65000 Baht Wire Transfer for Thai Retirement Visa (Failure and Scam)

[bkk6060]

I do not understand it.

I have Chase Bank.

My retirement check goes into Chase on the first and I set up a transfer to BKK Bank every month.  I just received it today and have been doing it this way for several years.

When I set it up I simply added BKK bank online for the transfer since they have a US facility.

No Swift code blah blah.

It takes 2 days to receive it in my BKK account. And, it is always identified as "international transfer".

 

With this sorry OP about your issue but maybe you will learn to always proceed on the side of caution here.

If 65,000 make it 70

If 800,000 make it 850

If 2 months make it 3.

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by bkk6060

[Carolina Reaper]

8 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

I do not understand it.

I have Chase Bank.

My retirement check goes into Chase on the first and I set up a transfer to BKK Bank every month.  I just received it today and have been doing it this way for several years.

When I set it up I simply added BKK bank online for the transfer since they have a US facility.

No Swift code blah blah.

It takes 2 days to receive it in my BKK account. And, it is always identified as "international transfer".

That will stop soon.

 

"With effective from April 1, 2019, New York branch only process ACH with appropriate IAT format and all non-IAT transactions will be returned." The thing is, no U.S. based consumer account has been blessed with the ability (by the financial institution) to capture the necessary additional info and then send in IAT format.

 

See https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch. 

 

An extra grace period is being extended by BKKB. So you will need to find another method soon.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Carolina Reaper

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Carolina Reaper said:

An extra grace period is being extended by BKKB. So you will need to find another method soon.

 

in another thread on the topic of the BKKB NY ACH transfers to Thailand, posters were reporting having been able to do transfers in the past couple days into July. So apparently once again, BKKB has backed off its self-declared cutoff deadline.

 

The only problem is, no one still knows when and if the ax is going to fall, creating more uncertainty. But at least the xfers are still going thru in the meantime.

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[bkk6060]

5 minutes ago, Carolina Reaper said:

That will stop soon.

 

"With effective from April 1, 2019, New York branch only process ACH with appropriate IAT format and all non-IAT transactions will be returned." The thing is, no U.S. based consumer account has been blessed with the ability (by the financial institution) to capture the necessary additional info and then send in IAT format.

 

See https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch. 

 

An extra grace period is being extended by BKKB. So you will need to find another method soon.

We will see.

I got a letter from BKK Bank stating June 1 so I assume it took effect.

Two transfers later no issues.

[Maestro]

14 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

 

…With this sorry OP about your issue but maybe you will learn to always proceed on the side of caution here.

If 65,000 make it 70

If 800,000 make it 850

If 2 months make it 3.

 

No, don't make it Baht. Make it dollars and allow for exchange rate fluctuations and bank fees.

[Lacessit]

It sounds to me like the OP was an unwitting victim of Dynamic Currency Conversion ( DCC ), which is a polite term for legal theft. ALWAYS transfer in the currency of your country of origin - dollars, GBP, Swiss francs, whatever. NEVER transfer in Thai baht.

Thai bank conversion rates are actually quite reasonable, IMO.

[NCC1701A]

2 hours ago, usmike said:

This number must be inputted into their screen within 30 seconds to move forward on their software; this occurs 4 times. Try doing this from Thailand?

as an American you must have a cellphone that roams in Thailand with your US cellphone provider for all bank transfers and many other internet sites if you need to authenticate. I use T-mobile prepay, $3 a month for 30 SMS messages. 

 

Wells Fargo charges $45 for a SWIFT transfer to Bangkok Bank, and you request the money be sent in US dollars. There is a 5000 dollar per month limit. 

 

Not sure how this appears on your BB bank account. 

 

If you can put 800k baht in a Thai bank all this aggravation goes away. 

 

[Carolina Reaper]

10 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

We will see.

I got a letter from BKK Bank stating June 1 so I assume it took effect.

Two transfers later no issues.

Nope, it hasn't yet gone into effect. And, actually, Chase is behind the times. Even their commercial division can't accommodate IAT.

 

[3] Chase Commercial Online is not designed or intended to be used for any ACH Transaction that is required to be formatted under the NACHA rules as an “International ACH Transaction” (or IAT).

 

I'd been using New York branch for a few years, just like you. But I stopped because I didn't want the big surprise later at some random time after April 1. 

[pontious]

32 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

If 65,000 make it 70

Could have sent any amount - it arrived domestic transfer so  no good.

[Maestro]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It sounds to me like the OP was an unwitting victim of Dynamic Currency Conversion ( DCC )…

Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) refers to credit card payments, not to an account holder's payment order to his bank for an international remittance.

[SteveK]

Sometimes it seems that Thai workers and officials must have been told the following:

 

"Do whatever you can to hinder or hamper a farang trying to do anything. Make their life as difficult as possible. Look for any possible reason to refuse or deny whatever they are asking for. If you can't find anything wrong, make something up. They shouldn't be here and we don't want them here, so do your duty to the Thai government and country by following this directive to the letter. If you have no option but to allow their request, then at least try and charge as much as possible or stall until they offer to pay a fee. And finally, never tell anyone about this command. This message will self-destruct in 5 minutes."

Edited July 3, 2019 by SteveK

[Maestro]

43 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

…Wells Fargo charges $45 for a SWIFT transfer to Bangkok Bank, and you request the money be sent in US dollars. There is a 5000 dollar per month limit…

In today's age of electronic data processing, USD 45 for an international remittance is excessive. With this fee, Wells Fargo is telling its customers that it does not like to do this type of transaction. The USD 5000 monthly limit sends the same message.

[Pib]

OP,

  You really should be mostly mad at yourself for various reasons such as:

 

(1) making the selection to allow Wells Fargo to accomplish the currency exchange.  Western bank exchange rates are significantly lower than the exchange rate given by Thai banks.  Never again allow the sending bank to accomplish the exchange as their lower exchange rate is basically an indirect fee.  And I expect the Wells Fargo language where you selected to send USD or THB was vague...kinda misleading hoping to hook you into making the selection to allow Wells Fargo to accomplish the change.  No doubt similar to vague/misleading language that ATMs all to often offer in a DCC transaction. 

 

(2) not expecting a fee along the way after Wells Fargo sent it such as an intermediary bank and/or receiving bank fee.  Most Thai banks charge a 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) receiving fee whether the currency arrives in USD or THB or Martian dollars.  And if your bank is outside the Bangkok metro area their might be an inter-province transfer fee...the exact fee will vary depending on the routing of the transfer and your Thai bank.   

 

(3) sending exactly Bt65K and needing Bt65K to arrive when not knowing about the intermediary/receiving bank fee....don't blame that on the Wells Fargo or any bank along the way as intermediary/receiving bank fees are to be expected for a SWIFT or ACH transfer.

 

Mark this down as a lesson learned the hard way.  

[darrendsd]

Not read all of this thread so not sure if it has already been said but it is quite common in Thailand at least that if a Thai Bank does not have a "Account" with the foreign bank sending the transfer the foreign bank will route it through a Thai bank that they do have a account with and then it is transferred on to the recipient bank

 

It very much sounds like this has what has happened here

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Maestro said:

In today's age of electronic data processing, USD 45 for an international remittance is excessive. With this fee, Wells Fargo is telling its customers that it does like to do this type of transaction. The USD 5000 monthly limit sends the same message.

 

My impression has always been that U.S. banks, at the consumer level, don't seem to do a lot of business in the way of international fund transfers. The staff in branches there often seem relatively clueless on that subject.

 

I'm not sure why that is... Part of the reason may be the extortionate fees that a lot of the mega U.S. banks charge for international wire transfers have driven away most of their prospective customers. Combined with, there increasingly are other non-bank methods of sending funds internationally that are more economical.

 

Although, with Thai Immigration and their new monthly foreign transfers rule to replace the now discontinued Embassy income affidavits for US, UK, Aus and Danish folks, the good old fashioned international wire transfer is probably the safest way to ensure you transaction actually meets Immigration's requirements.

 

[Pib]

I figure banks are fully aware that people who use SWIFT probably don't have an alternate/cheaper international sending method and therefore many banks charge a high SWIFT fee.  They have a customer base that is willing to pay a high SWIFT fee (not to imply that customer base is happy about it).  Plus the fees earned from SWIFT transfers is a drop in the bank's overall profit bucket.

[jackdd]

It's not really a scam, it's just not as easy as you think it is.

Your bank in the US and Bangkok Bank don't have any direct connection, so they used Kasikorn in between, maybe this just happened because your US bank bought the THB from them, maybe it will always happen.

So Kasikorn charged you a fee for transferring the money, can happen with any international transfer.

As others mentioned already, never send THB, always send the foreign currency, the exchange rates of the Thai banks are always better than these of US or European banks.

[asiaexpat]

After several years using WF for anything while in Thailand I found them unreliable and not cost effective. The customer service is polite but not helpful. I gave up and now use Transferwise to transfer funds and USAA for other banking.

[NCC1701A]

32 minutes ago, Maestro said:

In today's age of electronic data processing, USD 45 for an international remittance is excessive. With this fee, Wells Fargo is telling its customers that it does not like to do this type of transaction. The USD 5000 monthly limit sends the same message.

yes thank you, the op was specifically talking about WF. Bank of America charges $45 but allows $15,000 per transfer.

I can not recommend BofA as they are a horrible bank. They closed my account after 20 years without warning or disclosing why.

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by NCC1701A

[Lefty]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The problem could of resulted due you doing the transfer as baht. You a get better exchange rate here than what you get when you do the transfer in baht in the states.

Try transferring a small amount in dollars to see if goes directly to Bangkok Bank.

I use WELLS FARGO TO MAKE MONTHLY WIRE TRANSFERS ON LINE AND TRANSFER DOLLARS. Transfers are in my BB account next day. As UJ says you need to transfer U.S. DOLLARS.YOUR BIG PROBLEM WILL BE SOLVED.WHY WOULD YOU TRANSFER BAHT WITH THE VERY POOR EXCHANGE RATE?

Lefty

[Pib]

20 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Although, with Thai Immigration and their new monthly foreign transfers rule to replace the now discontinued Embassy income affidavits for US, UK, Aus and Danish folks, the good old fashioned international wire transfer is probably the safest way to ensure you transaction actually meets Immigration's requirements.

Yeap...agree.

 

But it seems with more and more "money transfer systems/methods" popping up even using SWIFT and expecting your receiving bank to clearly describe the transfer as an international transfer is not a sure thing....becoming less of a sure thing everyday.

 

Banks and money transfer services like Transferwise are always looking for "cheaper" ways to transfer money.  And if that means changing the routing/method to where BahtNet or SMART or some other local funds transfer system is involved then they will use that routing/system.   And with that routing how the transfer finally arrives and is coded/described at your receiving bank can change which can rock (or overturn) a person's boat.  You still got your money....but the coding/description of the transfer may cause issues for you like needing a transfer identified as international if using the monthly income method for immigration extension of stay purposes.

 

Even folks who use Transferwise and send to Bangkok Bank have been getting a surprise as of the last week as discussed in a related thread where it appears the final leg of a Transferwise transfer is beginning to use the SMART funds transfer system which changes the transfer description on a person's Bangkok Bank account from FTT/International Transfer to SMT/SMART....gone is that warm & fuzzy, clear description of an international transfer (not that is ever really was an international transfer).  

 

And for the U.S. Social Security new International Direct Deposit (IDD) program to Thailand the final leg is via BahtNet which provides a BTN/Bahtnet coding and description versus the warm & fuzzy FTT/International Transfer if sent via ACH.

 

 

[KittenKong]

Wells Fargo Bank. Give me a break. Cowboy Bank more like it.

 

When will Americans learn that their banks are the very worst in the entire world when it comes to international transfers? Most cant even do transfers within the states properly.

 

I am not a fan of Bangkok Bank but please dont blame them for your US bank's incompetence.

[Acharn]

My credit union in the states told me the only way to make a wire transfer to an overseas bank was to telephone their office and set it up. This cannot be made a recurring event -- you have to call every month. I do not know why they think telephones are "more secure" than my regular connection to my account. Several government offices I have to deal with feel the same way. They want you to telephone. The nice service representative also told me I should look up "Automated Clearing House," which led me to Transferwise, which has worked fine since February. The fee is a few cents less than a wire transfer would cost, but it normally takes four or five days for the money to arrive. Oh, I use Bangkok Bank, too, and when I update my bank book the FFT code has always been there. Not many transactions yet, but I feel confident they will get it right. I can't imagine why you continue to use Wells Fargo, which has been caught cheating millions of their customers for years.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

33 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

And for the U.S. Social Security new International Direct Deposit (IDD) program to Thailand the final leg is via BahtNet which provides a BTN/Bahtnet coding and description versus the warm & fuzzy FTT/International Transfer if sent via ACH.

 

 

Pib, I'm not on SS yet, so that's news to me...

 

Thus, what does that mean about the ability (or inability) of SS direct deposit transfers to meet Immigration's requirement for foreign transfers into a Thai bank?

 

If the bank book doesn't show a foreign transfer coding, that sounds potentially problematic...

 

I wonder if the receiving Thai bank of such a SS deposit is going to be willing to issue their standard foreign bank transfer deposit letter to give to Immigration, based on transfers that come into their systems at BTN...

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, Acharn said:

My credit union in the states told me the only way to make a wire transfer to an overseas bank was to telephone their office and set it up. This cannot be made a recurring event -- you have to call every month. 

 

The only reason for the telephone part is that's the process your credit union has chosen to use. AFAIK, there's no reason they have to, or are required to, do it that way. It's certainly possible to do online-initiated international wire transfers via some U.S. financial institutions, though clearly not all.

 

[poohy]

Not a scam its just Bangkok bank / your bank use a corespondent bank to transfer cash nothing new here.

ALSO never EVER  transfer baht to Thailand always transfer your currency

[aqua4]

 

4 hours ago, usmike said:

I contacted my Thailand Bank (Bangkok Bank, Jomtien) and they provided the nice card showing the swift code and routing number, all very clear, and they explained the FFT code (Foreign Funds Transfer) that will show next to each transfer.

Its your fault as you did it the wrong way. You dont send it to Jomtien Branch you have to send the money to Bangkok Bank New York Branch with your Bangkok Bank account number in Thailand. Its simple as you can even do it with Paypal.  You get the money the next day. You sent it to Jomtein Branch so now they will look for a corresponding bank in Thailand which might not be Bangkok Bank. 

 

 

 

[treetops]

1 hour ago, Acharn said:

Not many transactions yet, but I feel confident they will get it right.

Another one who hasn't read the current thread discussing Transferwise's change in procedures which means this can no longer be guaranteed for now.

[gk10002000]

3 hours ago, Acharn said:

My credit union in the states told me the only way to make a wire transfer to an overseas bank was to telephone their office and set it up. This cannot be made a recurring event -- you have to call every month. I do not know why they think telephones are "more secure" than my regular connection to my account. Several government offices I have to deal with feel the same way. They want you to telephone. The nice service representative also told me I should look up "Automated Clearing House," which led me to Transferwise, which has worked fine since February. The fee is a few cents less than a wire transfer would cost, but it normally takes four or five days for the money to arrive. Oh, I use Bangkok Bank, too, and when I update my bank book the FFT code has always been there. Not many transactions yet, but I feel confident they will get it right. I can't imagine why you continue to use Wells Fargo, which has been caught cheating millions of their customers for years.

Etrade will also NOT do any sort of automatic recurring transfer.  You must call them or submit the transfer forms every time you want to make the transfer.  Crazy that in this day and age of electronic payments, domestic auto pay, etc.

[Traubert]

5 hours ago, SteveK said:

Sometimes it seems that Thai workers and officials must have been told the following:

 

"Do whatever you can to hinder or hamper a farang trying to do anything. Make their life as difficult as possible. Look for any possible reason to refuse or deny whatever they are asking for. If you can't find anything wrong, make something up. They shouldn't be here and we don't want them here, so do your duty to the Thai government and country by following this directive to the letter. If you have no option but to allow their request, then at least try and charge as much as possible or stall until they offer to pay a fee. And finally, never tell anyone about this command. This message will self-destruct in 5 minutes."

Pretty desperate to try and pin the blame on Thailand when 99.99% of other posters have detailed various flaws in the OP's methodology and the inefficiency of American banks.

 

Need a better conspiracy theory.