90 day report and TM 30 after returning to Thailand after 3-week holiday

[khaepmu]

I have recently returned to Thailand after a 3-week holiday in the UK. I have  a Non-B visa for work. I was told that when I return to Thailand, I have 90 days to file my 90-day report. With all this discussion about TM 30 forms, I am wondering if the Sir Racha Immigration office will demand one of these forms when I do my next 90-day report or should I have already gone to the office just after I arrived back and submitted the TM 30 form. 

[Thailand]

The 90 day clock starts the day you arrive back in Thailand.

Many offices require the TM30 to be filed within 24 hours of return to Thailand,some are more flexible.

[Matzzon]

You should have gone to the office within 24 hours according to the written rules. Somebody will come along and tell you how Sri Racha Immigration Office handle the TM30 situation and if there is any fines included.

[glegolo]

I understand the question actually put forward by the OP. Here in Chaiyaphum they are NOT enforcing the TM28 nor TM30, when returning to the very samt place/address, that you left for your trip abroad.

 

glegolo

[ubonjoe]

If you have not been asked for a TM30 report before when you returned from a trip out of the country I would not worry about it. Just because some other offices are now asking for it does not mean your office has changed.

[ubonjoe]

54 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

You should have gone to the office within 24 hours according to the written rules.

What written rules do you think state that. The immigration act does not say that.

It is only a local policy at some offices.

[Tanoshi]

45 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

What written rules do you think state that. The immigration act does not say that.

It is only a local policy at some offices.

This is one of those rare occasions I disagree with your opinion Joe.

An alien receiving temporary permission to enter into the Country is subject to Thai Immigration control and the conditions therein for temporary stay under the Immigration Act.

 

When you leave the Country your temporary permission of stay permit is deemed to have expired, unless you obtain a re-entry permit and allowed re-entry by the Immigration officer, but in allowing re-entry the alien is subject to the same requirements as if entering for the first time.

[ubonjoe]

33 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

An alien receiving temporary permission to enter into the Country is subject to Thai Immigration control and the conditions therein for temporary stay under the Immigration Act.

 

When you leave the Country your temporary permission of stay permit is deemed to have expired, unless you obtain a re-entry permit and allowed re-entry by the Immigration officer, but in allowing re-entry the alien is subject to the same requirements as if entering for the first time.

That is only your opinion and some immigration offices and officers. Others state it is only needed if you change addresses which in my opinion is correct.

The only reason temporary permission to stay is mentioned in the section 38 is because it only applies to those with one it does not mean anything more than that.

Section 38 only states the report is needed when arriving at the residence. If you never move from the residence another report should not be needed.

You only mentioned leaving and reentering the country. What about the other offices that are wrongly stating a new one is needed if you stay at a hotel and such.

[sumrit]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

If you have not been asked for a TM30 report before when you returned from a trip out of the country I would not worry about it. Just because some other offices are now asking for it does not mean your office has changed.

Si Racha don't tell you in advance that you need to file a TM30 on your return from a trip out of the country unless you specifically ask them, but, if you ask they will tell you they do require it.

 

After asking, when I returned from a month in the UK last year I went to file my TM30 and had no problem, but there were a lot of people, who were there at the same time, being fined for non/late filing.

 

I know of two other people who have been told/done the same a Si Racha.

[Matzzon]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

What written rules do you think state that. The immigration act does not say that.

It is only a local policy at some offices.

Okey, so the written rule only regards when entering Thailand at an address the first time, if you then come back to the same address 1 year later there is no need for a new report. So, if you choose to reside in Korat for 6 month with a friend, then there is no need too? I guess Immigration sees you beeing away for more than 24 hours, or in this case more relevant 21 days. During a period like that, it probably doesn´t matter inside or outside the country. 

However, opinions might differ. I believe it´s better to be on the safe side. By the way, why the guy don´t ask an officer at his Immigration office, is unfathomable. That would like be the most easy way to comply with some upside down rules set by the specific office.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Okey, so the written rule only regards when entering Thailand at an address the first time, if you then come back to the same address 1 year later there is no need for a new report. So, if you choose to reside in Korat for 6 month with a friend, then there is no need too? I guess Immigration sees you beeing away for more than 24 hours, or in this case more relevant 21 days. During a period like that, it probably doesn´t matter inside or outside the country. 

However, opinions might differ. I believe it´s better to be on the safe side. By the way, why the guy don´t ask an officer at his Immigration office, is unfathomable. That would like be the most easy way to comply with some upside down rules set by the specific office.

I have lived at the same address for 12 years, I have a yellow book, but Mrs.Trans got fined 800bht for not reporting I was out of the country ONE night....

[Matzzon]

7 minutes ago, transam said:

I have lived at the same address for 12 years, I have a yellow book, but Mrs.Trans got fined 800bht for not reporting I was out of the country ONE night....

Exactly. Better to be on the safe side. It´s really no money to talk about even if it would happen 1 time a year, but the easy thing is to have a good and regular contact with your Immigration Office.

Edited June 22, 2019 by Matzzon

[Matzzon]

46 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is only your opinion and some immigration offices and officers. Others state it is only needed if you change addresses which in my opinion is correct.

The only reason temporary permission to stay is mentioned in the section 38 is because it only applies to those with one it does not mean anything more than that.

Section 38 only states the report is needed when arriving at the residence. If you never move from the residence another report should not be needed.

You only mentioned leaving and reentering the country. What about the other offices that are wrongly stating a new one is needed if you stay at a hotel and such.

This is copied from the Immigration Division 1 website.

 

According to section 38 of the 1979 immigration act, "House owners, heads of household, landlords or managers of hotels who accommodate foreign nationals on a temporary basis who stay in the kingdom legally, must notify the local immigration authorities within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the foreign national." If there is no immigration office in the province or locality of the respective house or hotel, the notification is made to the local police station. In Bangkok the notification is made to the Immigration Bureau. The notification of residence of foreign nationals is made by the manager of licensed hotels according to the hotel act, owners of guesthouses, mansions, apartments and rented houses using the form TM. 30. 
The notification of residence of foreign nationals within 24 hours can be made in a number of ways to make the notification as convenient as possible:

There is nowhere in this information it stands that it regards the first arrival at an address. I clearly states "within 24 hours after arrival of the foreign national", which most probably mean every single arrival after leaving the country, instead of one specific. In that case the text, to me, would have stated the first arrival at a new address. It does not state that.

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

That is only your opinion and some immigration offices and officers. Others state it is only needed if you change addresses which in my opinion is correct.

Chapter 4. Temporary Stay in the Kingdom.

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following :

Section 37.

Section 38.

Section 39

All under chapter 4 regulations for temporary stay.

Edited June 22, 2019 by Tanoshi

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

There is nowhere in this information it stands that it regards the first arrival at an address. I clearly states "within 24 hours after arrival of the foreign national", which most probably mean every single arrival after leaving the country, instead of one specific. In that case the text, to me, would have stated the first arrival at a new address. It does not state that.

It only mentions arrival at the residence which is what the immigration act states.

Nothing about leaving and returning to the same residence. requiring it.

The problem is that the immigration act was written 40 years ago. Things have changed a lot since then. It is long past due to be revised.

Another problem is the duplicity of sections 37 and 38. Some offices mix up the requirements of the 2 for address reporting.

What is badly needed is for the Immigration Bureau to write a official order to clarify what the requirements are instead of every office setting their own requirements.

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

All under chapter 4 regulations for temporary stay.

I am well aware of what chapter 4 has in it.

Why repeat the same thing multiple times?

But what does temporary stay really mean in the act is a another question.

When it was written 40 years ago there were not that many people here on a temporary stay. Before it was written many people were staying here on residence permits that were fairly easy to get.

I have not left the country for many years. Am I still on a temporary stay?

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

You only mentioned leaving and reentering the country. What about the other offices that are wrongly stating a new one is needed if you stay at a hotel and such.

If the hotel filed a TM30 as they should, then you need to file a TM30 on return to your permanent place of abode, otherwise your place of stay remains unchanged.

Most office snow only request the TM30 when you change permanent residency, the TM28's are discarded in many instances.

 

[Tanoshi]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I have not left the country for many years. Am I still on a temporary stay?

You know the answer to that, yes.

You extend your permission of temporary stay annually.

[Tanoshi]

13 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The problem is that the immigration act was written 40 years ago. Things have changed a lot since then. It is long past due to be revised.

Another problem is the duplicity of sections 37 and 38. Some offices mix up the requirements of the 2 for address reporting.

What is badly needed is for the Immigration Bureau to write a official order to clarify what the requirements are instead of every office setting their own requirements.

I'm in absolute 100% agreement with that.

[khaepmu]

  

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Posted 1 hour ago

  3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

If you have not been asked for a TM30 report before when you returned from a trip out of the country I would not worry about it. Just because some other offices are now asking for it does not mean your office has changed.

Si Racha don't tell you in advance that you need to file a TM30 on your return from a trip out of the country unless you specifically ask them, but, if you ask they will tell you they do require it.

 

After asking, when I returned from a month in the UK last year I went to file my TM30 and had no problem, but there were a lot of people, who were there at the same time, being fined for non/late filing.

 

I know of two other people who have been told/done the same a Si Racha.

 

 

So does this mean that if I haven't asked them I don't have to file the TM 30. I think I will wait til my next 90-day report. If they tell me I should have filed the TM 30 when I returned from my holiday, what might the fine be for not complying with the rule. And what if I move to a new apartment/house before the 90-day report is due. 

•  

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

It only mentions arrival at the residence which is what the immigration act states.

Nothing about leaving and returning to the same residence. requiring it.

The problem is that the immigration act was written 40 years ago. Things have changed a lot since then. It is long past due to be revised.

Another problem is the duplicity of sections 37 and 38. Some offices mix up the requirements of the 2 for address reporting.

What is badly needed is for the Immigration Bureau to write a official order to clarify what the requirements are instead of every office setting their own requirements.

 

 

If you leave the country the computer system logs you out of the tm30 registration if you are are NOT registered as the Housemaster at this address (yes - that means having ur name in the tabien baan). When you return you have to make a new one which would be the case for most people who live in a normal rented appartment.

 

From how i understand the interconnected law and system (technically how their computersystem works) mashup (including: tm30, 90days, housebook register, airport immigration register) here u are are not the Chief possesor of a residence if you aren't registed in the tabien baan as a _house master_ and _by law_ it would be your landlords duty to check _every day_ if you are there.

 

Which stems from the simple fact this law was done for Hotels back in the day where this would be no problem.

 

 

This is actually how the computer immigration system works. This thing is a far bigger mess than it seems to be if you just look at section 38/37.

 

If you arrive back from overseas in most cases you should do a tm30 if u plan to go to immigration for 90 day reporting etc later.

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

If you leave the country the computer system logs you out of the tm30 registration if you are are NOT registered as the Housemaster at this address (yes - that means having ur name in the tabien baan). When you return you have to make a new one which would be the case for most people who live in a normal rented appartment.

As far as I know it does not work that way now.

The TM30 reporting is stored in a stand alone database as far as I know and that is mostly for the online reporting that hotels and such do.

I don't think  most people stay in rented apartment. They stay in condos and houses.

[Matzzon]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It only mentions arrival at the residence which is what the immigration act states.

Ok, when you leave and come back after 1-3 month. To come back to something you must arrive again, right?
I am just stating to possible.

 

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

What is badly needed is for the Immigration Bureau to write a official order to clarify what the requirements are instead of every office setting their own requirements.

That I guess we all can agree on.

[Matzzon]

3 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

If the hotel filed a TM30 as they should, then you need to file a TM30 on return to your permanent place of abode, otherwise your place of stay remains unchanged.

Most office snow only request the TM30 when you change permanent residency, the TM28's are discarded in many instances.

 

The report that is done by a hotel is only to be regarded as temporary notification of address, and will not override your own TM 30.

[moonseeker]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That is only your opinion and some immigration offices and officers. Others state it is only needed if you change addresses which in my opinion is correct.

The only reason temporary permission to stay is mentioned in the section 38 is because it only applies to those with one it does not mean anything more than that.

Section 38 only states the report is needed when arriving at the residence. If you never move from the residence another report should not be needed.

You only mentioned leaving and reentering the country. What about the other offices that are wrongly stating a new one is needed if you stay at a hotel and such.

Jomtien told me clearly 9 months ago. No need come back unless adress changes as long as you are on retirement extension. Have not read anything to the contrary yet. MS>

[Tanoshi]

27 minutes ago, moonseeker said:

Jomtien told me clearly 9 months ago. No need come back unless adress changes as long as you are on retirement extension. Have not read anything to the contrary yet. MS>

That's what CW used to say.

Different story now though.

[Tanoshi]

40 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

The report that is done by a hotel is only to be regarded as temporary notification of address, and will not override your own TM 30.

Possibly and probably, as the TM30 online goes to the 'central' system, not your local office.

Only if they logged into the main system would they see a previously filed TM30.

Regardless I file when I arrive 'home', just to be on the safe side.

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

That's what CW used to say.

Different story now though.

I think CW has been doing a catch up. Since they were not asking for them period.

Lot of different reports for there as well. Some people being told to do one before they apply for an an extension again.

I suspect if one has been done that will be the end of it.

[melonf]

Does anybody know if a new TM 30 is required at Jomtien after a same day visa run to the local border? 

A hotel would not report it as they simply would not know that it taken place as you would not check out. But maybe this does not apply to other accommodations

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, melonf said:

Does anybody know if a new TM 30 is required at Jomtien after a same day visa run to the local border? 

In your case they would want one if you went to immigration to do something since they would see your new entry stamp.

You could ask the hotel to a the report as if you were just checking in so you would not have to worry about it.