PRASAC MFI- CAMBODIA

[Scouse123]

Hi,

 

Just a quickie, I have been using Canadia bank for a good few years now but recently noticed outstanding term deposit rates with PRASAC.

 

I am researching this because there is up to 8% per year on term deposits. Does any members deal with them? Are there additional risks dealing with an MFI as opposed to a bank?

 

PRASAC seems to be the largest and leading MFI and has been in circulation a long time and has many branches and seems to have a strong client base?

 

Anybody out there who can help?

[Sheryl]

As fat as I know it's a solid MFI. You can also get 7% at banks for long term fixed deposits.

But be warned that there are now restrictions on transferring money out of the country and if you would in future want to make wire transfers out, whether to Thailand or elsewhere abroad, you will need to provide a stack of documentation to show the source of the money and they want and expect it to be from legal employment in Cambodia.

You will probably be OK if you can show the money was brought in from abroad to begin with but make sure you retain proof of that.

Withdrawing in cash no issue.

I learned all this yesterday to my dismay while trying to transfer out funds that have been in fixed deposit accounts in Camb for more than a decade, well before the new rules went into rffect.

These rules are all new.

Also note that tax is witheld on interest.

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[Scouse123]

Hi Sheryl,

 

Thanks for the information. Yes I brought the cash in from Thailand bank to bank, so it should not be a problem transferring it out hopefully! The banks down there should have records as well that the money came into the country from a foreign source, should they not?

 

Alternatively, I will withdraw it in cash and take it through bloody customs and declare it. Slightly worried now! I have never done any work in Cambodia and monies there came from UK and Thailand. The money has always been taxed on interest.

[phuketrichard]

Quote

But be warned that there are now restrictions on transferring money out of the country and if you would in future want to make wire transfers out, whether to Thailand or elsewhere abroad, you will need to provide a stack of documentation to show the source of the money and they want and expect it to be from legal employment in Cambodia.

is there a min limit that they set for no problems transferring out?

Surely if its an international transfer IN, it can be transferred out

Otherwise if you bring cash in,you take cash out

 

I have a US$ account at Prasac, tax for resident is ONLY 6% on interest earned.

https://www.prasac.com.kh/en/services/deposits/term-deposit-account

[Scouse123]

9 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

is there a min limit that they set for no problems transferring out?

Surely if its an international transfer IN, it can be transferred out

Otherwise if you bring cash in,you take cash out

 

I have a US$ account at Prasac, tax for resident is ONLY 6% on interest earned.

https://www.prasac.com.kh/en/services/deposits/term-deposit-account

 

Those are my thoughts but Sheryl did say if we can prove international transfers it should not be a problem. I ran and checked that I still had the paperwork!

 

I cannot, in reality, see them being able to stop you if you can show it coming in from outside the country.

 

This might have been put in place as they have been catching Chinese with tons of $$$$$ at the airports, both inwards and outwards!

 

I have claimed the 6% resident on tax as opposed to 14% as once upon a time thought I was going to stay there and I had a Siem Reap address. I decided after that I prefer holidays there only, and moved back to Thailand retaining the 6% tax on interest as they never asked me again!

 

Are you very satisfied with PRASAC? I was also told they had very limited ATM machines and that you cannot withdraw outside Cambodia?

 

 

 

[phuketrichard]

i am fine, as i use a small savings account with them an the term account, so its there for 12 months an no need for the atm

[Sheryl]

23 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

Hi Sheryl,

 

Thanks for the information. Yes I brought the cash in from Thailand bank to bank, so it should not be a problem transferring it out hopefully! The banks down there should have records as well that the money came into the country from a foreign source, should they not?

 

Alternatively, I will withdraw it in cash and take it through bloody customs and declare it. Slightly worried now! I have never done any work in Cambodia and monies there came from UK and Thailand. The money has always been taxed on interest.

 

1. While they should have records of how it came in that may not suffice. They seem obsessed with want a stack of additional documentation provided by the customer.  My bank has, within its own records, proof that the funds I am trying to transfer out (1) have been sitting in fixed deposit accounts there for over a decade and (2) originally came from wire deposits from various international organizations (plus of course the interest the FDs accumulated). I saw the file they have for me, it is a good 2-3 inches thick. they are still not satisfied and want a large stack (their exact words) of documentation from me as well.  I advise you to obtain, if you do not already have it, documentation showing the  inbound transfer and carefully save it.

 

From what I was told there have been a lot of problems with transfers being refused by the recipient country or leading to detailed questions the bank could not answer and this has them all very gun shy about doing wire transfers abroad, and the typical response is to want as large a stack of supporting documentation as possible. In Cambodia they always feel that the larger the stack of documents -- irrespective of what they contain -- the better.

 

2. Taking it out as cash works (as of now)  if it is an amount you are comfortable taking with you. May also be possible to use Wing/Dee Money to transfer up to $1,000 at a time to Thailand, I have heard it is but not yet verified.

 

3. Although I was told these documentation requirements pertain to any amount of money, that part came from a teller (I gradually worked my way up to the Branch Manager) and I have since heard from other expats in Camb that under 10K USD can be transferred without documentation. Not verified it though.

 

be forewarned that banking rules change fast here and without any public notification.

[Sheryl]

22 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

Those are my thoughts but Sheryl did say if we can prove international transfers it should not be a problem. I ran and checked that I still had the paperwork!

 

I cannot, in reality, see them being able to stop you if you can show it coming in from outside the country.

 

 

 

 

 

I have abundant proof of where my funds came from and so far they ARE stopping me from transferring my money out. Stay tuned.

[Scouse123]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

I have abundant proof of where my funds came from and so far they ARE stopping me from transferring my money out. Stay tuned.

 

Sheryl,

 

I am with Canadia bank.

 

I fully understand what you have said but I cannot for the life in me think what additional information they could possibly want other than the inward transfers from a Thai bank, The only other option is taking it out in cash, which is six figure sums at a time.

 

And of course, the bank so far has not said anything to me. I initially brought it into the country wire transfers all, to ANZ Royal.

 

I am currently chasing up my Thai banks for documentation of sending all such funds to Cambodia. Like you, I have been there with the banks in Cambodia a long time, just short of a decade.

 

 

[Sheryl]

The issue seems to be not that there is any regulation against sending money out of the country (at least not yet) but rather that Cambodian banks are getting increased scrutiny from foreign countries and are often suspected of money laundering etc. From what the branch manager told me they have had transfers refused and also gotten extensive questions about the source of funds from receiving institutions and this seems to have made them gun shy.

So in addition to proof that you transferred the money into Cambodia you may be asked for some supporting documentation and explanation of how you came to have it at point of origin in the first place (evidence of past employment, pension etc).

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[Scouse123]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The issue seems to be not that there is any regulation against sending money out of the country (at least not yet) but rather that Cambodian banks are getting increased scrutiny from foreign countries and are often suspected of money laundering etc. From what the branch manager told me they have had transfers refused and also gotten extensive questions about the source of funds from receiving institutions and this seems to have made them gun shy.

So in addition to proof that you transferred the money into Cambodia you may be asked for some supporting documentation and explanation of how you came to have it at point of origin in the first place (evidence of past employment, pension etc).

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Hi Sheryl,

 

Thanks for the info,

 

That makes more sense. I actually rang my bank in a panic. They just said to me would the funds be going to another account in my name, I said Yes, and they said I would have to visit in person for a large amount ( usual ) but as far as they were concerned, no issues.

 

Even in Thailand when I have made external transfers to UK, and even proving sources of funds were originally from the UK, I was asked why I wanted to send the money. When I told them ' property purchase ' they made my UK solicitors send all the details first before releasing the funds.

 

Laughable really, when the REAL MONEY LAUNDERERS, from despotic rulers of third world nations, Russian crooks and Saudi oil money and funds of dubious origins,  are all living it up in London in 90-100 plus million pound houses!

[Sheryl]

yes, laughable.

 

What is truly ridiculous is that my money has been in this bank since the 1990's and they already had more than all thei nfo they should need as to source of the funds in their own records, in fact they have morei nfo than I can begin to re-construct as to where each deposit originated since almost all were direct deposits from international organizations and the like.

 

I have been posting about this on a yahoo group for expats in Cambodia and from replies I have gotten some banks still do allow transfers without special documentation. One person told me their bank is OK for transfers under 10K, another reported having just transferred 50K through ANZ without any issue. (My transfer was twice that - but the bank had said that reducing the amount wouldn't help.

 

This is FTB and they cite NBC rules, and as they are essentially a wing of NBC they should know so I suspect that while it may take a while, other banks will start to fall in line as well. I overheard parts of the Branch Manager's conversations with the NBC International Dept so no doubt that the issue was with NBC.

 

I have over the years made a lot in interest from Cambodian banks - at least 50K - but I'm sufficiently spooked that I am going to continue to move out funds over the coming year. I've got 1 FD maturing next May and when it does that's it for me and I'll move it out.

 

On a positive note it appears my transfer was finally made after the NBC International dept reviewed the mountain of documentation. (Or this being Cambodia maybe just satisfied themselves that there was a mountain of papers attached and didn't even look through it!).

 

 

[Scouse123]

Sheryl,

 

What I have done is found the evidence to take out 5 million baht, (about $160 K ) as that was my most recent transfer in 2016. That came direct in my name in Cambodia at Canadia from my name in Thailand. I have bought some land and my TD comes to an end at the end of this month.

 

My Thai bank has suggested I do things in reverse with Cambodia, such as going to Canadia and getting a printout of incoming funds from ANZ. Then going to ANZ and getting them to trace the incoming international transfer. As usual and as a business guy, here , there and everywhere, some transactions have gone astray, although not majorly concerned as I did everything by wire transfers. There must be paper trails!!

 

As long as I can purchase the land, I am relaxed about it. Then if need be, or they get difficult, I will withdraw large sums in cash and bring it through a land border to Thailand with the relevant bank paperwork. I would then take it to the UK on the plane, again with paperwork. It is not ideal at all, but if I am faced with no options I wouldv do that.

 

As I said earlier, the bank at the moment said if I present myself, they have no problem sending out that amount by international transfer.

 

Last question, was you sending the monies to a third party or to your own name in another country? The reason I ask, is when this land bill comes in I would like to send the money to my lawyers from Cambodia , as opposed to, Cambodia-Thailand-U.K. and paying one set of fees and exchange rates as opposed to two.

[Sheryl]

I was sending to myself. Longstanding bank account in my own name at both ends of the transaction.

FTB bank.

I have heard from someone else that ANZ is easier at least at present. But I think the situation is fluid. FTB being in essence a wing of the National Bank toes the line to NBC regs, some of the private banks may not though that fact is less than reassuring .

You can also send up to $1000 per transaction out of the country via Wing.

My transfer did finally go through but only afyer much grief and copious documentation.


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[moana]

On 7/6/2019 at 8:58 AM, Sheryl said:

I have heard from someone else that ANZ

ANZ is closing shop in Cambodia, and has always been one of the worst banks there... The operation has been sold to a Japanese corporation and the name will change to Royal J Trust or some such malarkey.

 

On the transfers front - I was able to send over $30K recently from my Cambodian account to my broker's account in the US with very minimal documentation (basically a single-page printout saying I do have an account with the broker). I think using one of the more modern banks has a better chance of smoothness.

[Sheryl]

ANZ is closing shop in Cambodia, and has always been one of the worst banks there... The operation has been sold to a Japanese corporation and the name will change to Royal J Trust or some such malarkey.
 
On the transfers front - I was able to send over $30K recently from my Cambodian account to my broker's account in the US with very minimal documentation (basically a single-page printout saying I do have an account with the broker). I think using one of the more modern banks has a better chance of smoothness.

What bank was this? (That you transferred from). I have pretty well decided to change from FTB.

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[phycokiller]

9 hours ago, moana said:

ANZ is closing shop in Cambodia

pleased to hear that, not that I have anything against that bank, it just makes me feel better that western companies arent backing this country while it remains a dictatorship

[moana]

On 8/19/2019 at 5:16 AM, Sheryl said:

What bank was this?

PPCB.

ABA should also be reasonably good.