Photo of drowned migrants triggers fight over Trump asylum clampdown

[lannarebirth]

1 minute ago, Tug said:

A sad end to a young family to solve or at least ease this fiasco at our border will that leadership and compermise to things Donald doesent poses we will have to wait till after 2020 before any real progress will be made

 

I remember I was in El Paso in 1968 on my way to Juarez for a visit with Pancho Villa's widow. While waiting the 15 minutes to cross the border into Mexico at least 100 people I saw crossed the Rio Grande from Mexico into the US. What's different now?

[sammieuk1]

9 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

How so? I've watched people crossing that river into the US for the past 50 years. What's Trump got to do with it? 

I suppose you could read the news????

[lannarebirth]

5 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

I suppose you could read the news????

 

It's an all day everyday occurrence for forever. I ask you again, what's Trump got to do with it? 

[Bang Bang]

The US should ask Mexico to allow it to set up a few asylum processing centers for Latin American migrants along the latter's borders with Guatemala and Belize, holding centers being in Mexico and run by Mexicans. Moreover, illegals caught at the US border will be shipped to these new centers.

 

There is no way the US is going to fix it's southern border without involving Mexico.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Bang Bang

[Bang Bang]

8 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

It's an all day everyday occurrence for forever. I ask you again, what's Trump got to do with it? 

Nothing except that it happened on his watch. You get to fly Air Force 1, you are responsible.

[Chomper Higgot]

12 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

It's an all day everyday occurrence for forever. I ask you again, what's Trump got to do with it? 

Remind me, where did the buck used to stop?

[lannarebirth]

3 minutes ago, Bang Bang said:

Nothing except that it happened on his watch. You get to fly Air Force 1, you are responsible.

 

That is the correct context in which to view it IMO. 

[manarak]

Illegal immigrants die on this border because it's possible to cross it. Sealing the border off by completing the border wall that was constructed to 50% by other administrations, and people will know there is no way instead of making risky choices.

 

[usviphotography]

1 minute ago, manarak said:

Illegal immigrants die on this border because it's possible to cross it. Sealing the border off by completing the border wall that was constructed to 50% by other administrations, and people will know there is no way instead of making risky choices.

 

Yup. From America's standpoint the priority is sealing the border for our own sake, but the irony is Trump's supposedly harsh policies would be best for the migrants too and if they had been in place these two people would still be alive today. Trump still gets some criticism because he hasn't put enough of a priority on shutting down the mess at the border, but at least he's trying. If the Dems ever took power these sort of deaths would become a daily occurrence as hundreds of millions stampede the border. 

[mike787]

It took a photo?  Really? So now what?  The world will change.  Just like the floating trash, CM smog, Thailands deadliest roads...YEP! Now we see Nirvana!  All will be perfect or better in this world than before...right!

[lannarebirth]

9 minutes ago, usviphotography said:

Yup. From America's standpoint the priority is sealing the border for our own sake, but the irony is Trump's supposedly harsh policies would be best for the migrants too and if they had been in place these two people would still be alive today. Trump still gets some criticism because he hasn't put enough of a priority on shutting down the mess at the border, but at least he's trying. If the Dems ever took power these sort of deaths would become a daily occurrence as hundreds of millions stampede the border. 

 

Dozens of people die annually from riding in the backs of semi trailers. No photographer on the scene for those I guess. No one blame the coyotes it seems.

[Bang Bang]

3 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

Suggesting that this father was in any way responsible for his own daughter's safety could get you suspended.

Of course, he was. The liberal utopia where everything is someone else's fault hasn't arrived yet.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah the champagne thing is over the top, but if people support "trump" and his policies of METERING asylum applications which is the sick policy that led to those tragic deaths, then sorry Charlie, they are indeed part of the problem. 

Which is probably why it is time to start looking at genuine refugee/asylum seekers as opposed to economic migrants.

 

Why on earth are there so many 'asylum seekers' from countries that are not at war/have little record of discrimination etc. held in 'refugee' centres?

[usviphotography]

5 minutes ago, manarak said:

 

the death of the father and his daughter is sad, but the political instrumentalization of it is disgusting.  it's in the same vein as when the right wing instrumentalizes isolated crimes committed by immigrants to stir racism and xenophobia.

Or when people use the smog in Chaing Mai as a segue to complain about pollution, right? Darn these people who keep on bringing up concrete examples of the failure of government policy to criticize government policy. You can't advocate for a policy which encourages people to bring their children on a perilous journey across the desert that is certain to produce many deaths and even more sexual assaults and then wash your hands of the consequences.  

Edited June 27, 2019 by usviphotography

[manarak]

3 minutes ago, usviphotography said:

Or when people use the smog in Chaing Mai as a segue to complain about pollution, right? Darn these people who keep on bringing up concrete examples of the failure of government policy to criticize government policy. 

nope, not the same.

it would be the same if political activists used pollution to blame it on their political adversaries, despite having no good solution themselves.

i.e. used as a political tool vs. offering real solutions to the problem. see the difference?

Edited June 27, 2019 by manarak

[Bang Bang]

8 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Which is probably why it is time to start looking at genuine refugee/asylum seekers as opposed to economic migrants.

 

Why on earth are there so many 'asylum seekers' from countries that are not at war/have little record of discrimination etc. held in 'refugee' centres?

Sad but true that this was a family of economic migrants. Apparently, both husband and wife had low-paying jobs, were not the target of gangs, but simply wanted a better life.

 

Sucks to say but the US (or any other country for that matter) does not have an obligation to take in people who want to make better wages.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Bang Bang

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Tell me, which US law hands out the death penalty for being an undocumented immigrant?

 

You might find such a law in some totalitarian state, but you’ll not find it in the US, a nation of immigrants.

 

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Is that you trying to hyperbole your way out of facing the reality of this tragedy?

 

 

You mean the same sort of hyperbole as your post above?

[stevenl]

47 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

It's an all day everyday occurrence for forever. I ask you again, what's Trump got to do with it? 

That question has been answered quite a few times already.

[Joinaman]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Is that you trying to hyperbole your way out of facing the reality of this tragedy?

 

 

so what is the reality of this tragedy ?

Somebody tries to sneak in to a country he has no legal right to enter ? and does so with a young child

Would you all be saying the same things if it was just a male adult ?

Nobody is forcing them to cross, they can apply while in Mexico and wait till approved, or not approved, just like any other honest person does

 

[Mavideol]

the sad thing is that he's using the tragedy to negotiate (black mail) wall funding with the Dems,  Weren't Trump parents or his mother an undocumented immigrant, what about his wife and her parents? is he suffering from short term memory syndrome

[usviphotography]

4 minutes ago, manarak said:

nope, not the same.

it would be the same if political activists used pollution to blame it on their political adversaries, despite having no good solution themselves.

i.e. used as a political tool vs. offering real solutions to the problem. see the difference?

Well, since the Right has been offering in depth proposals to secure the border for years, no, I don't see the difference. In fact, you just highlighted the similarities. American Conservatives are pretty much the "Greens" of migration politics. They are the only ones on either side who have consistently been offering up policy solutions that would solve the problem. 

[dick dasterdly]

49 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

It's an all day everyday occurrence for forever. I ask you again, what's Trump got to do with it? 

 

40 minutes ago, Bang Bang said:

Nothing except that it happened on his watch. You get to fly Air Force 1, you are responsible.

A typically pointless response.

 

Perhaps it would be better if you came up with reasons as to why trump is suddenly to blame for these horrible deaths suffered by economic migrants in their desperate attempts to enter other countries?

[atyclb]

3 hours ago, attrayant said:

4 hours ago, chilli42 said:

The only way this is going to stop is for Mexico to step up their border security with Central America

 

Why should it fall upon Mexico to protect the borders of another country?

 

border security with central america would suggest mexico would be protecting their own border

[Joinaman]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah the champagne thing is over the top, but if people support "trump" and his policies of METERING asylum applications which is the sick policy that led to those tragic deaths, then sorry Charlie, they are indeed part of the problem. 

So you think there should be no limit on economic migrants wanting to enter?

You think nobody should obey the laws and apply outside the country and wait till application is approved ?

They are not fleeing a war, they are economic migrants, wanting a better life, just like most of us here, the only difference is most of us obey the laws 

They don't have to stay in the camps do they, they have a free bus pass back over the border anytime they want 

[Bang Bang]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

A typically pointless response.

 

Perhaps it would be better if you came up with reasons as to why trump is suddenly to blame for these horrible deaths suffered by economic migrants in their desperate attempts to enter other countries?

Let me explain this to you in simple Thai:

 

Where have ploblem? US border.

Who man make border policy? US plesident.

Who have now US plesident? Donal Tlump.

 

Khowjai, mai?

Edited June 27, 2019 by Bang Bang

[Chazar]

Apparently I not allowed to give my  viewpoint!!

Edited June 27, 2019 by Chazar

[simple1]

So far as I know their is no evidence the father was an 'economic refugee', can you demonstrate otherwise? The OP claims he was seeking asylum. It is claimed the father and daughter had reached the US side of the river, the father went back to help his wife, but his daughter jumped back into the river to be with her father; we know the result.  Your unedifying tone is unfortunate.

 

As we know the border situation is complex, as are the circumstances in the source countries. Comments such as your's and no doubt from many others in social media fuel anti asylum seeker attitudes. As yet it is not illegal under US law to claim asylum seeker protection for vetting as a refugee. The problem created by trump is asylum seekers are being turned away at points of entry thereby contributing to the scenario of the OP.

[manarak]

8 minutes ago, simple1 said:

So far as I know their is no evidence the father was an 'economic refugee', can you demonstrate otherwise? The OP claims he was seeking asylum.

yes, here is an interview of the unfortunate man's mother:

https://mobile.reuters.com/video/2019/06/26/mother-of-dead-migrant-speaks-of-sons-am?videoId=567220441&videoChannel=117760

the family clearly had/has no valid reasons for requesting asylum.

if he had made an asylum request using truthful information, it would surely have been immediately denied.

I guess all illegal border crossers know that.

Edited June 27, 2019 by manarak

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, manarak said:

yes, here is an interview of the unfortunate man's mother:

https://mobile.reuters.com/video/2019/06/26/mother-of-dead-migrant-speaks-of-sons-am?videoId=567220441&videoChannel=117760

Thanks. IMO does not justify vilification of the father who was seeking a 'better life' for his family. Life without hope for a better future must be a strong motivator. Doesn't help that trump has cancelled aid for El Salvador.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/us-officials-said-aid-to-el-salvador-helped-slow-migration-now-trump-is-canceling-it/2019/04/01/5a8ca570-540a-11e9-aa83-504f086bf5d6_story.html?utm_term=.cc00fed4231e

[Joinaman]

13 minutes ago, simple1 said:

So far as I know their is no evidence the father was an 'economic refugee', can you demonstrate otherwise? The OP claims he was seeking asylum. It is claimed the father and daughter had reached the US side of the river, the father went back to help his wife, but his daughter jumped back into the river to be with her father; we know the result.  Your unedifying tone is unfortunate.

 

As we know the border situation is complex, as are the circumstances in the source countries. Comments such as your's and no doubt from many others in social media fuel anti asylum seeker attitudes. As yet it is not illegal under US law to claim asylum seeker protection for vetting as a refugee. The problem created by trump is asylum seekers are being turned away at points of entry thereby contributing to the scenario of the OP.

do we have proof he was seeking asylum, rather than an economic migrant ?

If he was an asylum seeker, why risk the life of your child, when as you say. he  could apply for asylum while outside the country ?

if asylum seeker, what is he fleeing from . and why doe he have to go to america to feel safe, when lots of other safe places

The tone is not as unfortunate as the poor child losing its life for the greed of the parents