Expats Revolt

[dlclark97]

Don Aleman's comments may have a point but I take one notable exception.  "Tip less or none."  Tipping is a 'thank you' for service provided and has nothing to do with immigration or other agencies policies.  Tipping, even a good or great tip in Thailand is cheap enough.  Do it and be thankful there are still many who do serve you with a smile.

[1FinickyOne]

44 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

so what if the government wants us to sew stars on our shirts so we can easily be identified as foreigners? so what if the government decides we can only live in designated neighborhoods because we're a public safety risk? so what if the government broadcasts propaganada every night on the nightly news about how another foreigner has been rounded up or arrested? we still got food on the table. it's all good. just be happy. just enjoy what's left of your life. life's too short. it'll all be over soon. go back to sleep.

 

I must have missed those orders - - for me, so far, the government has not effected my life... I easily meet the requirements for visa, I love being here, love living amongst Thai people, and pretty much go day to day enjoying my life... much more than I would in any Western or Asian country.. 

 

The list of 'what if' could go on forever, but I don't foresee any of your paranoid visions coming true... if they do, I will react to them when they happen...

 

Gecks, I like you and have always enjoyed your posts in the past but the recent shows of "resentment" which sure sounds like anger and hate... worries me for you. They have meds for this stuff. Why worry about things that probably will never happen? 
Why cut your spending and enjoyment of life? It really does not make sense... 

 

And yes, if you are truly worried about those things you mention, it is paranoid. And yes, I have known holocaust survivors too. 

 

And maybe Woody Allen had a good line that you could apply to me: "You are the opposite of paranoid. You are under the delusion that people actually like you." [or something like that.]

 

Enjoy your life. Wishing you well. 

[essox essox]

On 7/14/2019 at 10:05 AM, whiteman said:

Yes we are just a blip to the powers that be.

 

when will they understand that most farangs living here, and even tourists spend a lot more money that any Thais would/will do......

[RasiMike]

3 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

I'm amazed at how many people on this forum have resigned themselves to feeling powerless to do anything about how they are being treated by the government.

C'mon Gecko, they're just embracing their 'Thainess' ????

[fulhamster]

23 hours ago, ianezy0 said:

OK, I stayed at home to eat last night and I am still waiting for an IO to call me for a free extension of stay. Maybe later!

Have you filled out your latest TM 30 ??

 

[PETERTHEEATER]

23 hours ago, Don Mega said:

Do street vendors actually put any money (taxes ?) into the govement coffers ?

Ha Hah Hah! A female street vendor featured on Thai news last year bragging that she was grossing 30k per day until forced relocation. At least she wasn't selling her wares from the back of a new Benz pickup.

[LivinLOS]

On 7/14/2019 at 3:03 AM, Don Aleman said:

Pattaya/Phuket and much of the rest of Thailand having serious Tourist/ income problems & may present an opportunity to get Immigration to ease up on new visa requirements. How ? By spending less and tightening the belt : Tip less or none - walk instead of paying for a ride - spend a night or two at home - limit spending in entertainment venues - put a few items in your frige instead of all restaurant meals. The Thai government pocketbook thru the street service people bitching is the only legal way to get them to listen & when street income drops it will be thunderous to them

Isnt that exactly what so many expats are being forced into due to the baht rates ????

[Gecko123]

54 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

I must have missed those orders - - for me, so far, the government has not effected my life... I easily meet the requirements for visa, I love being here, love living amongst Thai people, and pretty much go day to day enjoying my life... much more than I would in any Western or Asian country.. 

 

The list of 'what if' could go on forever, but I don't foresee any of your paranoid visions coming true... if they do, I will react to them when they happen...

 

Gecks, I like you and have always enjoyed your posts in the past but the recent shows of "resentment" which sure sounds like anger and hate... worries me for you. They have meds for this stuff. Why worry about things that probably will never happen? 
Why cut your spending and enjoyment of life? It really does not make sense... 

 

And yes, if you are truly worried about those things you mention, it is paranoid. And yes, I have known holocaust survivors too. 

 

And maybe Woody Allen had a good line that you could apply to me: "You are the opposite of paranoid. You are under the delusion that people actually like you." [or something like that.]

 

Enjoy your life. Wishing you well. 

Please stop trying to marginalize my point of view by throwing pop-psychology jargon at anyone who doesn't share your Prozac-induced utopian view of Thailand. (yeah, two can play that game)

 

My point obviously wasn't that the Thai government was imminently planning to intern foreigners in concerntration camps. The point is that your civil liberties have been infringed upon, and that many times in the past, this has been done on an incremental basis.

 

What civil liberties have been infringed upon? You have to report your address every 90 days. Your landlord has to confirm your return to your home address every time you leave the country or stay overnight in another province. You can't take funds out of your bank account either fully or partially on a year round basis. You're biometric and fingerprint data is being collected as a condition of entering the country. All of these can be viewed as infringements of civil rights, including privacy.

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by Gecko123
added 2nd and 3rd paragraphs

[thaiguzzi]

2 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

I'm sure the 1000s of families, that survive off the earnings of sons, daughters, mothers and fathers who work in those tourist areas, care a great deal...

Ok ok i worded that a bit wrong...

[Jaxxper]

I think the impact would not be seen if Expats did all of these things. They typically know how to items at a reasonable rate anyway through time and experience. Tourists....... well they don't travel across the world to sit in hotel rooms and eat in, they come away to enjoy everything there is to enjoy in a foreign land. Must say , I never used to check the exchange rates when I used to go on my holidays. Expat retirees and tourists are two different beasts in my opinion.

[Brer]

The last year or two I have come across more and more whinging about living in the LOS.

Sure we are burdened with bureaucracy that it is so painful it’s like a red hot poker full time up your arse.

Geez I get really cranky about you can’t do this, or you need something totally unnecessary to satisfy some bureaucratic uniform.

Then there is baht when I first invaded these shores I was getting 33 baht to the Oz dollar for a period and now it’s only 21ish.

Does it stop me spending or enjoying myself, no way.

Absolutely no way am I moving on, I made a choice to live here.

If you can’t afford it, its tough luck you didn’t do enough before you got here. An expat revolt is a joke and would have zero effect on the decisions of sections of the Thai government IMHO.

 

[statman78]

Is Thailand a perfect place?  Of course not, no place is, but I choose to live here with my Thai wife.  Here in the Chiang Rai area I have a number of expat and Thai friends.  There are Thais that resent that I am here.  I just ignore them.  I have no issue with the immigration here in Chiang Rai or in Mae Sai.  I found them professional and helpful as I changed my TV to a non-imm O then did a retirement extension.  I worked for 50 years and now I am enjoying life.  I have a nice home and can afford to eat out and travel if I want.  My quality of life is much better here than if I would have retired in the US.  Are there issues, yes.  Smoke in the spring, crazy drivers and a few people who would like to borrow some money which they never get.  When I head to Bangkok to visit friends and ex-colleagues we have fun because we know which places to avoid.  I will not change the way I do things.  

[PatOngo]

1 hour ago, essox essox said:

when will they understand that most farangs living here, and even tourists spend a lot more money that any Thais would/will do......

And what color is your Benz then?

[Gecko123]

3 hours ago, kenk24 said:

Your ideas of cutting your spending in half or more sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face... 

Not at all, Ken.

 

I'm just finding a more minimalist, more environmentally friendly, less consumption orientated way to enjoy myself.

 

You know, the peaceful, idyllic, stay-at-home, farm-and-garden lifestyle which most of the people in a typical village have embraced for centuries? You know, the sustainable (พอเพียง) lifestyle and humble attitude towards life which the King and the government have championed for many decades? The kind of lifestyle which reduces one's carbon footprint and helps the Thai people reduce global warming? The kind of lifestyle which is in tune with my rural community and helps dampen class resentments between the haves and the have nots?

 

I think I'm helping Thailand more than an expat who drives around all over the place in an SUV, jets around in an airplane, and wants to eat only the largest lobster or river shrimps. You know, the guy who equates consumption with self-worth and happiness? The guy whose internal monologue consists of just one word: consume, consume, consume?

 

It is the jackfruit seed roasting, banana blossom harvesting, vegetable growing, mango and banana drying, bamboo shoot eating, wild flower gathering, beetle gathering, chicken raising, frog-spearing, bicycle riding farang who deserves to be celebrated, not the other way around, don't you think?

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by Gecko123

[Suradit69]

A small number of skint barstool foreigners and sex tourists fomenting a "revolt."  Yes I'm sure any government would rush to change things to placate them(and yes, that is sarcasm) ... or maybe those foreigners would be shown the nearest exit. Actually foreigners promoting such a thing would attract the interest of the police in many countries.

 

Some of the recent changes instigated by changes at a few embassies are annoying, but they hardly merit a boycott of people selling food or providing transport who are struggling to earn a minimal income and who will never be able to afford a holiday abroad or to have a comfortable retirement.

 

i was suppose to have baht 800,000 in the bank or a provable income of baht 65,000 a month to get an extension in the past and that's not changed. The process has changed a bit thanks to my embassy, but not significantly.

 

i know this rattles a lot of cages, but if you don't like it here, leave. I would if I was as unhappy as many of the chronic whiners are (and who are a small minority of all foreigners) .

 

im surprised TV is comfortable promoting a " revolt" or, more accurately, a boycott.

 

 

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

12 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Not at all, Ken.

 

I'm just finding a more minimalist, more environmentally friendly, less consumption orientated way to enjoy myself.

 

You know, the peaceful, idyllic, stay-at-home, farm-and-garden lifestyle which most of the people in a typical village have embraced for centuries? You know, the sustainable (พอเพียง) lifestyle and humble attitude towards life which the King and the government have championed for many decades? The kind of lifestyle which reduces one's carbon footprint and helps the Thai people reduce global warming? The kind of lifestyle which is in tune with my rural community and helps dampen class resentments between the haves and the have nots?

 

I think I'm helping Thailand more than an expat who drives around all over the place in an SUV, jets around in an airplane, and wants to eat only the largest lobster or river shrimps. You know, the guy who equates consumption with self-worth and happiness? The guy whose internal monologue consists of just one word: consume, consume, consume?

 

It is the jackfruit seed roasting, banana blossom harvesting, vegetable growing, mango and banana drying, bamboo shoot eating, wild flower gathering, beetle gathering, chicken raising, frog-spearing, bicycle riding farang who deserves to be celebrated, not the other way around, don't you think?

 

yes... ok - good for you... that sounds much nicer than the way it seemed to come across - - I am sure it was the holocaust predictions that threw me off course. 

[connda]

Better idea OP.  Have a Plan B.  Have a threshold for Thai stupidity.  When you've finally had enough?  Execute Plan B.  There are numerous places in Asia that now are like Thailand 20 or 30+ years ago.  So, these places don't have the same 'infrastructure.'  But they also don't have the same downsides.  So venture a change of pace in a different locale: friendlier immigration policies, cleaner beaches, cheaper prices.

[Thaidream]

2 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

'm not filled with hatred. I am filled with resentment about how immigration and the government has demonized foreigners as an undesirable criminal underclass. I'm well aware of my options. I can: (a) stick my tail between my legs, and grin and bear it; (b) leave, or (c) protest how I am being treated by using one of the few tools at my disposal.

Pretty well sums up how many of us feel.  The average Thai person bears no animosity towards me or do I to them.  Most of them do not understand our plight.

 

I might add that the 3 largest English speaking Embassies have also turned their backs on their citizens and as such they are abetting any xenophobic feelings that exist.  Instead of acting in a diplomatic manner and negotiating a win-win solution- they refused to support their own citizens 

 

While we as individuals have no real power except by voting with our feet, our governments certainly could  make their voices heard . The problem is they don't care and if our own governments don't care=  the Thai power structure sees this as tacit permission to carry on.

 

IMHO- many of us are already cutting back due to the exchange rate issues.  I figured out the other day that in 5 years- I have 'lost' almost 1 million Baht in purchasing power due to the declining US Dollar.  Luckily,  I  have been able to live well- but when I  consider  purchases- I now consider the price, the current exchange and potential future exchange. I have out purchases of major items off,  Already, many of the retirement extension people are switching to the marriage extension for economic reasons.  No one has unlimited funds unless wealthy.

 

I'm not doing it to send a message- but when enough people simply do it as a matter of course it has an affect on business.

 

There is also a point , if currencies continue to go downward- where each person will face  real stress. It will affect each budget  differently but  it will affect everyone- those on Elite; retirement; marriage etc./

 

The Government will only see the value of the expat when enough people leave or decline to retire in Thailand and social media picks up the trend.  At the same time, if the Chinese and/or Indians fail to come and spend- another message will be sent.

 

IMO, the Thai people are getting restless. Some that I have spoken to are extremely worried about their livelihood and those in the tourist industry are in for a shock.  There is no doubt in my mind that a day of reckoning is coming sooner than later.

[Los Luver]

We have to admit the reality :

People who live in guesthouses/rented cheap condos, eating street food...... have the same power like those Thais street vendors.....

People who have impact on the system, in the whole world, are people with huge capitals, or at least who contribute in tax system.

When you eat street tax free food, stay in guesthouse that never reports the guests in other words never pays taxes, your power is 0,00.....

[Snow Leopard]

On 7/14/2019 at 6:08 AM, cornishcarlos said:

I don't think anyone in government gives a <deleted> about the street vendors.. Their off shore accounts will be topping up nicely with all the mega projects being signed off before any checks and balances are done. They will then disappear overseas and live a life of exile luxury, it's been done already by the great red ones...

100% correct

[remorhaz]

Nobody in government and certainly nobody on the street even understands why the economy and tourist numbers are dropping.  Talk to the average Thai and he'd say "bad fortune" or such even as he just finished ripping off a tourist who just openly vowed never to come again.  

[Gecko123]

26 minutes ago, remorhaz said:

Nobody in government and certainly nobody on the street even understands why the economy and tourist numbers are dropping.  Talk to the average Thai and he'd say "bad fortune" or such even as he just finished ripping off a tourist who just openly vowed never to come again.  

That's why when the subject of immigration and tourism comes up, you have to gently make comments like 'doesn't make me want to spend money', doesn't make me want to go anywhere, doesn't make me feel welcome.' Trust me, Thais aren't stupid, they'll catch on fast.

[Gecko123]

2 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

A small number of skint barstool foreigners and sex tourists fomenting a "revolt."

I'm amused that you think anyone with a complaint about immigration policy must be a "skint barstool sex tourist."

 

2 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

im surprised TV is comfortable promoting a " revolt" or, more accurately, a boycott.

TVF is doing nothing of the sort. They are allowing an open discussion about whether a spending strike would be effective in influencing the government's immigration policies.

[rumak]

3 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

6 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

I'm sure the 1000s of families, that survive off the earnings of sons, daughters, mothers and fathers who work in those tourist areas, care a great deal...

Ok ok i worded that a bit wrong...

Mai pen rai .   I am sure you mean well and that in some small way these people must have touched you.

And I am pretty sure that you have touched them as well !        

????     ALERT:   HUMOR !

Edited July 15, 2019 by rumak

[myjawe]

And Thaivisa will help us or sure !

 

 

[superal]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Pretty well sums up how many of us feel.  The average Thai person bears no animosity towards me or do I to them.  Most of them do not understand our plight.

 

I might add that the 3 largest English speaking Embassies have also turned their backs on their citizens and as such they are abetting any xenophobic feelings that exist.  Instead of acting in a diplomatic manner and negotiating a win-win solution- they refused to support their own citizens 

 

While we as individuals have no real power except by voting with our feet, our governments certainly could  make their voices heard . The problem is they don't care and if our own governments don't care=  the Thai power structure sees this as tacit permission to carry on.

 

IMHO- many of us are already cutting back due to the exchange rate issues.  I figured out the other day that in 5 years- I have 'lost' almost 1 million Baht in purchasing power due to the declining US Dollar.  Luckily,  I  have been able to live well- but when I  consider  purchases- I now consider the price, the current exchange and potential future exchange. I have out purchases of major items off,  Already, many of the retirement extension people are switching to the marriage extension for economic reasons.  No one has unlimited funds unless wealthy.

 

I'm not doing it to send a message- but when enough people simply do it as a matter of course it has an affect on business.

 

There is also a point , if currencies continue to go downward- where each person will face  real stress. It will affect each budget  differently but  it will affect everyone- those on Elite; retirement; marriage etc./

 

The Government will only see the value of the expat when enough people leave or decline to retire in Thailand and social media picks up the trend.  At the same time, if the Chinese and/or Indians fail to come and spend- another message will be sent.

 

IMO, the Thai people are getting restless. Some that I have spoken to are extremely worried about their livelihood and those in the tourist industry are in for a shock.  There is no doubt in my mind that a day of reckoning is coming sooner than later.

As copied from Wikipedia , duties of an Ambassador . 

 

 

Protect citizens[edit]

Due to the advent of modern technologies, today's world is a much smaller place in relative terms. With this in mind, it is considered important that the nations of the world have at least a small staff living in foreign capitals in order to aid travelers and visitors from their home nation. As an officer of the foreign service, an ambassador is expected to protect the citizens of their home country in the host country.^[5][4] 

 

 

Well we do not seem to get any aid from our ambassador . We are on our own without a voice to express our thoughts and opinions . I seem to recall a few years ago a prominent figure in Thailand was not happy with the state of the country and wanted to turn the clock back 50 years to regain the traditional Thai culture and way of living . Also to reduce the amount of foreigners residing in his country . I kind of understand that if the remarks were made against expats of poor behavior but for the people who make a difference by way of contribution to their Thai family , I think need recognition , respect and consideration to be allowed certain benefits e.g. treatment at government hospitals .  

Maybe he is getting his way .

 

 

 

 

[geisha]

On a larger scale the op makes sense. It’s happened all over the world, trade drops, tourist numbers dwindle enough to make the authorities sit up. Only then will something be done to attract more tourists. I don’t think it would help the expat situation though.

[Blue bruce]

If their golden egg of tourism suddenly starts to shrink as noted on another

Forum they make start to take notice. 

[emptypockets]

8 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

Not at all, Ken.

 

I'm just finding a more minimalist, more environmentally friendly, less consumption orientated way to enjoy myself.

 

You know, the peaceful, idyllic, stay-at-home, farm-and-garden lifestyle which most of the people in a typical village have embraced for centuries? You know, the sustainable (พอเพียง) lifestyle and humble attitude towards life which the King and the government have championed for many decades? The kind of lifestyle which reduces one's carbon footprint and helps the Thai people reduce global warming? The kind of lifestyle which is in tune with my rural community and helps dampen class resentments between the haves and the have nots?

 

I think I'm helping Thailand more than an expat who drives around all over the place in an SUV, jets around in an airplane, and wants to eat only the largest lobster or river shrimps. You know, the guy who equates consumption with self-worth and happiness? The guy whose internal monologue consists of just one word: consume, consume, consume?

 

It is the jackfruit seed roasting, banana blossom harvesting, vegetable growing, mango and banana drying, bamboo shoot eating, wild flower gathering, beetle gathering, chicken raising, frog-spearing, bicycle riding farang who deserves to be celebrated, not the other way around, don't you think?

 

Can't get the embassy letter huh? 

[rumak]

3 hours ago, superal said:

While we as individuals have no real power except by voting with our feet, our governments certainly could  make their voices heard . The problem is they don't care and if our own governments don't care=  the Thai power structure sees this as tacit permission to carry on.

 

IMHO- many of us are already cutting back due to the exchange rate issues.  I figured out the other day that in 5 years- I have 'lost' almost 1 million Baht in purchasing power due to the declining US Dollar. 

All in all a pretty simple but I think good assessment of the changing world.  Though personally I felt 30 years ago that my govt didn't give a damn about its "citizens".   The words "to protect and serve"  might just be the longest running con game of all.  And every election the catchword is CHANGE.   What a joke, but one that the masses keep falling for.   

Having said that, I am not surprised that issues arise in Thailand as in every other country.  After all, we are not making the rules and we are the ones that must follow them.  Might is right.  My strategy  has always been to find a way to survive without being a slave and to hopefully dodge the frustrations and BS that are part of every day life.  In every country !   I have certainly had my bumps and learning experiences but must say that Thailand still has been a blessing when compared to the alternatives.  I understand that for younger expats or those with financial issues with Thailand's requirements, other options might be needed.  I live as cheaply now as I ever have ,  and have all i need.  

The baht has not risen.... it is the fiat currencies where money is printed like toilet paper that has finally begun to affect the exchange rates.   Finally.   When i first came here the baht was "pegged" to the dollar at 25.     And as a reference:  at that time a bowl of noodles in CM cost 10 baht .   And a McDonald's big mac in the states was under a dollar.     Times change