Yellow Book

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, sumrit said:

And that's why I originally said in post 53 that I always use  my ID card instead of my passport.

If my understanding is correct, though, one crucial piece of information that the pink ID card doesn't include is the expiry date of one's current permission to stay in Thailand (although the card does have an expiry date, I gather that this is a certain number of years after it was issued and is therefore not based on the expiry of one's current permission to stay).

 

So, in such circumstances, how do the hotels you use cope without this little piece of detail for their TM30-style notifications to Immigration? Or might they (and Immigration) simply not care?

Edited June 16, 2019 by OJAS

[sumrit]

3 hours ago, OJAS said:

If my understanding is correct, though, one crucial piece of information that the pink ID card doesn't include is the expiry date of one's current permission to stay in Thailand (although the card does have an expiry date, I gather that this is a certain number of years after it was issued and is therefore not based on the expiry of one's current permission to stay).

 

So, in such circumstances, how do the hotels you use cope without this little piece of detail for their TM30-style notifications to Immigration? Or might they (and Immigration) simply not care?

Which is why I suggested you're not added to the TM30 report when checking in to a hotel using a pink ID card.

 

Like the Thai ID, the pink ID card must be renewed every six years but the next ID card issued after reaching 64 years of age is valid for life (not renewed after you reach seventy years of age).

Edited June 16, 2019 by sumrit

[bluesofa]

6 hours ago, sumrit said:

Which is why I suggested you're not added to the TM30 report when checking in to a hotel using a pink ID card.

 

Like the Thai ID, the pink ID card must be renewed every six years but the next ID card issued after reaching 64 years of age is valid for life (not renewed after you reach seventy years of age).

The pink ID card has to be renewed every ten years. The Thai ID card is valid for life after reaching sixty.

 

[observer90210]

The certified passport bit, is much less of an hassle to have it done in a Thai Embassy back in one's home country.

[asiaexpat]

20 hours ago, sumrit said:

I always use my pink ID card when checking into hotels. As far as I'm aware, by not using your passport, you're not added to the TM30 report then.

Seems strange since the ID lacks all the necessary information. I have attempted to check in with the Pink ID many times and always told no, passport only.

[sumrit]

1 minute ago, asiaexpat said:

Seems strange since the ID lacks all the necessary information. I have attempted to check in with the Pink ID many times and always told no, passport only.

You obviously go to different hotels to me. 555555

[apetryxx]

Pardon my ignorance, but why bother? What use is the yellow book once you've got it?
 

That is a subjective comment and not a reply to the question I asked.


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[apetryxx]

OP, they are asking for a translation of passport etc to get an official translation of your name into Thai. Your name in Thai (official translation) is part of the yellow book process. In theory you could give them an MFA translation of your gym membership card, so long as it contains your name into Thai and certified..
 
A passport is probably the worst document to have translated as the MFA wants it certified as genuine before the will certify a translation.
 
If you are married, your marriage documents already include an MFA certified translation of your name (and your parents names) that would meet the requirements.

Thanks for that insight in the last paragraph as we did do that some years ago and still have the document.


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[bluesofa]

7 minutes ago, apetryxx said:

On 6/15/2019 at 7:57 AM, Peterw42 said:

OP, they are asking for a translation of passport etc to get an official translation of your name into Thai. Your name in Thai (official translation) is part of the yellow book process. In theory you could give them an MFA translation of your gym membership card, so long as it contains your name into Thai and certified..
 
A passport is probably the worst document to have translated as the MFA wants it certified as genuine before the will certify a translation.
 
If you are married, your marriage documents already include an MFA certified translation of your name (and your parents names) that would meet the requirements.

Thanks for that insight in the last paragraph as we did do that some years ago and still have the document.

I got my yellow housebook before we were married.

When it mentioned 'official translation' of my passport for the housebook, I used a local translation office in Udon, who put their company stamp on it. Fortunately the amphur accepted it.

 

Plus I was able to transliterate my name into Thai how I wanted it spelling, not the erroneous way it gets translated, as my first name and surname (in English) are nearly always misread by Thais. Not their fault, as they have no 'local knowledge' on the subject.

 

So perhaps if you try to use your MFA translation and it's deemed to be 'too old' (normally official documents have a validity of three months), then perhaps ask if a local office may be acceptable?

Just a suggestion.

 

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

So perhaps if you try to use your MFA translation and it's deemed to be 'too old' (normally official documents have a validity of three months), then perhaps ask if a local office may be acceptable?

Just a suggestion.

Documents that have been legalised have no validity expiry date.

[bluesofa]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Documents that have been legalised have no validity expiry date.

OK, I wasn't aware of that. I'll accept what you say, so it should be straightforward for the OP to use his MFA translation.

 

I just remember regularly having to request new copies of company documents from the registration office due to the three month validity. Although I do remember the VAT registration certificate  (ภ.พ. 20) was always accepted.

[KhaoYai]

On the original subject, I think the yellow tabien baan is an extremely useful thing to have - if only to never have to go to the local immigration office and get a confirmation of address again.  What a lot of people don't seem to realise is (unless they can read Thai) that when you get an address confirmation it is specific to the task you asked for - i.e. if you want one for a driving licence, it is for that purpose only. The ones I've had in the past have also had an expiry date 3 months hence.

 

Can anyone tell me if there is a requirement for a particular type of visa to enable a yellow tabien baan to be issued?  I tried a couple of years back but had a problem with the amphur manager who would not accept a power of attorney from the housemaster and insisted on her being present. Things were getting a little heated between this woman and my wife so I decided to leave it a while before trying again.  At that time I was married and held a 12 month M.E. Non O - however, I'm divorced now and enter on tourist visas.  I have a usufuct and will hopefully be able to persuade the housemaster to come alone - she lives a long way off, I'm just wondering if I'll be sent away with a tourist visa.

Edited June 17, 2019 by KhaoYai

[asiaexpat]

12 hours ago, sumrit said:

You obviously go to different hotels to me. 555555

You obviously missed my point, any hotel that registers foreigners as required by law will need to see a passport and TM6. If one expects to show up with only the Pink ID they may not get a room. It seems Sumrit only stays in hotels that do not file a TM30 report as required by law, I do not.

[jayceenik]

I've lived a couple decades in Thailand on a visa extension and I had heard about the Yellow Book but never was asked for one or needed one. Lived in two rentals (BKK and Pattaya) so I guess then owners had reported me to Immigration.

But I'm finally getting married to my current TGF and thought the Yellow Book would be a facilitator getting the required documents at my Embassy and then going to the Amphoe. I've lived with her for three years now in the house I bought her in Ubon.

After reading this very informative thread I've decided I didn't want to go through the trouble to get one for very little benefit ... ????

 

Thanks to all guys who post good info on TVF. This thread and others.

Edited June 18, 2019 by jayceenik

[Tanoshi]

13 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Can anyone tell me if there is a requirement for a particular type of visa to enable a yellow tabien baan to be issued? 

This again depends very much on the conditions set by the local Amphoe's.

 

Mine used to issue the book to any foreigner, but then 4 years ago stopped issuing it to 'Tourists'.

Now you need a Non Imm type Visa at minimum.

 

Before you drag your landlady down, I suggest you check with the Amphoe first.

As you'll be registering at another person's address, the landlord is required to sign a consent form giving permission to use their address.

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

This again depends very much on the conditions set by the local Amphoe's.

 

Mine used to issue the book to any foreigner, but then 4 years ago stopped issuing it to 'Tourists'.

Now you need a Non Imm type Visa at minimum.

 

Before you drag your landlady down, I suggest you check with the Amphoe first.

As you'll be registering at another person's address, the landlord is required to sign a consent form giving permission to use their address.

Thanks - I already register TM30 online. I have a Usufruct and full power of attorney over the property - signed at a notary's office. My lawyer says that's enough but the Amphur manager is adamant that the landlady must be present. I may have other things to do at the Amphur in the future so rather than make problems for myself, I'll comply with her wishes regarding the landlady but will check about the visa situation.

Edited June 18, 2019 by KhaoYai

[Tanoshi]

6 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Thanks - I already register TM30 online. I have a Usufruct and full power of attorney over the property - signed at a notary's office. My lawyer says that's enough but the Amphur manager is adamant that the landlady must be present. I may have other things to do at the Amphur in the future so rather than make problems for myself, I'll comply with her wishes.

Maybe, but you don't own the property and you need their permission to register and use the address of the Blue book which they hold, no doubt.

The manager at your Amphoe is correct in my opinion.

[ThomasThBKK]

22 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Thanks - I already register TM30 online. I have a Usufruct and full power of attorney over the property - signed at a notary's office. My lawyer says that's enough but the Amphur manager is adamant that the landlady must be present. I may have other things to do at the Amphur in the future so rather than make problems for myself, I'll comply with her wishes regarding the landlady but will check about the visa situation.

 

With the usufruct he has a real right, temporary ownership of the property. That is more than enough and they just make stuff up in his case. It's enough to get building permits and he can do what he wants there. Especially also having an unneeded Power of Attorney on top of that...

He is right and they just want to cause trouble for him.

 

By law non-resident foreign nationals are legally permitted to have a yellow house book, the department of provincial administration issued an instruction manual to all officwa clarifying that but some still refuse to do what they are told to, prolly awaiting a brown envelope to ease their own restrictions.

 

Not much you can do tho except complying with their bs, welcome to thailand. 

[bluesofa]

3 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

{snipped}

Not much you can do tho except complying with their bs, welcome to thailand. 

Agreed, although I do remember reading a post from someone who after point blank being refused a yellow housebook contacted the Ombudsman, and within twenty-four hours the amphur contacted him to arrange to issue one.

 

Office Of The Ombudsman, tel: 1676, also 02-141-9100

[Tanoshi]

12 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

By law non-resident foreign nationals are legally permitted to have a yellow house book, the department of provincial administration issued an instruction manual to all officwa clarifying that but some still refuse to do what they are told to, prolly awaiting a brown envelope to ease their own restrictions.

The law states the Amphoe should issue a book to foreigners who apply.

It doesn't state the conditions or requirements of such issuance though.

It's left to the individual Amphoe's administration to set the terms and conditions.

 

It's the same with every government department in Thailand.

Different Provinces, different administrative rules.

There is no 'one standard' of bureaucratic procedures in Thailand.

Look no further than conflicting information given on this forum concerning Immigration, banks, DLT centres and Amphoe's.

[ThomasThBKK]

The law states the Amphoe should issue a book to foreigners who apply.
It doesn't state the conditions or requirements of such issuance though.
It's left to the individual Amphoe's administration to set the terms and conditions.
 
It's the same with every government department in Thailand.
Different Provinces, different administrative rules.
There is no 'one standard' of bureaucratic procedures in Thailand.
Look no further than conflicting information given on this forum concerning Immigration, banks, DLT centres and Amphoe's.

Well there is a standard, an instruction the minister of interior gave out to them via the DOPA and was supposed to be binding.

They just ignore it, and no one except the guys working there in the amphoe are to blame for that.

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[Tanoshi]

6 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Well there is a standard, an instruction the minister of interior gave out to them via the DOPA and was supposed to be binding.

Like all issued instruction here, there either not read, ignored, or misinterpreted due to there lack of clarity.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Tanoshi

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Maybe, but you don't own the property and you need their permission to register and use the address of the Blue book which they hold, no doubt.

The manager at your Amphoe is correct in my opinion.

Not wishing to argue the point and of course you have a right to your opinion. However, there is an opinion and then there is the law. The power of attorney I have gives me full rights to sell the property or rent it out - it is a legal document, signed by the registered owner in the office of a notary.  It cannot be deemed illegal under the Thai land laws as in no way does it convey ownership, simply the right to sell it and that is not the same as owning it.

 

The Usufruct agreement is registered at the Land Office and gives me the right to do more or less what I want with the property, I can build on the land, run a business from it - basically anything except illegal or immoral things.

 

Whilst I accept that it is much easier to simply play along with the Amphur manager, I have absolutely no doubt that she is wrong in law and if I wished to take it to court, I believe the court would agree that as I have full rights to use and enjoy the property, that includes the address  and therefore, in giving me a Usufruct, the registered owner has already granted me everything necessary.

Edited June 18, 2019 by KhaoYai

[Tanoshi]

8 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Whilst I accept that it is much easier to simply play along with the Amphur manager, I have absolutely no doubt that she is wrong in law and if I wished to take it to court, I believe the court would agree that as I have full rights to use and enjoy the property, that includes the address  and therefore, in giving me a Usufruct, the registered owner has already granted me everything necessary.

You have an unusual situation, one of which the Amphoe manager has no experience of, so sticks to what he knows. Asking a higher authority for advice in this situation would incur loss of face.

I'm sure if you contacted the Ombudsman, the matter could be resolved.