Johnson warns EU against any 'Napoleonic' tariffs in no-deal Brexit

[tebee]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

How many votes would selling our soul to the devil get?

would suggest you ask Boris about that one.

[bristolboy]

6 minutes ago, tebee said:

would suggest you ask Boris about that one.

Did he ever have one to sell?

[vogie]

29 minutes ago, tebee said:

would suggest you ask Boris about that one.

Why would I ask Boris, if he gets us out of the EU, job done, Tories can have a little respite, if not we will have our modern day Oliver Cromwell in the guise of Nigel Farage to purge parliament of all the useless dross.

[tebee]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

Why would I ask Boris, if he gets us out of the EU, job done, Tories can have a little respite, if not we will have our modern day Oliver Cromwell in the guise of Nigel Farage to purge parliament of all the useless dross.

Cromwell fought 2 civil wars in England + 1 in Ireland and one in Scotland - are you suggesting this is a course to follow?

 

He is still reviled in Ireland for the atrocities he committed there ( personal disclosure - my family is descended from some of his troops who stayed there and got thrown out in 1922)  

 

His commonwealth parliament did not survive long and the monarchy was  restored -that may be very precedent for brexit !

 

 

[vogie]

37 minutes ago, tebee said:

Cromwell fought 2 civil wars in England + 1 in Ireland and one in Scotland - are you suggesting this is a course to follow?

 

He is still reviled in Ireland for the atrocities he committed there ( personal disclosure - my family is descended from some of his troops who stayed there and got thrown out in 1922)  

 

His commonwealth parliament did not survive long and the monarchy was  restored -that may be very precedent for brexit !

 

 

Like Farage, Cromwell was a man of his time, that is exactly what I'm suggesting.

[evadgib]

 

<deleted post>

Edited July 6, 2019 by evadgib

[tebee]

49 minutes ago, vogie said:

Like Farage, Cromwell was a man of his time, that is exactly what I'm suggesting.

I find it ironic that you are championing Cromwell, as it is NI that is blocking brexit and the root cause of all the NI problems is Cromwell 400 years ago !

 

But i fail to see the parallels between Cromwell and Farage. Cromwell  was a man of deep religious conviction, admittedly the sort of conviction that made it OK to slaughter heathens of other faiths, but Farage does not exactly seem to be a man of faith, more grabbing whatever opportunities present themselves. 

 

Unless you are saying the way to get brexit is civil war and the killing of your political opponents ?   

[petemoss]

5 hours ago, Loiner said:

So you think that Yorkshire men should not be allowed to post on a TVF Brexit topic? All and sundry from around the world is allowed to spout off their own opinions, even if it does not affect them at all.

Sounds good to me! 555

[petemoss]

4 hours ago, bannork said:

Is there any international figure of repute who thinks the UK leaving the EU is a good idea?

Trump. part of his divide and conquer policy.

 

Edit: Oops sorry, missed the word "repute" in your post.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by petemoss

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, tebee said:

I find it ironic that you are championing Cromwell, as it is NI that is blocking brexit and the root cause of all the NI problems is Cromwell 400 years ago !

 

But i fail to see the parallels between Cromwell and Farage. Cromwell  was a man of deep religious conviction, admittedly the sort of conviction that made it OK to slaughter heathens of other faiths, but Farage does not exactly seem to be a man of faith, more grabbing whatever opportunities present themselves. 

 

Unless you are saying the way to get brexit is civil war and the killing of your political opponents ?   

It is not wise to suggest that our countrymen of 400 years ago thought the same as we do today tebee, to compare them to us would be total folly, do not judge what happened all those years ago by the standards that we live by today. Yes you are correct religion played a very big part of life in those days, the problem being, the King was only answerable to god, he could do whatever he liked, or thought he could, Cromwell proved he couldn't. I would like to think he changed democracy for the better, I sure Farage could do the same.

As for your last sentence, I will give it the comtempt it deserves.

 

[tebee]

22 minutes ago, vogie said:

It is not wise to suggest that our countrymen of 400 years ago thought the same as we do today tebee, to compare them to us would be total folly, do not judge what happened all those years ago by the standards that we live by today. Yes you are correct religion played a very big part of life in those days, the problem being, the King was only answerable to god, he could do whatever he liked, or thought he could, Cromwell proved he couldn't. I would like to think he changed democracy for the better, I sure Farage could do the same.

As for your last sentence, I will give it the comtempt it deserves.

 

My family lore is that he was a tyrant and treated the Irish very badly - as they were on his side I tend to respect this.

 

But he never really found a parliamentary system that worked - he ended up forcefully disbanding his rump parliament with the words "you are no Parliament, I say you are no Parliament; I will put an end to your sitting" He then appointed himself dictator as Lord Protector, but there was no stability and as soon as he died the new model army marched on London and the monarchy was restored.

 

Maybe a hard brexit would follow a similar course, with us rejoining after some years in the wilderness ?   

[tebee]

 

[wilcopops]

On 7/5/2019 at 1:11 PM, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Wow! And you have the nerve to say I'm misiniformed about the Fishing industry in the UK! INCREDIBLE.

 

'One of the min charateisitics of Brexitism is conservatism' and I think we've all found that the main characteristic of Remainerism is gullibility and self loathing, you prove my point nicely.

QED

[vogie]

7 hours ago, tebee said:

My family lore is that he was a tyrant and treated the Irish very badly - as they were on his side I tend to respect this.

 

But he never really found a parliamentary system that worked - he ended up forcefully disbanding his rump parliament with the words "you are no Parliament, I say you are no Parliament; I will put an end to your sitting" He then appointed himself dictator as Lord Protector, but there was no stability and as soon as he died the new model army marched on London and the monarchy was restored.

 

Maybe a hard brexit would follow a similar course, with us rejoining after some years in the wilderness ?   

I think we should all accept the democratic decision that is Brexit "warts and all"

[petemoss]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

I think we should all accept the democratic decision that is Brexit "warts and all"

Most don't.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, petemoss said:

Most don't.

And most have their own self interests at heart and not the countrys. You just wouldn't believe some of the reasons why remainers don't want to leave the undemocratic EU. Here are but a few:

They already live in mainland Europe and think it may alter their lifestyle.

Some think it might take them longer to get through passport control.

Some have portfolios that have may taken a dip.

They come out with expressions like it will affect the younger generation, when reall they don't know, it will probably affect the younger generation for the better.

Lots of old people that voted leave are now dead.

Only 27% of the population voted to leave, it's not the will of the people.

Referendums are just a stupid way to decide things, unless it their way of course, then suddenly they become the best thing since sliced bread.

Anyway I'm sure you get my drift.

 

[billd766]

15 hours ago, bannork said:

So 12,948,018 couldn't be bothered to vote and 16,141,241 voted to remain, whilst 17,410,742 voted to leave.

So only 17,410,742 voted to leave whilst 29,089,259 voted to remain or couldn't be bothered to leave.

It's not exactly a ringing majority to leave, is it?

You are cherry picking for arguments sake, not only that but you are twisting my comments.

 

If you accept that 52% would vote to leave that means that the leave numbers would have come to another 6,732,969 or a total of 24,143,711 which is still more than the remainers whichever way you cut it.

 

Why is it that the Remainers are always asking for a second referendum before the first one has been completed? Why can they not simply accept the fact that they lost?

 

In a general election only the votes cast are recorded and they are the ones that count and that is where the party with the most votes and elected MPs becomes the government.

[bannork]

23 minutes ago, billd766 said:

You are cherry picking for arguments sake, not only that but you are twisting my comments.

 

If you accept that 52% would vote to leave that means that the leave numbers would have come to another 6,732,969 or a total of 24,143,711 which is still more than the remainers whichever way you cut it.

 

Why is it that the Remainers are always asking for a second referendum before the first one has been completed? Why can they not simply accept the fact that they lost?

 

In a general election only the votes cast are recorded and they are the ones that count and that is where the party with the most votes and elected MPs becomes the government.

Please look at the facts

12,948,018 couldn't be bothered to vote. That means they didn't vote to leave.

16,141,241 voted to remain

17,410,742 voted to leave.

So 17,410,742 people out of a total of 46,500,001 voted to leave.

Only 37.44% of the adult population voted to leave.

(Apologies for maths yesterday, a bit out).

But this is not a general election. It's much more serious than that. The impact of leaving the EU, especially a no deal Brexit will be much much more than if Labour, for instance, replaced the Tories for one possible 4 year term.

The referendum never said leave meant a no deal Brexit. If you want to leave democratically with a no deal Brexit then I suggest another referendum.

 

[tebee]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

And most have their own self interests at heart and not the countrys. You just wouldn't believe some of the reasons why remainers don't want to leave the undemocratic EU. Here are but a few:

They already live in mainland Europe and think it may alter their lifestyle.

Some think it might take them longer to get through passport control.

Some have portfolios that have may taken a dip.

They come out with expressions like it will affect the younger generation, when reall they don't know, it will probably affect the younger generation for the better.

Lots of old people that voted leave are now dead.

Only 27% of the population voted to leave, it's not the will of the people.

Referendums are just a stupid way to decide things, unless it their way of course, then suddenly they become the best thing since sliced bread.

Anyway I'm sure you get my drift.

 

OK Leave is bad for me .

 

But it's also bad for the country.

 

Furthermore the referendum was won on a campaign full of lies  and cheating on expenses.

 

What we are offered now is completely different to what was promised before the ref. It's the old bait and switch routine.

 

If we are forced to respect a result obtained by lying and cheating we normalise these as part of British politics.

 

No politician need ever tell the truth again.

 

We will have destroyed the very democracy you say you want to respect.       

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, tebee said:

OK Leave is bad for me .

 

But it's also bad for the country.

 

Furthermore the referendum was won on a campaign full of lies  and cheating on expenses.

 

What we are offered now is completely different to what was promised before the ref. It's the old bait and switch routine.

 

If we are forced to respect a result obtained by lying and cheating we normalise these as part of British politics.

 

No politician need ever tell the truth again.

 

We will have destroyed the very democracy you say you want to respect.       

We will have destroyed the very democracy you say you want to respect.

 

It has to be said tebee that is the most rediculous thing I've ever heard, surely by not carrying out the will of the majority of electorate (72.2% turnout of voters) will destroy democracy.

As for the first part of your post, it is total echolalia.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2019 by vogie

[nauseus]

10 minutes ago, bannork said:

Please look at the facts

12,948,018 couldn't be bothered to vote. That means they didn't vote to leave.

16,141,241 voted to remain

17,410,742 voted to leave.

So 17,410,742 people out of a total of 46,500,001 voted to leave.

Only 37.44% of the adult population voted to leave.

(Apologies for maths yesterday, a bit out).

But this is not a general election. It's much more serious than that. The impact of leaving the EU, especially a no deal Brexit will be much much more than if Labour, for instance, replaced the Tories for one possible 4 year term.

The referendum never said leave meant a no deal Brexit. If you want to leave democratically with a no deal Brexit then I suggest another referendum.

 

Numbers better but a UK Gov is elected for 5 years.

 

The referendum ballot ticket basically said leave or remain. Deals were not mentioned either way, with no complaints at the time. But as soon as leave won a democratic victory, then remain were after conditions  to be applied retroactively, or wanted to just void the vote completely. It beats me how they can even use the words democracy or democratically? 

 

[transam]

8 minutes ago, tebee said:

OK Leave is bad for me .

 

But it's also bad for the country.

 

Furthermore the referendum was won on a campaign full of lies  and cheating on expenses.

 

What we are offered now is completely different to what was promised before the ref. It's the old bait and switch routine.

 

If we are forced to respect a result obtained by lying and cheating we normalise these as part of British politics.

 

No politician need ever tell the truth again.

 

We will have destroyed the very democracy you say you want to respect.       

Folk voted because of what was happening on UK streets, many do not understand the tech stuff and don't want too...Getting our streets back controlled by it's own government is what was voted for...Read this just today....

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-break-huge-modern-day-124156064.html

[petemoss]

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

As for the first part of your post, it is total echolalia.

So who's words is he repeating?

[vogie]

Just now, petemoss said:

So who's words is he repeating?

Remainers of course, worm or maggot today?

[bannork]

33 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Numbers better but a UK Gov is elected for 5 years.

 

The referendum ballot ticket basically said leave or remain. Deals were not mentioned either way, with no complaints at the time. But as soon as leave won a democratic victory, then remain were after conditions  to be applied retroactively, or wanted to just void the vote completely. It beats me how they can even use the words democracy or democratically? 

 

It beats me how they can hold a referendum with no details. Leave with what agreements, deals?

A stupid referendum.

So after 3 years Johnson is prepared to leave with no deals. Well let's see if the public agree with that by holding another referendum.

[7by7]

23 minutes ago, nauseus said:

<snip>

The referendum ballot ticket basically said leave or remain. Deals were not mentioned either way, with no complaints at the time. But as soon as leave won a democratic victory, then remain were after conditions  to be applied retroactively, or wanted to just void the vote completely. It beats me how they can even use the words democracy or democratically? 

Indeed, the ballot paper did basically say that.

 

But the majority of those who voted did so based upon what had been said by each side in the campaign.

 

Leave's campaign made little or no mention of the economic effects of Brexit, no mention of the loss of free trade with the EU; no mention of the UK no longer being part of the EU's trade deals with the rest of the world: no mention that a no deal Brexit meant trading with everyone of WTO terms alone until we could negotiate deals with the |EU and others; no mention of the dire economic effects, job losses etc. a no deal Brexit would have.

 

Whenever a Remain campaigner did mention any of the above, Leave simply repeated their mantra 'Project Fear' as if that were some magic spell which would save us from our own folly.

 

But as you have claimed elsewhere that you paid no heed to any campaigning during the run rup to the referendum, you wont have known any of that!

 

The conditions which Remain, and many Brexiteers, want to apply retrospectively are contained in the deal we negotiate with the EU; whether it be May's deal or a new one. 

 

As Parliament has refused to agree to any such deal for MP's personal gain and party political reasons, many, myself included, believe that the issue should be put back to the people.

 

Accept the deal on offer, whatever it may be, or leave with no deal, or cancel the whole thing and remain.

 

Voters allowed to vote for their first and second preference. If no choice has 50% plus 1 of the votes then remove the option with the fewest votes and allocate the second choice on those papers accordingly.

 

You and other Brexiteers bang on about democracy, but are terrified of giving the people the ultimate democratic right to make this final decision; why?

 

Well, the answer's obvious!

[transam]

2 minutes ago, bannork said:

It beats me how they can hold a referendum with no details. Leave with what agreements, deals?

A stupid referendum.

So after 3 years Johnson is prepared to leave with no deals. Well let's see if the public agree with that by holding another referendum.

It seems you still don't understand what the vote was for......????

 

To remind you, OUT the EU.......YES or NO....

[transam]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Indeed, the ballot paper did basically say that.

 

But the majority of those who voted did so based upon what had been said by each side in the campaign.

 

Leave's campaign made little or no mention of the economic effects of Brexit, no mention of the loss of free trade with the EU; no mention of the UK no longer being part of the EU's trade deals with the rest of the world: no mention that a no deal Brexit meant trading with everyone of WTO terms alone until we could negotiate deals with the |EU and others; no mention of the dire economic effects, job losses etc. a no deal Brexit would have.

 

Whenever a Remain campaigner did mention any of the above, Leave simply repeated their mantra 'Project Fear' as if that were some magic spell which would save us from our own folly.

 

But as you have claimed elsewhere that you paid no heed to any campaigning during the run rup to the referendum, you wont have known any of that!

 

The conditions which Remain, and many Brexiteers, want to apply retrospectively are contained in the deal we negotiate with the EU; whether it be May's deal or a new one. 

 

As Parliament has refused to agree to any such deal for MP's personal gain and party political reasons, many, myself included, believe that the issue should be put back to the people.

 

Accept the deal on offer, whatever it may be, or leave with no deal, or cancel the whole thing and remain.

 

Voters allowed to vote for their first and second preference. If no choice has 50% plus 1 of the votes then remove the option with the fewest votes and allocate the second choice on those papers accordingly.

 

You and other Brexiteers bang on about democracy, but are terrified of giving the people the ultimate democratic right to make this final decision; why?

 

Well, the answer's obvious!

Do you actually know what you're on about....?

[petemoss]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

Do you actually know what you're on about....?

He does, I do and you don't want to as it interferes with your Brexiteer agenda.

[evadgib]

58 minutes ago, tebee said:

Furthermore the referendum was won on a campaign full of lies

'They didn't know what they were voting for' hasn't worked from day one and is frankly patronising from the side that believe they did.