Retirement extension (800k) at Prachinburi Imm: new requirements

[Sheryl]

I did my annual extension of stay at Prachinburi today (and tomorrow, as I still need to go back...though they went ahead and issued the extension stamp today.)

 

Using the 800k method and had the funds seasoned 4 full months, in a fixed deposit account, having first verified with my IO that a fixed deposit account is acceptable.

 

I should add that the staff there know me well.

 

New requirements:

 

1. Have to have a map of where you live and they have a special form they want it printed or drawn on. Luckily I had printed out one from Google maps just in case and they agreed to paste that on but made it clear that next year I must bring it on the designated form.

 

2. Have to provide pictures of yourself in front of your house that includes something showing the house number. This one took me completely by surprise, never asked for it before. They agreed to issue the stamp on condition I come back tomorrow with the photos, which I will do. I told them there is no house number on my house, only on the mailbox, we will see if that is accepted as the mailbox is quite far from the house and this time of year foliage from trees pretty well blocks the view. We'll see what happens when I bring these by tomorrow but I will not be altogether surprised if they insist I must put up a house number on my gate to be photographed next to. (Again, they know me well and know exactly where I live, one lives not far from me, but they were in something of a tizzy about being sure to have all the required documents to show).

 

3. Had to sign two forms I never saw before. One was acknowledging that I know the penalty for overstay. The other I already forget what it is save that it seemed unnecessary and silly.

 

They were comparing this year's stack of documents with last year's and were very concerned about anything present last year and not offered this year, including the fact that i was now using a different bank book having opened the fixed account specifically for imm purposes. long discussions around this and they photocopied the other book page where I had withdrawn the 800K from, with some voiced concern that there was no notation in the bank book to show that the 800 then went into a fixed account (though the FD book clearly shows deposit of that amount on the same day).

 

Also a flurry over the fact that my FD bank book was not updated. I tried to update it, bank insisted they could not since it was a fixed account with no transactions made (or allowed) since it was opened. I did have the standard bank letter, dated today, which made it clear that the balance was unchanged as of today  and after a while they accepted this but with request to have a "full statement" io "update" next year. How I can do this I do not know as my bank is adament that they can't update a bankbook if there have been no transactions, and does not allow additional deposits to a fixed account. Nor will they pay the interest into the account, it has to come into my other savings account (this I went through when I opened the FD account).  I suspect next year I will end up having to have immigration talk to the bank on  the phone to see what the Bank can provide that they will accept...and maybe call bank HQ.

 

At no time was there any issue that I had the money and that it had been there, untouched, for more than long enough.  Rather it was the IOs being in a tizzy of anxiety over having all the right documentation, presumably to show their bosses.

 

[offset]

Maybe the account is not good for what the Immigration want, if you can get a FD where you have the interest added to then you should be able to make a small withdraw from the interest and then update the book which is what I do

 

If you cannot withdraw you money on that account you might find out that the Immigration might not accept it next year because that say the money must be available

[GeorgeCross]

6 minutes ago, offset said:

Maybe the account is not good for what the Immigration want, if you can get a FD where you have the interest added to then you should be able to make a small withdraw from the interest and then update the book which is what I do

 

If you cannot withdraw you money on that account you might find out that the Immigration might not accept it next year because that say the money must be available

 

yeah agree maybe switch to bangkok bank if you can. interest updates on the bank book and also you can ask the bank to update without a deposit (though you can add more if you wish) and an extra line just gets printed to the book.

 

one problem i can see is that if they are adamant deposit needs to be kept on the same account all year, with bangkok bank, you cannot roll the deposit to the latest 12 month rate as that requires a new account and book, on the same account it will roll at 1%.

 

 

 

 

[scubascuba3]

Maybe next time you'll find a pragmatic IO without the panic

[Sophon]

Some years ago when I used Kasikorn Bank to qualify for my retirement extension, I had the same problem that the bank was unable to make an update of the book because there were no new transactions. I suggested that they credit my account with zero Baht, which would result in a new line with current date and current balance. That solved the problem.

 

I now use Bangkok Bank who is able to just make a forced update.

 

Sophon

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Also a flurry over the fact that my FD bank book was not updated. I tried to update it, bank insisted they could not since it was a fixed account with no transactions made (or allowed) since it was opened. I did have the standard bank letter, dated today, which made it clear that the balance was unchanged as of today  and after a while they accepted this but with request to have a "full statement" io "update" next year. How I can do this I do not know as my bank is adament that they can't update a bankbook if there have been no transactions, and does not allow additional deposits to a fixed account.

Which bank is this? (Wild guess SCB).

It's the term that's fixed, not the deposit.

 

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Nor will they pay the interest into the account, it has to come into my other savings account (this I went through when I opened the FD account). 

What!

 

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

I suspect next year I will end up having to have immigration talk to the bank on  the phone to see what the Bank can provide that they will accept...and maybe call bank HQ.

Next year open an FD account with Bangkok Bank and save yourself all these problems.

[Sheryl]

6 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Which bank is this? (Wild guess SCB).

It's the term that's fixed, not the deposit.

 

What!

 

Next year open an FD account with Bangkok Bank and save yourself all these problems.

 

Not SCB. Kasikorn.

 

It's a 24 month deposit so will still be there next year.

 

And I really do nto want the hassle of having accounts at 2 different banks. Plus after all the hullaballoo about linking this FD account to my ordinary savings account (because that was what I had used the year before) I shudder to think what they'd make of yet another new account and a a different bank at that.

 

IO is fine with FD, in fact prefers it. They just wanted to see an update. I will try the "add 0" idea next year though not sure they can with an account that doesn't allow further deposits. If not, will call the HQ as I am sure there is some kind of statement they can issue that would satisfy Imm. Probably just a clueless bank staff member.

 

 

[Sophon]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Not SCB. Kasikorn.

 

It's a 24 month deposit so will still be there next year.

 

And I really do nto want the hassle of having accounts at 2 different banks. Plus after all the hullaballoo about linking this FD account to my ordinary savings account (because that was what I had used the year before) I shudder to think what they'd make of yet another new account and a a different bank at that.

 

IO is fine with FD, in fact prefers it. They just wanted to see an update. I will try the "add 0" idea next year though not sure they can with an account that doesn't allow further deposits. If not, will call the HQ as I am sure there is some kind of statement they can issue that would satisfy Imm. Probably just a clueless bank staff member.

 

 

My account was also a type that didn't allow further deposits (a special promotion type FD where the promotion period had ended).

 

It took a little convincing to get them to do the "credit zero" transaction. First they just gave me a printed account statement, which they claimed Immigration at Suan Phlu would accept (of course they would not). When I returned to the branch and suggested the "credit zero" transaction, the teller didn't think that was possible (she had never done it before). But I managed to persuade her to try, and it worked fine.   

 

Sophon

[Sheryl]

Great tip Sophon, Thanks!

 

Now if any of you could PM me the instruction to do a zero credit transaction written in Thai I'll be evermore in your debt.

[Rv Hawee]

The point is they receive so many contradictives orders that they don't really know what to do now to please the boss as just follow rules seems to be not enough.

[Puchaiyank]

For the life of me I can not comprehend why Thai Immigration tries to make the extension process so difficult...

 

Map and pictures...ridiculous...! All the wringing of hands over the money you obviously have in the bank...

 

Finger printing...what's next, DNA and urine samples?

 

They punish the many for the sins of a few!   ????

[Sheryl]

Maybe next time you'll find a pragmatic IO without the panic

 

Maybe.

 

Or maybe it will be even worse.

 

If the current trends from the top brass continue, will be the latter.

 

Expats aren't the only ones flummoxed by the vague rules and constant changes. It is hard on the rank and file Imm staff as well. And being Thailand they are terrified of being criticized by their bosses.

 

 

[pontious]

This really is becoming a PITA.

[scubascuba3]

 
Maybe.
 
Or maybe it will be even worse.
 
If the current trends from the top brass continue, will be the latter.
 
Expats aren't the only ones flummoxed by the vague rules and constant changes. It is hard n the rank and file Imm staff as well. And being Thailand they are terrified of being criticized by their bossed.

i am skeptical though, with my direct experience of them saying no leniency and blocking legit routes so they could offer me a corrupt route it makes me think it's often about them trying to steer people to the agent

[Tim K]

Looks like extension based on marriage, had to show map and photos inside/outside house with number and wife of course last time I did it.

Maybe next year they'll ask all retirees to add a young thai lady into the picture too, for medical benefits to help keep you alive as long as possible ????

show copy of her id and house book ????

Edited July 9, 2019 by Tim K

[tgeezer]

9 hours ago, Sophon said:

My account was also a type that didn't allow further deposits (a special promotion type FD where the promotion period had ended).

 

It took a little convincing to get them to do the "credit zero" transaction. First they just gave me a printed account statement, which they claimed Immigration at Suan Phlu would accept (of course they would not). When I returned to the branch and suggested the "credit zero" transaction, the teller didn't think that was possible (she had never done it before). But I managed to persuade her to try, and it worked fine.   

 

Sophon

It amazes me that Immigration think that a bank would allow a withdrawal without updating the account book. It is like asking you to update your passport to prove that you have not been outside the country since the last entry stamp! 

[gk10002000]

11 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I must bring it on the designated form.

Do they give you a form for the "map" or tell you how to download it at home and fill out?

[Sheryl]

i am skeptical though, with my direct experience of them saying no leniency and blocking legit routes so they could offer me a corrupt route it makes me think it's often about them trying to steer people to the agent

No agents in Prachinburi.



Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Sheryl]

Do they give you a form for the "map" or tell you how to download it at home and fill out?

No. But they showed me a hand drawn example and also indicated download of google map is acceptable.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Dumbastheycome]

15 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

yeah agree maybe switch to bangkok bank if you can. interest updates on the bank book and also you can ask the bank to update without a deposit (though you can add more if you wish) and an extra line just gets printed to the book.

 

one problem i can see is that if they are adamant deposit needs to be kept on the same account all year, with bangkok bank, you cannot roll the deposit to the latest 12 month rate as that requires a new account and book, on the same account it will roll at 1%.

 

 

 

You are right about that. With Bangkok Bank the only time an update shows a change or gives a current update balance during the "term" is any accrued or deducted amount of the balance. That makes it difficult to prove despite the Bank letter of confirmation if the current interest term spans the seasoning period.

I am lucky in that my local Branch Manager  Will  allow a new  term deposit at  best  current interest rate using the  same  account  number. I know that  does  not please the staff who process that because  they  miss out on a small bonus  for opening  a "new account" which is the sole reason for trying to insist that must be.

The advantage to me is that if and when I bother to chase a very marginal interest rate when the  last term expires is that  my Fixed deposit book is now many years old  with a continuous record showing a historical balance that only drops  when the accrued interest is significant enough to be withdrawn.

My IO has never had cause to question.

 

 

[billsmart]

The photos are required for an extension based on marriage, but I never heard of it being required for an extension based on retirement -- unless this was your first extension. But, of course, as we all know, all the rules and requirements are completely up in the air now and seem to vary from place to place.

[connda]

18 hours ago, Rv Hawee said:

The point is they receive so many contradictives orders

Perhaps the contradictive orders includes hassling all long-stay foreigners to the maximum degree possible in order to show them all exactly who is in charge.  

Our collective choice?  
1) Dance at the ends of the strings they pull, keep them entertained and amused; or

2) Execute your Plan B.  

Personally, if I was not married and supporting a Thai national wife, I'd be opting for the latter.  The only reason I'm personally still here is because of my marriage.  But even there I have a threshold.  

[Guderian]

19 hours ago, Sophon said:

Some years ago when I used Kasikorn Bank to qualify for my retirement extension, I had the same problem that the bank was unable to make an update of the book because there were no new transactions. I suggested that they credit my account with zero Baht, which would result in a new line with current date and current balance. That solved the problem.

 

I now use Bangkok Bank who is able to just make a forced update.

 

Sophon

Presumably you could also have just given them 100 Baht and asked them to pay it into your account and that would have worked too?

[Deerculler]

Goodluck Sheryl.

[Pib]

4 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

You are right about that. With Bangkok Bank the only time an update shows a change or gives a current update balance during the "term" is any accrued or deducted amount of the balance. That makes it difficult to prove despite the Bank letter of confirmation if the current interest term spans the seasoning period.

Bangkok Bank can do a Balance Forward transaction....fancy name for a forced update. 

 

When I was using a Bangkok Bank fixed account for my annual retirement extension of stay that what the bank branch would do.  Did if for a couple of years.  That would print the balance with today's date.  Then the teller proceeded to prepare the bank letter for immigration....that way both the letter and passbook reflected the same amount.

[The Deerhunter]

Yes, I had the two new forms to sign as you did when I renewed in late March. And yes lots of paranoia about having documentation exactly as required. They wanted me to have money in the bank as well as my letter from my Embassy. Just silly stuff. They don't know what to do but they're terrified of making a mistake so they go over the top. Home visits to interview you in your own home have never been a requirement for retirement but that's what they said they were going to do for me but they never turned up. I am now back living in my own home country as of a few days ago and I'm glad I don't have to go through all this any more because it doesn't seem to get better every year only more confusing for them and us.  I suspect that there is a lot of pressure on immigration staff from above regarding not accepting gratuities and not doing things properly, paperwork and bureaucracy  wise. All the staff in my local office know me very well and have been there for years but a big change in their attitude this year.  Very concerned about doing something wrong If in doubt they tend to err by trying to do things too much rather than too little and being criticised by their superiors. Very difficult for them and us.

Edited July 10, 2019 by The Deerhunter

[AsiaCheese]

There seem to be some Immigration officials who don't grasp the concept of a fixed deposit account, plus the fact that such accounts don't come with an ATM card.

 

"Fixed" means its interest rate will not change over the chosen deposit duration. A withdrawal before that time can be made, but you will forfeit all interest. Kasikorn came up with a new FD variant: it's also a fixed deposit, but interest is paid out monthly into a "sister" savings account of yours at the same bank. Nowhere does it say that a withdrawal cannot be made before the chosen deposit duration, but I suppose that they would then recoup all paid-out monthly interest lumps by deducting the compound amount from the withdrawn amount.

 

Technically speaking, a fixed deposit bankbook doesn't need to be "force updated" and wouldn't even require the bank statement of account, as there is no other means (such as: ATM) to withdraw from the account than to present the bankbook and having a new line for every transaction. But maybe that's a too-big mental jump to make for some people in uniforms...

[Sheryl]

The photos are required for an extension based on marriage, but I never heard of it being required for an extension based on retirement -- unless this was your first extension. But, of course, as we all know, all the rules and requirements are completely up in the air now and seem to vary from place to place.

It was my 15th extension.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

20 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

Not SCB. Kasikorn.

 

It's a 24 month deposit so will still be there next year.

 

And I really do nto want the hassle of having accounts at 2 different banks. Plus after all the hullaballoo about linking this FD account to my ordinary savings account (because that was what I had used the year before) I shudder to think what they'd make of yet another new account and a a different bank at that.

 

IO is fine with FD, in fact prefers it. They just wanted to see an update. I will try the "add 0" idea next year though not sure they can with an account that doesn't allow further deposits. If not, will call the HQ as I am sure there is some kind of statement they can issue that would satisfy Imm. Probably just a clueless bank staff member.

 

 

 

I had the same issue with a fixed deposit at CIMB I had a couple years back... Never needed to use it for Immigration, but I was thinking I could...until...

 

I discovered you can't even update their fixed deposit passbooks in their passbook update machines, at all, any time, for any reason. Their passbook machines simply don't accept fixed deposit passbooks, only those for regular savings and similar type accounts.

 

And when going into the tellers, they insisted they could not manually update the fixed deposit passbook on a day of my choosing (like the day I'm headed to Immigration), but only when there was some activity in the account like an interest credit and such.

 

In the end, it was looking to be just too much of a hassle and grief, especially with how Immigration is getting these days... So I took the money out and closed that particular account. Yeesh!!!!

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

21 hours ago, Sheryl said:

2. Have to provide pictures of yourself in front of your house that includes something showing the house number.

 

Never heard of an Immigration office wanting house photos in connection with a retirement extension.... That's certainly an oddball one!

 

BKK CW certainly doesn't request/require that.  And as for the map to home, BKK CW has wanted one for the last two years, but they seem willing to accept it in any format, hand drawn, Google Map printed, just on plain paper.