Non-O extension. Next Year Must Have Health Insurance

[petemoss]

If you want to know the true cost of being sick in Thailand, watch Kev in Thailand's latest vlog. Gives an honest breakdown of his medical costs. The medical insurance recommended by Immigration wouldn't have gone very far to meet his costs. Waste of money for serious illnesses.

 

Personally, I am self insured and could meet Kevin's costs, and more, from my rainy day fund. However, if I were to be diagnosed with cancer (again) I would be on the next plane back to the UK to receive free, world class treatment.

 

 

[Matzzon]

3 minutes ago, LomSak27 said:

Did you ever have a job? Just asking. My insurance coverage was provded by insurers in conjunction with my employment. When that is over you can for a time extend it for a time. However if living in a foreign country it will terminate at years renewal. 

Yes, of course! Doesn´t most people have a job in life? Thanks for the question, but totally unnecessary. Yes that is what I mean. An insurance like that can´t be used when travelling abroad and settling down in a foreign country. That where the planning comes in. Like you start to pay already every year, for what you need in the future. Then you do not have to complain that its to expensive when you are over 65. Sometimes you have to pay a little bit extra earlier in life for have a better life at old age.

[lamyai3]

3 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

How can you think about calling 40K baht absurdly high?

The highest outpatient costs I ever faced in Thailand ran to about a tenth of that amount, but in any event, the financial rules in place now mean that anyone could easily afford 40k of outpatient cover out of pocket if it was required, and even if they had the cover would probably prefer to pay themselves. The issue is not about the level of cover, but that it's being used to drive the premiums up, especially when the accepted insurers are limited to a panel approved by the MoPH. You're not arguing in favour of insurance, you're arguing in favour of a rort. 

[Joe Mcseismic]

34 minutes ago, fishtank said:

What a load of rot.

Not really......

[HampiK]

31 minutes ago, petemoss said:

Personally, I am self insured and could meet Kevin's costs, and more, from my rainy day fund. However, if I were to be diagnosed with cancer (again) I would be on the next plane back to the UK to receive free, world class treatment.

This is long time ago,, that I heard that UK have free world class treatment!

I hear so many horror stories about UK NHS...

[brewsterbudgen]

This is long time ago,, that I heard that UK have free world class treatment!
I hear so many horror stories about UK NHS...

Don't believe what you hear. The NHS is fantastic, particularly for serious conditions like cancer. I have insurance here, but if I were to get something serious, I would go home. Thailand is not great for palliative care.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, khaepmu said:

So what will this insurance cost the average expat per year? Any estimates. I wonder if those expats who already have government insurance and pay monthly for the privilege (which covers everything until death)will be  exempt.

Between 60 and 120k per year from what I've looked at depending on many things such as medical exam or not.  

[pmarlin]

This may be a heads up but doubt any thing is different from official government  news releases.  The insurance rules are not coming from immigration but from the Health ministry. IO's some times give wrong information as has been posted on this forum meany times.  I'll wait for a news release or something official before I even pay attention to a rumor

 

[Matzzon]

55 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

You're not arguing in favour of insurance, you're arguing in favour of a rort.

That´s how it looks to a person that wants to shift a focus of a dicussion, out of an unknown reason. The thing is to have an insurance, not the choice to pay yourself. The financial rules can not replace or be called an insurance or a guarantee. You can at any given point choose to withdraw or use your money, which makes your argument total rubbish and proven to have nothing to do with the reality. 

However, the fact is. You can not plan your life in another country that does not support, or are connected to, your health system or social security system. For that to be a realistic possibility, you must have the brain to take care about your protection. The first thing a sensible person is thinkling about when moivng abroad is a health coverage if something happens. Everything else is irresponsible, and there is no idea to start complaining after about how expensive everything is. If you can´t afford to protect yourself according to a country´s rules and regulation, which might change as they wish not as you wish, then you can not live in that country. That´s the hard fact, and no rubbish talk or excuses can run away from that. Unnecessary to nag more about this totally obvious need that irresponsible persons choosed to overlook for too many years.

Edited July 12, 2019 by Matzzon

[fishtank]

1 minute ago, Matzzon said:

That´s how it looks to a person that wants to shift a focus of a dicussion, out of an unknown reason. The thing is to have an insurance, not the choice to pay yourself. The financial rules can not replace or be called an insurance or a guarantee. You can at any given point choose to withdraw or use your money, which makes your argument total rubbish and proven to have nothing to do with the reality. 

However, the fact is. You can not plan your life in another country that does not support, or are connected to, your health system or social security system. For that to be a realistic possibility, you must have the brain to take care about your protection. The first thing a sensible person is thinkling about when moivng abroad is a health coverage if something happens. Everything else is irresponsible, and there is no idea to start complaining after about how expensive everything is. If you can´t afford to protect yourself according to a country´s rules and regulation, which might change as they wish not as you wish, then you can not live in that country. That´s the hard fact, and no rubbish talk or excuses can run away from that. Unnecessary to nag more about this totally obvious need that irresponsible persons choosed to overlook for too many years.

So you think that premiums that are 25% of the cover is good value and not a rip off?

[petemoss]

22 minutes ago, HampiK said:

This is long time ago,, that I heard that UK have free world class treatment!

I hear so many horror stories about UK NHS...

I have several members of my family working in the NHS. It's true that it is under severe stress, due to government under-funding, but manages to retain a world class service that serves the British people well.

 

I  was treated at a world class cancer centre (Christies), promptly and with cutting edge treatment. All free. Now, almost 10 years later, I remain in remission.

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, HampiK said:

With the Inpatient I agree with your comments. But with the outpatient I don't.  As most good polices already include outpatient after treatment. So the 40'000 baht is not too high, but in Thailand mostly not of use compared to the cost what you have to pay additional. It's better to have a very good Inpatient with some extras like aftertreatment cancer, dialysis included! And pay the really small amounts of outpatient by yourself.

 

I can agree with you. My main point is not the inpatient or outpatient coverage. The main point in my dicussion is that its impossible for every sensible human beeing to even considerate moving to another country and then complaining about the need of health insurance.

Better that everybody is happy about all the years they have gotten away with irresponsible behaviout instead of complaining ans wining. Health insurance is a natural choice when residing in a foreign country if your country or work does not cover that part. Anything not in line with any of those three factors are plain stupid.

[fishtank]

4 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

 Health insurance is a natural choice when residing in a foreign country if your country or work does not cover that part. Anything not in line with any of those three factors are plain stupid.

Or too old, or uninsurable, or have previous issues etc.

Plenty of reasons for not being able to get insurance.

Easy for you to gloat Mr perfect.

Edited July 12, 2019 by fishtank

[Matzzon]

3 minutes ago, fishtank said:

So you think that premiums that are 25% of the cover is good value and not a rip off?

We never talked about the premiums compared to the value of the different insurances. Why are you shifting the focus, to maybe give you a slightly better chance to come out of the discussion with your head up? Residing in a foreign country without protection is foolish and irresponsible. That´s a fact.

Regarding the value, and that the premium is 25% of the coverage, is probably in most cases BS talk. That might be if a person is over 70 years old, and have choosen to live old age life without a health insurance for too many years. That was a foolish choice to get away from a necessary thing, that the person now have to pay dealy for in a later stage in life. If you take a general and average person at the age of 45-50, which is the age you at the latest should start plan for your retirement, and security, for the later good years in life. Let´s say 50. Then the premium would be about 7-9% of the total inpatient coverage on a yearly basis. That still means, a person that are forseeing and plan their life ahead is going to get a good value insurance. People that tries to run from all things they need, because they cry averytime a dollar is spent, is going to stand with a fan full of shit.

I just hope there is not to many of that kind out there, because I would like to cling to my trust in the evolution of mankind a little bit longer.

[moogradod]

6 minutes ago, fishtank said:

Or too old, or uninsurable, or have previous issues etc.

Plenty of reasons for not being able to get insurance.

Easy for you to gloat Mr perfect.

Exactly. Many here are neglecting these aspects which might be life threatening. I hope the government is not missing these same crucial points. Besides a 400K insurance does not help in many cases nor does it even guarantee payment. Money in the bank does in both cases.

[Matzzon]

9 minutes ago, fishtank said:

Or too old, or uninsurable, or have previous issues etc.

Plenty of reasons for not being able to get insurance.

Easy for you to gloat Mr perfect.

I am not gloating. I am definately not perfect. Only chosen to not complain about my mistakes in life. Just pointing out the obvious. Make everything easy. Ask yourself. Do you need a health insurance when living in a foreign country, or do you demand that the country should pay for you as a non citizen?

There can be as many reasons as you wish. The fact is that if you do not have an insurance, or can´t afford one because of a to high premium at a too old stage in life. Then you can not consider living in a country that has this as a mandatory clause.

Thailand has come to the conclusion that they pay for too many foreigners that have accidents and get sick here and can´t pay for themselfs. They are tiered over that, and it´s a totally natural reaction. Now they are doing something about the situation, that should have been done many years ago. If your home country had the same social security system and stood in front of the same problem, they would probably act exactly the same way.

[Matzzon]

Anyway, I just stated the bloody obvious for long enough now. Not going to reply anything more on "a lot of made up at the spur of the moment excuses" for not having a health insurance.

[petemoss]

11 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Do you need a health insurance when living in a foreign country, or do you demand that the country should pay for you as a non citizen?

Neither. I self fund or return to my own country for significant medical care. Works for me.

 

13 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Thailand has come to the conclusion that they pay for too many foreigners that have accidents and get sick here and can´t pay for themselfs.

Very rarely happens, if ever.

[SammyJ]

11 hours ago, BestB said:

Yes they are introducing compulsory health insurance, with a minimum cover of 400 000 baht per year, must be OPD and IPD. In other words, you would be paying high premium for minimal cover but for those who have nothing, at least its something. Though still unsure how its going to work for those with pre existing conditions, i am afraid it might be you will have to pay for a piece of paper which in reality is worth nothing and will not pay out anything.

exactly--more and more legitimate expats are being driven out of the county, along with their pensions that were typically all spent here--totally understandable that they want to ensure "tourists" are not working, etc, but, more and more I read how friendly other local countries are, and are appreciative of the positive financial impact on the local economy.

[lamyai3]

22 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

That´s how it looks to a person that wants to shift a focus of a dicussion, out of an unknown reason. The thing is to have an insurance, not the choice to pay yourself. The financial rules can not replace or be called an insurance or a guarantee. You can at any given point choose to withdraw or use your money, which makes your argument total rubbish and proven to have nothing to do with the reality. 

Shifting and deflecting is exactly what you're contributing here, with your vague platitudes about the importance of insurance generally, combined with your unwillingness to be pinned down on anything specific. Immigration have said on the record that the financial requirements of an extension are required to cover such things as medical emergencies, hence the requirement of a residual 400k for the full year. They're as incorrect in claiming this is true as you are in denying they said it, but both of you in any event are talking out of your hats and making it up as you go along.

[marcusarelus]

You have two general kinds of health insurance.  1.  The government mandated policy which will primarily line the pockets of the insurance/agents pockets and 2.  Insurance that will actually cover something.  

 

I think the difference hinges on who will determine if your policy meets the (maybe) required standard.  Is the government or hospital or Immigration going to determine if your policy is OK? 

[Carolina Reaper]

11 hours ago, BestB said:

outpatient only cover

There is no such thing as outpatient only cover. 

[Matzzon]

22 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Shifting and deflecting is exactly what you're contributing here, with your vague platitudes about the importance of insurance generally, combined with your unwillingness to be pinned down on anything specific.

Just can´t let this one slip, I tried to restrain myself from response, but you do really ask for one. Vague? Is this real and specific enough for you? You need a health insurance in any country you choose to live your future life, and its the county´s policy that goes. In this case a totally normal requirement that everyone should already be equipped with.

 

22 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

They're as incorrect in claiming this is true as you are in denying they said it, but both of you in any event are talking out of your hats and making it up as you go along.

What have I denied that they have been saying? Please, it´s you making it up as you go along, by coming up with as many wrongs and excuses as possible for not to implement a totally natural thing that people should be thinking about without the governments help to point it out.

[Matzzon]

32 minutes ago, petemoss said:

Neither. I self fund or return to my own country for significant medical care. Works for me.

Ok, but its no insurance for any country, and thats what an insurance is all about. Hence that is what we are talking about. That it works for you, doesn´t mean that its´s going to work for the country you choose to stay in. I am sure you are aware of that you can not take every person on their word or what they personally guarantee.

 

32 minutes ago, petemoss said:

 

Very rarely happens, if ever.

That can only be a comment if you are blind to the truth, or that you "personally guarantee" that the number they have been given is made up out of fictional facts as so many others here.

[UKresonant]

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

The first thing a sensible person is thinkling about when moivng abroad is a health coverage if something happens. Everything else is irresponsible, and there is no idea to start complaining after about how expensive everything is. If you can´t afford to protect yourself according to a country´s rules and regulation, which might change as they wish not as you wish, then you can not live in that country.

Yes most likely right, could not afford to pay for the insurance which might change as they wish not as you wish (if it's the same as the O-X), and then additionally pay for coverage if something happens. "then you can not live in that country" what should be planned for then?

[mania]

12 hours ago, wimpy said:

I did my retirement extension today (Non-O) at Lampang. Was told I would likely have to have a health insurance policy when I do my extension next year (400k). They said that they have been informed the order has been drafted, but they haven't received it in writing yet.

 

I have said it a few times already but....

 

Anyone who did not see this freight train coming must be blind or not paying attention

 

[Matzzon]

6 minutes ago, UKresonant said:

Yes most likely right, could not afford to pay for the insurance which might change as they wish not as you wish (if it's the same as the O-X), and then additionally pay for coverage if something happens. "then you can not live in that country" what should be planned for then?

Nah, planning means thta you at an age of 50 years old, know if you are going to live abroad after your working days are over. That means that you cover up already at that age with a health insurance, for your future puposes. That then means you will pay about 30k baht a year for your insurance instead of 70-80k baht a year at the age of 70-75. Spreading your costs though life is always the best option, instead of standing with a bigger bill when you might have a smaller possibility to fund it. If you after that have been chosing an insurance that do not meet up to the in and out patient requirements. Yeah, then you just have been trying to get away as cheap as possible, wich will bite back at a later time in life. It always does. After all that and you can meet the totally acceptable requirements of funding or income, then there is no but. Of course you can not live in the fantasy that you can move to another country and live on a tight budget. You must always have a rather generous buffer, but that´s also something that resides within the area of planning and ordinary common sense. If the possibilities for meeting up to changes in life, then there is no future for anybody in the line of moving out of their home conutry. Then its safer to stay there and have a safer and more secure life.

[Joe Mcseismic]

1 hour ago, fishtank said:

So you think that premiums that are 25% of the cover is good value and not a rip off?

Absolutely........as long as you have your medical emergency within the first three years.

[from the home of CC]

17 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Nah, planning means thta you at an age of 50 years old, know if you are going to live abroad after your working days are over. That means that you cover up already at that age with a health insurance, for your future puposes. That then means you will pay about 30k baht a year for your insurance instead of 70-80k baht a year at the age of 70-75. Spreading your costs though life is always the best option, instead of standing with a bigger bill when you might have a smaller possibility to fund it. If you after that have been chosing an insurance that do not meet up to the in and out patient requirements. Yeah, then you just have been trying to get away as cheap as possible, wich will bite back at a later time in life. It always does. After all that and you can meet the totally acceptable requirements of funding or income, then there is no but. Of course you can not live in the fantasy that you can move to another country and live on a tight budget. You must always have a rather generous buffer, but that´s also something that resides within the area of planning and ordinary common sense. If the possibilities for meeting up to changes in life, then there is no future for anybody in the line of moving out of their home conutry. Then its safer to stay there and have a safer and more secure life.

the insurance racket is one of the biggest mafias in the world, you sound like a consigliere

[Thaidream]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

It will vary depending on age, but it would also be important to look at limits and exclusions. I would expect 30,000-40,000 baht p.a.. If it is well controlled by the government it could be a good package, although things that are obligatory rarely are.

 

I have always looked closely at daily limits for ICU or a hospital bed, where it often appears a public hospital is obligated. My nearest hospital is expensive, and a bed might be 12,000 a night, insurance offering 3000/night isn't doing me many favours. 

It Thailand wants to mandate medical insurance there are various solutions-

 

A.   The Government should mandate that a medical insurance provider in Thailand  cover everyone regardless of age and condition at a reasonable price and that the insurance can never be cancelled.  The Insurance provided for the O-X visa is a ridiculous price for a small amount of coverage and is completely unworkable and in my opinion a device merely to enrich insurance companies and their supporters/

 

B.  The Government needs to provide an option to buy into the Thai Government  medical Social Scheme at a reasonable price just as a Thai can purchase into the scheme if employed.  The price can vary with age but should be as reasonable as what a Thai citizen pays since only Thai Government hospitals  can be used.

 

If they can mandate all tourists provide 500 Baht for medical coverage which can be added to a ticket (which they are trying to implement)- they can certainly allow anyone on a long term Visa or extension to buy into the Thai Government health scheme.

 

This would provide coverage for everyone at a reasonable price and it would also increase the money in the Medical pool and help the scheme which is already underfunded.

 

As far as the OP's conversation- since he is a fluent Thai speaker and obviously been in Thailand a long time- he should know that it is common for Thais in Government  positions to provide statements on things they do not have the exact details on and even when they have it in writing often misinterpret what they are reading.

 

I can remember when the Embassy Letters were stopped- there were officials  commenting to the very end that no changes were taking place .

 

Anything a Thai in the Government says- I take with a grain of salt ( And that includes my own Government)