Does a lease have to have a price?

[GalaxyMan]

Is it possible to get and register with the land office a lease that has ZERO as the cost per month, in essence giving free living for the term of the lease?

[ThomasThBKK]

That's absolutely stupid to do as Gifts can be revoked in Thailand and your lease would not be worth the paper it's written on.

[FritsSikkink]

Yes, it is possible.

[ThomasThBKK]

27 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Yes, it is possible.

 

No it is NOT. It makes the lease INVALID.

 

If there is tax fraud or wrongly low rent amount etc. involved each party can claim at anytime that the lease is VOID!! even if it is registered at the back of the chanote.

 

 

Leases suck anyway, look into Usufructs and superficies OP, only these are real rights in Thailand.

 

[RJRS1301]

I would suggest that you consult a lawyer whether you are lessee or lessor .

 

[bankruatsteve]

Suggest the OP explain the purpose for the question.  IE: Why do you think you want/need a lease with zero rent?

[gusincebu]

Suggest the OP explain the purpose for the question.  IE: Why do you think you want/need a lease with zero rent?

My thoughts ..
Perhaps although there is no requirement for monetary compensation ..they might want to list other conditions of occupancy ,such as , length of time, numbers of occupants , maintainence of property ..etc etc .

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[FritsSikkink]

53 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

No it is NOT. It makes the lease INVALID.

 

If there is tax fraud or wrongly low rent amount etc. involved each party can claim at anytime that the lease is VOID!! even if it is registered at the back of the chanote.

 

 

Leases suck anyway, look into Usufructs and superficies OP, only these are real rights in Thailand.

 

It IS possible to register, that it can be contested is a whole other thing.

[GalaxyMan]

1 hour ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

No it is NOT. It makes the lease INVALID.

 

If there is tax fraud or wrongly low rent amount etc. involved each party can claim at anytime that the lease is VOID!! even if it is registered at the back of the chanote.

 

 

Leases suck anyway, look into Usufructs and superficies OP, only these are real rights in Thailand.

 

We've tried to get an usufruct twice, once on our own with the builder, then with a lawyer. They basically yelled at us and threw us out. The bottom line here in Koh Samui is NO USUFRUCT FOR FARANGS. Hence going the lease route. We're trying to minimize the tax that they'd charge in wanting to have ZERO as the lease amount.

I've read about superficies and know that the chanote for the house combines the land with the house, so it would need to be separated. Might be worth looking into. I could then 'buy' the house for whatever. The land's the issue.

I understand the government's position vis-a-vis farangs owning land in Thailand and I basically agree, but they really do need to abide by their own rules and regulations. Oh, sorry, this is LSD day. Silly me.

[ThomasThBKK]

Ah samui, yes it's typical there.

I had complete made up shit thrown at me in various other land offices too tho, they just don't want us.

 

General rule is the lease agreements value should be at  least 30% of the land for a 30 year lease to look valid.

 

Is the house already build? You should take care of a superficies asap using a lawyer, i don't really know how that works if it's already build. Normally that stuff should get done before it's finished. Superficies make your house comparable to a condo, it's basically based on the same principle and divides land and house ownership.

 

There are 2 different kinds of superficies btw:

 

1) lifetime - not inheritable

2) 30 years - but you can inherit it yo your kids etc. 

 

Choose wisely 

[GalaxyMan]

3 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Ah samui, yes it's typical there.

I had complete made up shit thrown at me in various other land offices too tho, they just don't want us.

 

General rule is the lease agreements value should be at  least 30% of the land for a 30 year lease to look valid.

 

Is the house already build? You should take care of a superficies asap using a lawyer, i don't really know how that works if it's already build. Normally that stuff should get done before it's finished.

The house is built. What is the 30% applied against, the price paid for the house/land?

[ThomasThBKK]

2 minutes ago, GalaxyMan said:

The house is built. What is the 30% applied against, the price paid for the house/land?

 

The land price, in your case there was prolly no seperate land price?

 

Then it should be the estimated land office price afaik - which is usually quite low. But it it all depends upon the sales contracts you've signed.

 

Usually you should have a Construction agreement, a lease/usufruct agreement and a land sale agreement. 

 

 

 

[moontang]

I did this in CM, and wouldn't do it again, but they rejected 300,000 but agreed to 500,000 for a 30 year lease, On a house I was buying for 915,000 and the value of record was 300k for the land and 350k for the house.  1% tax..notbad, however I didn't like the unpaid annual rental tax hanging over my head.  

[dotpoom]

Due to circumstances. not necessary to go into here ...I purchased the condo I live in now in my then G/F's name. To cover myself, I had my name attached to the Chanote as a 20 tennant...paying 5000Bt a month rent. This meant that she cannot sell the condo without my signature ..nor I without hers ..which suited me fine as I am finished moving from place to place. Because I am listed as a tennant this means she has an income as is registered to pay tax on that income... (not sure how she will manage that as we have now split up).

   Let me take this opp. to unleash a little rant. I am not really bothered by my situation ..I am a sort of phylosofical guy and believe that there is a reason for everything and the sooner we accept life the sooner we will discover what those reasons are. 

  I have mentioned my situation to a few friends when the subject came up....and ...to a man....everyone of them were more than eager and took great pleasure in telling me how f*c*** I was....not one of them had the decency to look at the situation from a distance.and see how it's not such a big deal really. I will be long dead before the 20 years is up and even if it was brought on a bit earlier by herself.. even that is no big deal... My time is near due anyway.

   Me, I would personally try to be supportive to a person in the same position. But I have noticed in Thailand that many of the Farangs seem to have this Hugh chip on their shoulder about life in general and just love to spread the message of "doom and gloom"

  Rant over...thanking you 555.

 

[Jeffrey346]

A lease is a contract. A contract must have consideration to be valid.

In this case the consideration [value] is money. Free is not acceptable.

An agreement for 1 Baht is acceptable. 

[natway09]

There must be a value even if it is small. It is called "consideration"

[khunPer]

On 6/16/2019 at 9:41 AM, GalaxyMan said:

Is it possible to get and register with the land office a lease that has ZERO as the cost per month, in essence giving free living for the term of the lease?

I would not believe so, as you pay tax when having a lease registered, for "zero" you might obtain habitation right or usufruct, not all land offices however issue a usufruct to a foreigner.

 

Quote

The grantee of the right of habitation does not pay rent to the grantor. If there is rental payment made, the matter becomes a tenancy. A right of habitation may be created for either a specific period of time or for the lifetime of the grantee. In case the rights are granted for a specific time period, the law states that such a period may not exceed 30 years; if a longer period is fixed, it shall be enforceable for only 30 years. The grant may be renewed for a period not exceeding 30 years from the time of renewal. Lastly, the right of habitation is not transferable by way of inheritance.

Quote

The right of usufruct transfers possession, use and enjoyment of an immovable property from the owner to the usufructuary. Usufruct can only be registered over properly titled immovable property and is established by agreement with the owner and registration at the local land office. The contract or memorandum for usufruct is the legal document that states and confirms the formal agreement between the owner and the usufructuary (the person granted the right of usufruct).

 

[inThailand]

A binding agreement must have consideration to be legal, ie, in this case rent money. Though the Land Dept are not lawyers, judge or jury I highly doubt they will consider registering a zero money lease, mainly for they are not collecting their 1 percent fee on the value of the lease. And even if they did a judge would throw the lease out if contested. Now you have nothing.

[GalaxyMan]

Seems as though I'm going to have to put some low-ball price for the lease in and hope they accept it; if not, the bargaining begins as to an acceptable price, it would seem.