

"unapproved by law" - is this a translation error?

I thought short-term rentals of less than thirty days were 'illegal'?

 

 

its a whole new class of accomodation, not quite hotel, kind of like how online work is not clearly defined in the work acts. i guess their options are shut it all down completely or come to a position were it can be regulated (read: taxed most probably). time will tell their true intentions but i'm leaning towards taxed and regulated as the current hotel act is unworkable for say a luxury villa but it could be construed as a a valuable commodity for the local market.

 

Quote

Officials also discussed the benefits of the market and its impacts, as well as potential rules, regulations, definitions, lessor and lessee obligations, and the assignment of agencies to be responsible for regulating and overseeing the market.

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by GeorgeCross

[Ralf61]

Immigration fears to suffocate on all those TM30s

[Joe Mcseismic]

Why not do what they did with another "illegal" problem that they just couldn't solve? I'm talking about the previous illegal taxi problem.

 

Make them all legal after making them fill out a few forms and give a bit of tax.

The market has changed and this is what tourists/customers want. In fact, in this instance it would be common sense instead of the previous cravenness of giving in to the white-plate taxis.

All of this is being driven by the big hotel chain lobbying group. A dinosaur. As with every business in Phuket over the last few decades............adapt, or die.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Joe Mcseismic

[from the home of CC]

The aim of the meeting was to exchange ideas on how to regulate the market and to stop people from renting out their properties illegally.

 

Unless they plan to knock down all the present hotels I don't believe 'regulation' is in the cards, especially when bnb users are renting properties 60% less than established businesses. The latter part of this statement is what I believe their true aim is, especially considering the lion share of illegally rented condos are foreign owned...

[GeorgeCross]

yeah would be the sensible option but i feel some regulation would help for instance party houses (1/2 night rentals) shouldn't be allowed on moo bahns but weekly rentals should be if allowed by the residents authority. we have one house on our village that does this and its never been a problem in fact its quite refreshing to have some new faces to talk to by the pool. the owner never allows party rents and its always a group of scandinavian, russian families etc. no problem.

 

likewise why blanket ban party groups? thais have no problem with this and at my main house (which is standalone) we have many of them nearby and again its not a problem for us or anyone in the area as the houses are standalone and no-one is getting annoyed. to be honest the local temple markets are a lot more disruptive!

 

the condo issue would require a lot more thought as i understand the problems there. maybe leave it up to majority vote or something?

 

either way a one size fits all regulation is gonna need a lot of sub-paragraphs to keep most people happy.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by GeorgeCross

[madmitch]

Officials emphasised that regulation would ensure better safety, service and quality for tourists, helping to make Phuket a sustainable global tourism city.

 

And that's where the article and perhaps the meeting ended. They agree that regulation is needed but will it actually occur?

 

Plenty of countries regulate short term Airbnb style renting, requiring licences, taxation, limiting night allowed to be sold and even banning it altogether.

 

There are plenty of examples of how to regulate such rentals out there. Phuket and Thailand should be able to find an offf the peg fix (adding the TM30 requirement, of course). But whatever they do it has to be enforced and that's where it all goes wrong!

 

There are plenty of examples

[steelepulse]

My next holiday will involve a lot of airbnb stays and it seems in any popular location, the local gov't has instituted a tax on the owners which is passed along to the short term tenants. 

 

How they would enforce this and how the extra tax funds would be used is anyone's guess.

[MartinKal]

 

Short term holiday rentals might benefit from regulation within the frame of making Thailand an attractive and profitable holiday destination.

 

But profitable for whom? The media sensationalise the very vety few complaints from the public. Reality is, it is only the hotel industry that is lobbying. And only the big, expensive, often foreign-owned, chain hotels. 

 

Small guest houses and airbnb offer similar service. And are similarily threatened. This is the livelihood of large numbers of little people who have put their life savings into small ventures.

 

The big chains are starting to feel the pinch in a down-turn in the tourist market. And are using their clout to kill the competition.

 

The ombudsman could work with the TAT to develop a good strategy forincluding this new "uberisation" of the hotel industry into what is best for the people and the economy. Ultimately, this means what is best for the customer.

 

So is it true that more and more tourists are shunning the big hotels? And if so, why is this?

[Tradewind777]

Regulate the ladycowboys and leave the airbnbers alone. They are the real troublemakers!

[madmitch]

1 hour ago, MartinKal said:

 

Short term holiday rentals might benefit from regulation within the frame of making Thailand an attractive and profitable holiday destination.

 

But profitable for whom? The media sensationalise the very vety few complaints from the public. Reality is, it is only the hotel industry that is lobbying. And only the big, expensive, often foreign-owned, chain hotels. 

 

Small guest houses and airbnb offer similar service. And are similarily threatened. This is the livelihood of large numbers of little people who have put their life savings into small ventures.

 

The big chains are starting to feel the pinch in a down-turn in the tourist market. And are using their clout to kill the competition.

 

The ombudsman could work with the TAT to develop a good strategy forincluding this new "uberisation" of the hotel industry into what is best for the people and the economy. Ultimately, this means what is best for the customer.

 

So is it true that more and more tourists are shunning the big hotels? And if so, why is this?

From what I see in Phuket it's only the big hotels that have any customers at the moment, mainly Chinese and a few Russians on packages. But, from what I've heard, they are working on extremelt small margins as these groups are negotiating very low rates but guarantee low-season occupancy. Some hotels are taking the view that it's better to have customers and make a little money whereas others are not entertaining the cheap package option at all.

 

I will also point out the rates charge by bigger hotels and resorts in low season. These are often a fraction of the high season rates. For under 1000 baht a night you can get a 3 star resort with pool, breakfast and facilities. This is another reason that smaller guesthouses are just about empty; the price differential makes the bigger places much more attractive. They're probably making very little money but enought to pay the bills and the staff

[Regyai]

Move  those glasses of water  away from any important papers.... 

 

Way too many knees under that  table poised  ready  to jerk. 

 

????

[DrDave]

17 hours ago, steelepulse said:

My next holiday will involve a lot of airbnb stays and it seems in any popular location, the local gov't has instituted a tax on the owners which is passed along to the short term tenants. 

 

How they would enforce this and how the extra tax funds would be used is anyone's guess.

In the case of airbnb, the tax is automatically collected on behalf of the local jurisdiction. The problem, however, is that airbnb isn't the only game in town. New websites similar to airbnb are popping up all the time, and there's no way they can all be regulated.

 

I know of one owner of a short-term rental house who dropped his airbnb listing in order to avoid regulation and taxation issues. He now rents out to his very narrow target demographic entirely though a French language Facebook page. When I checked into this situation, it seemed that he would be taxed as an annual percentage of the advertised rate, assuming 100% occupancy.

In this case, his annual taxes would have been several hundred thousand baht, which he avoided by going under the radar. Even I couldn't find his Facebook page, but he had no problem finding short-term tenants. 

[ChipButty]

47 minutes ago, DrDave said:

In the case of airbnb, the tax is automatically collected on behalf of the local jurisdiction. The problem, however, is that airbnb isn't the only game in town. New websites similar to airbnb are popping up all the time, and there's no way they can all be regulated.

 

I know of one owner of a short-term rental house who dropped his airbnb listing in order to avoid regulation and taxation issues. He now rents out to his very narrow target demographic entirely though a French language Facebook page. When I checked into this situation, it seemed that he would be taxed as an annual percentage of the advertised rate, assuming 100% occupancy.

In this case, his annual taxes would have been several hundred thousand baht, which he avoided by going under the radar. Even I couldn't find his Facebook page, but he had no problem finding short-term tenants. 

Airbnb dont collect the tax in Thailand

[ChipButty]

I think to ban STR in Phuket would cause a lot of people problems I mean Thai people would suffer, our cleaner over the years has built herself a nice little business doing STR Take that away she would have nothing and it would have a knock on effect if that one person doesn't have money spend on things like food and clothes and per her rent then how many more would be effected? Or try and find a job

My guess it has helped out a few people being able to make some money I know of one guy who had a nice 2 bedroom condo with a sea view was finding difficult to live with the falling exchange rates started doing airbnb and letting out one bedroom he wasn't making a fortune but enough to pay his way and stay here in Thailand I guess there is a lot of people in that situation.

By him making money he was able to go out and have a few beers and eat out buy the few extra things he needed so other people benefited from him.

On the other hand there are some serious players in STR markets in Phuket alone one guy in BKK had 145 listings on airbnb obviously not all his so he was subletting 

[madmitch]

15 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

I think to ban STR in Phuket would cause a lot of people problems I mean Thai people would suffer, our cleaner over the years has built herself a nice little business doing STR Take that away she would have nothing and it would have a knock on effect if that one person doesn't have money spend on things like food and clothes and per her rent then how many more would be effected? Or try and find a job

My guess it has helped out a few people being able to make some money I know of one guy who had a nice 2 bedroom condo with a sea view was finding difficult to live with the falling exchange rates started doing airbnb and letting out one bedroom he wasn't making a fortune but enough to pay his way and stay here in Thailand I guess there is a lot of people in that situation.

By him making money he was able to go out and have a few beers and eat out buy the few extra things he needed so other people benefited from him.

On the other hand there are some serious players in STR markets in Phuket alone one guy in BKK had 145 listings on airbnb obviously not all his so he was subletting 

Since when has the plight of the small businessperson been of concern to the Thai Government? They're only interested in the big players.

 

Sad but true.

[GeorgeCross]

2 hours ago, DrDave said:

When I checked into this situation, it seemed that he would be taxed as an annual percentage of the advertised rate, assuming 100% occupancy.

In this case, his annual taxes would have been several hundred thousand baht, which he avoided by going under the radar.

 

and people wonder why taxes don't get paid on these. awful system to expect taxes on 100% occupancy before expenses and not on profits.

 

tough game the hotel business

 

Edited June 15, 2019 by GeorgeCross

[ChipButty]

1 hour ago, madmitch said:

Since when has the plight of the small businessperson been of concern to the Thai Government? They're only interested in the big players.

 

Sad but true.

Thailand was built on the Black economy although I agree with you only the big guys allowed to have their fingers in the pie

[ericthai]

On 6/14/2019 at 7:59 AM, Joe Mcseismic said:

Why not do what they did with another "illegal" problem that they just couldn't solve? I'm talking about the previous illegal taxi problem.

 

Make them all legal after making them fill out a few forms and give a bit of tax.

The market has changed and this is what tourists/customers want. In fact, in this instance it would be common sense instead of the previous cravenness of giving in to the white-plate taxis.

All of this is being driven by the big hotel chain lobbying group. A dinosaur. As with every business in Phuket over the last few decades............adapt, or die.

I don't think it's all from the hotels. Some of the complaints are from condo owners.  

[merijn]

On 6/14/2019 at 6:59 PM, Joe Mcseismic said:

Make them all legal after making them fill out a few forms and give a bit of tax.

The market has changed and this is what tourists/customers want. In fact, in this instance it would be common sense instead of the previous cravenness of giving in to the white-plate taxis.

All of this is being driven by the big hotel chain lobbying group. A dinosaur. As with every business in Phuket over the last few decades............adapt, or die.

Tell that to the apartments owners who suddenly end up with short term noisy tourist abusing the apartment building facilities for which it is not intended.

Some of the apartment lost most of their value in a very short time due to those tourist.

 

[BobBKK]

On 6/14/2019 at 9:14 PM, steelepulse said:

My next holiday will involve a lot of airbnb stays and it seems in any popular location, the local gov't has instituted a tax on the owners which is passed along to the short term tenants. 

 

How they would enforce this and how the extra tax funds would be used is anyone's guess.

It's illegal, period.

[BobBKK]

On 6/15/2019 at 2:51 PM, DrDave said:

In the case of airbnb, the tax is automatically collected on behalf of the local jurisdiction. The problem, however, is that airbnb isn't the only game in town. New websites similar to airbnb are popping up all the time, and there's no way they can all be regulated.

 

I know of one owner of a short-term rental house who dropped his airbnb listing in order to avoid regulation and taxation issues. He now rents out to his very narrow target demographic entirely though a French language Facebook page. When I checked into this situation, it seemed that he would be taxed as an annual percentage of the advertised rate, assuming 100% occupancy.

In this case, his annual taxes would have been several hundred thousand baht, which he avoided by going under the radar. Even I couldn't find his Facebook page, but he had no problem finding short-term tenants. 

what? please research. You think airbnb pays taxes in Thailand? wow

[Joe Mcseismic]

2 hours ago, merijn said:

Tell that to the apartments owners who suddenly end up with short term noisy tourist abusing the apartment building facilities for which it is not intended.

Some of the apartment lost most of their value in a very short time due to those tourist.

 

I understand what you mean, but, the problem here is not that the policy is flawed, but that the guest is rude and inconsiderate (Chinese?).

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

I understand what you mean, but, the problem here is not that the policy is flawed, but that the guest is rude and inconsiderate (Chinese?).

No, the nationality of the illegal daily renters is not the problem or th issue.  The problem is illegal daily renters using a residential project meant for residents as a hotel.  

[Joe Mcseismic]

31 minutes ago, newnative said:

No, the nationality of the illegal daily renters is not the problem or th issue.  The problem is illegal daily renters using a residential project meant for residents as a hotel.  

Yeah.........s'pose so.

[DrDave]

7 hours ago, BobBKK said:

what? please research. You think airbnb pays taxes in Thailand? wow

You're right!  My bad, they collect and remit taxes in other countries, but not in Thailand.

 

If I were in charge of enforcing hotel regulations, the first place I'd look for unregistered rentals is airbnb.

 

[BestB]

Why not use the part of the brain that has not been used and make "hotel license" applications easy and simple with distinctions for large hotel,small hotels and individuals?

Set basic requirements instead of this many meters from the road and so many meters of green space and all the rest.

 

Then all people can easily get legal, pay taxes and everyone wins.

 

But, NOOOOO thats just too simple, lets make getting legit unobtainable so people are forced to do it illegally, but will brain storm on how to hunt them down, instead of on how to make it easy and simple and collect taxes from it