Ireland warns British PM contenders against 'dumbing down' border issue

[metisdead]

A troll post using an over sized emoji has been removed. 

[Loiner]

9 hours ago, petemoss said:

Both remainers and leavers want a borderless border. Unfortunately, with a no deal Brexit, a hard border is inevitable, which is why there won't be a no deal Brexit. That leaves only 2 alternatives, May's deal, which is the only deal Boris can come back from Brussels with, or remain.

A hard border is not inevitable at all. A borderless border would not affect No Deal.
May's deal is dead and buried.
Boris does not have to come back with any deal at all.
We won't be Remaining.

[tebee]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

A hard border is not inevitable at all. A borderless border would not affect No Deal.
May's deal is dead and buried.
Boris does not have to come back with any deal at all.
We won't be Remaining.

I predict every statement there will be proved  wrong soon....

[nontabury]

8 hours ago, petemoss said:

So MPs didn't actually vote in the way you said they did. Well done for misconstruing the facts.

 

Now show us where I said that the majority of people or the majority of constituents did not vote for Brexit. (Although it's true that far less than 50% of the electorate voted for Brexit).

 

What I actually said is that the majority of people didn't vote for a hard Brexit or May's deal when they voted for Brexit. They voted for a complete separation from the EU with an exit agreement that is beneficial, financially, to the UK.

 

Making up quotes seems to be getting a habit with you.

 

 

 The term hard Brexit or Soft Brexit are terms made up by those who do not accept the decision of the people’s Democratic vote of 2016,and the subsequent vote in the 2017 General election. Unlike the true Brits who contrary to the misleading propaganda of the Undemocratic remainers, did in fact know what they were voting for.

 

 

 

[Loiner]

2 hours ago, tebee said:

I predict every statement there will be proved  wrong soon....

Oh be quiet Frazer.

 

[Loiner]

On 6/23/2019 at 3:20 PM, Bluespunk said:

Ah, you know they will prove you wrong and are scared to face the truth. 

 

https://www.rte.ie/amp/972531/

 

https://amp.ft.com/content/73ac4a5c-d83f-11e8-a854-33d6f82e62f8

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/18/how-the-irish-backstop-emerged-as-mays-brexit-nemesis

 

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/world/2019/2/18/18204269/brexit-irish-border-backstop-explained

 

Heres a snippet just for you

 

”At 6.25am on 24 June, 2016, an hour after it was clear that Britain had voted to leave the EU, a terse statement was circulated among press officers before being released to the outside world.  

The Irish Government, said the statement, "notes the outcome of the UK EU referendum this morning. The result clearly has very significant implications for Ireland…"

 

On 6/22/2019 at 9:38 AM, Bluespunk said:

Eire tried to reach an agreement with the U.K. after the brexit vote as they, unlike the tories, immediately realised the implications for the Good Friday Agreement. 

 

They even offered an ad hoc arrangement, where issues that affected it could be dealt with on a case by case basis. 

 

I'm still ready to face the truth, as you think it. Where and when did the Irish government try to reach an agreement with the UK and what was offered in an ad hoc arrangement, because we will need it shortly?

There's no contemporaneous reports of Dublin providing anything to help. Your links are all from 2018 and 2019, even your snippet was published in June 2018 as a retrospective piece. None of them give any detail of any arrangements offered by the Irish government. Nothing ad hoc from a taskforce, only a post-referendum mayday: "Brussels, we have a problem."

[Bluespunk]

9 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

I'm still ready to face the truth, as you think it. Where and when did the Irish government try to reach an agreement with the UK and what was offered in an ad hoc arrangement, because we will need it shortly?

There's no contemporaneous reports of Dublin providing anything to help. Your links are all from 2018 and 2019, even your snippet was published in June 2018 as a retrospective piece. None of them give any detail of any arrangements offered by the Irish government. Nothing ad hoc from a taskforce, only a post-referendum mayday: "Brussels, we have a problem."

The boat has sailed on the offer of an ad hoc agreement.

 

The tories blew that chance with their inept handing of talks, as outlined in the articles I assume you have read by now.

 

As to the news article I refereed to, I've done enough finding of articles for you, it was a BBC or guardian article published in 2018.

 

Find it yourself.

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

The boat has sailed on the offer of an ad hoc agreement.

 

The tories blew that chance with their inept handing of talks, as outlined in the articles I assume you have read by now.

 

As to the news article I refereed to, I've done enough finding of articles for you, it was a BBC or guardian article published in 2018.

 

Find it yourself.

There never was an ad hoc agreement offer was there? That's why you can't find it, because the Irish government never tried. That's why I won't bother to go looking for the non-existent.

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, Loiner said:

There never was an ad hoc agreement offer was there? That's why you can't find it, because the Irish government never tried. That's why I won't bother to go looking for the non-existent.

There was.

 

Do your own research.

 

The only one's who didn't try were the tories.

[Loiner]

44 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

There was.

 

Do your own research.

 

The only one's who didn't try were the tories.

There so was not. That's why you can't find any.
All that happened was Ireland realised that they will be screwed by Brexit and the EU rules. 

So they decided, or were told, to collude in overturning Brexit with a spurious backstop arrangement.

 

[Bluespunk]

23 minutes ago, Loiner said:

There so was not. That's why you can't find any.
All that happened was Ireland realised that they will be screwed by Brexit and the EU rules. 

So they decided, or were told, to collude in overturning Brexit with a spurious backstop arrangement.

 

Nope.

 

The offer was made in early stages of talks as starting point.

 

Tories did nothing.

 

Eire then quite rightly went to EU leaders and made sure they put Eire's interests at the forefront of brexit negotiations.

 

Quite successfully as well.

 

The fact brexiteers don't like it is really none of Eire's concern.

 

That's your problem.

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

Nope.

 

The offer was made in early stages of talks as starting point.

 

Tories did nothing.

 

Eire then quite rightly went to EU leaders and made sure they put Eire's interests at the forefront of brexit negotiations.

 

Quite successfully as well.

 

The fact brexiteers don't like it is really none of Eire's concern.

 

That's your problem.

If there was an offer, it would have been recorded somewhere. It would still be forefront or somewhere in the Brexit negotiations. So it's only in your mind. If it isn't recorded, it never happened.

 

It's going to become Ireland's problem very soon. 

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

If there was an offer, it would have been recorded somewhere. It would still be forefront or somewhere in the Brexit negotiations. So it's only in your mind. If it isn't recorded, it never happened.

 

It's going to become Ireland's problem very soon. 

It happened and the tories failed to act upon it.

 

Just as they failed to take Eire and her concerns seriously, empire thinking no doubt.

 

Well they learned their lesson now, as Eire is more than capable of protecting their own interests.

 

[Loiner]

2 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

It happened and the tories failed to act upon it.

 

Just as they failed to take Eire and her concerns seriously, empire thinking no doubt.

 

Well they learned their lesson now, as Eire is more than capable of protecting their own interests.

 

Sure you didn't imagine it? Nobody else was there to record it.

 

The EU is obviously looking after EU's interest and its own single market ideology. They don't care about Irish farmers and the agroindustry ties to the UK markets. 

[Bluespunk]

14 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Sure you didn't imagine it? Nobody else was there to record it.

 

The EU is obviously looking after EU's interest and its own single market ideology. They don't care about Irish farmers and the agroindustry ties to the UK markets. 

Quite sure.

 

The Irish govt is looking after it's own interests and the EU is supporting the Irish position.

 

They have worked hard to ensure this, much to brexiteer apoplexy...

 

That's the uk's, well the tories, problem though, not Eire's.  

 

 

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

Quite sure.

 

The Irish govt is looking after it's own interests and the EU is supporting the Irish position.

 

They have worked hard to ensure this, much to brexiteer apoplexy...

 

That's the uk's, well the tories, problem though, not Eire's.  

 

 

Well you couldn't produce it. I really don't believe there was any ad hoc arrangement offered.

 

Worked hard to produce exactly what - stalemate and potential strife for the Irish economy? While you may think it's the UK's problem, I very much doubt it.

[Bluespunk]

14 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Well you couldn't produce it. I really don't believe there was any ad hoc arrangement offered.

 

Worked hard to produce exactly what - stalemate and potential strife for the Irish economy? While you may think it's the UK's problem, I very much doubt it.

I don’t care whether you believe it or not. Doesn’t make any difference. 

 

Eire worked hard to make sure the consequences and possible of brexit on the Good Friday Agreement were at the forefront of negotiations. 

 

Ensured an arrangement was in place to prevent the uk imposing a hard border in any brexit deal with the EU. 

 

As the only deal the uk is going to get does.  

[Loiner]

3 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

I don’t care whether you believe it or not. Doesn’t make any difference. 

 

Eire worked hard to make sure the consequences and possible of brexit on the Good Friday Agreement were at the forefront of negotiations. 

 

Ensured an arrangement was in place to prevent the uk imposing a hard border in any brexit deal with the EU. 

 

As the only deal the uk is going to get does.  

Consequences of the GFA were at the forefront but negotiations are still at stalemate. The EU, Ireland and Theresa May all put their money on the backstop in her WAG. That was the only deal but it's dead and gone now.

The UK has never wanted a hard border, Ireland doesn't but what about your EU? Ireland will be screwed by the EU and Remainers' obsession with the single market. 

[Bluespunk]

19 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Consequences of the GFA were at the forefront but negotiations are still at stalemate. The EU, Ireland and Theresa May all put their money on the backstop in her WAG. That was the only deal but it's dead and gone now.

The UK has never wanted a hard border, Ireland doesn't but what about your EU? Ireland will be screwed by the EU and Remainers' obsession with the single market. 

As it stands Eire will have achieved success, as there will be no more negotiations. The brexit deal the tories brokered is the only one you will get. 

 

And let’s not forget, Eire can and will veto any deal that does not suit them.

 

The EU knows this and will therefore ensure Eire’s concerns are addressed. 

[Loiner]

9 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

As it stands Eire will have achieved success, as there will be no more negotiations. The brexit deal the tories brokered is the only one you will get. 

 

And let’s not forget, Eire can and will veto any deal that does not suit them.

 

The EU knows this and will therefore ensure Eire’s concerns are addressed. 

Trouble with the 'deal' that the Remainer Tories capitulated to, is that the whole of parliament kicked it out three times. It's not happening. Now what are you going to do?

There's no deal for Ireland to veto. Everybody knows this, but don't know what to do next.

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, Loiner said:

Trouble with the 'deal' that the Remainer Tories capitulated to, is that the whole of parliament kicked it out three times. It's not happening. Now what are you going to do?

There's no deal for Ireland to veto. Everybody knows this, but don't know what to do next.

There is a deal. One boris thinks he can renegotiate, especially over the backstop. 

 

He can try, but it wont happen. 

 

Eire’s concerns and protection of her interests are firmly embedded in the only deal on offer. 

[Loiner]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

There is a deal. One boris thinks he can renegotiate, especially over the backstop. 

 

He can try, but it wont happen. 

 

Eire’s concerns and protection of her interests are firmly embedded in the only deal on offer. 

No further negotiation of the Surrender Treaty is great. In any negotiations he would only give concessions. There is currently no deal on offer.
Ireland's interests are firmly in arranging something directly with the UK. Why do you not think so?

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, Loiner said:

No further negotiation of the Surrender Treaty is great. In any negotiations he would only give concessions. There is currently no deal on offer.
Ireland's interests are firmly in arranging something directly with the UK. Why do you not think so?

Eire has the EU to back it’s interests. 

 

They tried to deal with the tories after the brexit vote. 

 

Their experiences quickly led them to get the other EU govts behind their interests. 

 

Which is what happened and resulted in the only deal available for the uk. 

[evadgib]

Ireland are watching events very closely but not in a way many would have us believe...  

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

Eire has the EU to back it’s interests. 

 

They tried to deal with the tories after the brexit vote. 

 

Their experiences quickly led them to get the other EU govts behind their interests. 

 

Which is what happened and resulted in the only deal available for the uk. 

The EU is only interested in the EU's interests, otherwise there would be no backstop.

There's no evidence of any attempt by Ireland to make a deal and the EU 'deal' is dead.

What is Ireland going to do now?

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, Loiner said:

The EU is only interested in the EU's interests, otherwise there would be no backstop.

There's no evidence of any attempt by Ireland to make a deal and the EU 'deal' is dead.

What is Ireland going to do now?

The articles I posted links to made it clea attempts were made early after brexit vote to start meaningful talks. They failed because of the tory attitude and lack of commitment. Seriously, have you still not read them...

 

The EU deal is still there.

 

The uk can accept or reject, but that is all they will get.

 

Eire, like the rest of the EU, will get along just nicely, with or without the uk.

[Loiner]

14 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The articles I posted links to made it clea attempts were made early after brexit vote to start meaningful talks. They failed because of the tory attitude and lack of commitment. Seriously, have you still not read them...

 

The EU deal is still there.

 

The uk can accept or reject, but that is all they will get.

 

Eire, like the rest of the EU, will get along just nicely, with or without the uk.

I read them. None gave any detail of an ad hoc agreement, which you claimed was proposed by Ireland. They were all recent years and only one of them referred back to Ireland waking up the day after the referendum and wondering along the lines of "What are we going to do now? We tried a task force but they though it was all too difficult." 

The EU has rejected, three times! Accept it.

Ireland will be screwed unless they get sensible. Accept it.

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, Loiner said:

I read them. None gave any detail of an ad hoc agreement, which you claimed was proposed by Ireland. They were all recent years and only one of them referred back to Ireland waking up the day after the referendum and wondering along the lines of "What are we going to do now? We tried a task force but they though it was all too difficult." 

The EU has rejected, three times! Accept it.

Ireland will be screwed unless they get sensible. Accept it.

And the parts where they refer to Eire holding talks with tories after brexit? Read them did you?

 

Eire is quite safe, they have done all that is possible to ensure their interests are protected in the exit treaty negotiated with the uk.

[Loiner]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

And the parts where they refer to Eire holding talks with tories after brexit? Read them did you?

 

Eire is quite safe, they have done all that is possible to ensure their interests are protected in the exit treaty negotiated with the uk.

Nothing in them about your imaginary ad hoc arrangement. What was the arrangement anyway?

 

Ireland had better sort out somewhere to send all that dairy and meat. Will it be allowed to transship through the UK? What if it all gets stuck in a traffic jam at Dover?

[usviphotography]

On 6/21/2019 at 11:57 PM, sammieuk1 said:

We have to respect the British political system, but we have a responsibility to ensure that the commentary in relation to Ireland and Ireland's position on Brexit is based on facts... People are entitled to their opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

Looks like he is talking about Boris and his facts misleading factory????

He's terrified because the "simplistic" solutions are the solutions, and neither he nor the EU want that. There is no "Irish Problem" for the UK in terms of Brexit. UK could simply leave everything alone after a hard exit and it wouldn't impact their fundamental interests at all. Ireland and more to the point, the EU, would be the ones with the incentive to make unpopular decisions at the border. The threat of a British Government taking over that understands this fundamental dynamic terrifies them.