UK PM Johnson tells EU: ditch backstop or face no-deal Brexit

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

But who wasted that time and opportunity?

 

Teresa May who was a Remainer and did not have the feelings and desire to leave the EU, who scuppered every opportunity to leave the EU for 3 years.

Too true Bill, Boris refuses to go to Brussels with his begging bowl like T May, his attitude now if they don't want a no deal and want some of our cash they can come knocking on our door.

[billd766]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

Not sure what you are trying to say Bill, do you think that time or giving up the job excuses his statements.

The problem is that that when a Minister changes or is changed policies also change and people do as well.

 

As an example, who would have thought the referendum would cause so many problems in the UK where friends fall out with each other, sometimes families are split, the UK is divided into Leave and Remain camps. and as for TVF nowadays you need a steel helmet and a stab proof flak jacket just to make a post.

 

Everybody is entitled to change their minds any time they wish about anything but nowadays I keep hearing traitor being hurled as well, especially about Teresa May and in a smaller way about David Cameron and Boris

Johnson,

 

There is a lot of bad feeling, I try not to use the word "hatred" about Jeremy Corbyn going around and TBH it is not fair to any of them.

 

 

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

Bit like a carry on film,regardless.

 

The European Union will refuse to talk trade with Prime Minister Boris Johnson until the UK gives Brussels the £39bn divorce bill. The stark warning came from one of Emmanuel Macron’s strongest allies and former French EU minister Nathalie Loiseau. Speaking to Sky News’ Sophy Ridge, Ms Loiseau confirmed that there would be no discussion on a future trade relationship until the divorce bill, citizens rights and the Irish border are solved.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1158818/Emmanuel-Macron-Boris-Johnson-Brexit-deal-trade-EU

 

Now that I can understand, though it is not as funny as the worst Carry On film.

[SheungWan]

"The Withdrawal Agreement that May struck in November with the EU says the United Kingdom will remain in a customs union "unless and until" alternative arrangements are found to avoid a hard border."
 
It is the intention of the UK to put an EU external border across the island of Ireland but the brexiteers do not like the idea of the EU having control of their own border. Who does that make sense to.
If the brexiteers idea of an open border is to be implemented between the north and south of Ireland, why shouldn't the same arrangement exist across all UK-EU borders. Wouldn't the EU be obliged to offer the same arrangement to all third countries on an EU external border.
Time for Johnson to face reality.

None of the Brexiteers anticipated that the problem border with the EU was to the West. They talk about borders but they wish this one didn't exist. A blind spot.

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[Scott]

Off-topic, troll posts and replies reported and removed.  

[Nigel Garvie]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

The problem is that that when a Minister changes or is changed policies also change and people do as well.

  As an example, who would have thought the referendum would cause so many problems in the UK where friends fall out with each other, sometimes families are split, the UK is divided into Leave and Remain camps. and as for TVF nowadays you need a steel helmet and a stab proof flak jacket just to make a post.

  Everybody is entitled to change their minds any time they wish about anything but nowadays I keep hearing traitor being hurled as well, especially about Teresa May and in a smaller way about David Cameron and Boris

Johnson,

There is a lot of bad feeling, I try not to use the word "hatred" about Jeremy Corbyn going around and TBH it is not fair to any of them.

Now that I can understand, though it is not as funny as the worst Carry On film.

I'm sure you are a leaver, but (Sorry to use the "But" word just my perspective) this makes an excellent post when you say  "and TBH it is not fair to any of them". And also the friends and families falling apart bit. Brexit will be remembered as a sad tragedy whatever side you are on, and whatever the outcome. Triumphalism on either side when the coherence of our society has been destroyed, will be ill placed. 

Teresa May, David Cameron, Boris Johnson, Jeremy Corbyn, and even the conman Farage, are not traitors, only people consumed with anger and blinded by ignorance would think that. However each of them are - in their different (Largely self serving) ways- quite supremely unfit to serve as leader of this, or indeed any other nation. What the hell has gone wrong with us that these people are all that we have to chose from. However they are not traitors - that is idiotic hyperbole.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Nigel Garvie
spelling

[citybiker]

There is a narrow minded view on the issue, the UK is focused on trade without giving any consideration to identity.
Currently the nationalists in NI see an acceptable situation where they can live in NI effectively as Irish citizens with Irish passports. Any change to that arrangement and it is almost certain there will be a call for a referendum.
The Single Market Act puts a legal obligation on the EU to protect the single market, something else Boris would rather ignore.

With the DUP & it's C&S arrangement im sure identity isn't forgotten.

Bearing mind, the DUP has held the Tories to the fire & full credit to them, they've been consistent from day one. The Tories under May was full blown compromise despite Mays faux red lines.

Boris is different leader & kettle of fish, along with Dominic Rabb Brussels better get it's negotiating head on or Germany's BGA will demand EU heads to roll. Simply sitting back & refusing to renegotiate is an unwise tactic.

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[baboon]

16 minutes ago, citybiker said:

With the DUP & it's C&S arrangement im sure identity isn't forgotten.

Bearing mind, the DUP has held the Tories to the fire & full credit to them, they've been consistent from day one. The Tories under May was full blown compromise despite Mays faux red lines.

Boris is different leader & kettle of fish, along with Dominic Rabb Brussels better get it's negotiating head on or Germany's BGA will demand EU heads to roll. Simply sitting back & refusing to renegotiate is an unwise tactic.

Sent from my SM-T555 using Tapatalk
 

No Deal it is, then. Why would the EU be interested in saving the UK's CON party's skin? This is what it is all about when said and done.

They held the referendum. 

They promised to deliver.

They didn't. 

They are now tearing themselves apart because of it as they don't know what they want.

They own this mess.

[citybiker]

No Deal it is, then. Why would the EU be interested in saving the UK's CON party's skin? This is what it is all about when said and done.
They held the referendum. 
They promised to deliver.
They didn't. 
They are now tearing themselves apart because of it as they don't know what they want.
They own this mess.

No deal is very highly likely however still avoidable, May & Barnier have failed, so far. An agreed extension until 31 Oct legally runs out as per A50.

The DUP could quite easily collapse the Government however IIRC the C&S is with the party not the leader, I believe the relationship with Boris & DUP is far better than May (hardly difficult to achieve).

Boris has made it clear, he's not visiting EU country leaders Merkel, Macron et al unless they reopen the WA, the PM has also made it clear the current WA is dead.....which he does have a mandate for as the HoC rejected it 3 times.

It now appears the blame game is truely alive and well & the EU being stubbornly obstinate refusing to renegotiate just shows Brussels autocratic arrogant at it's finest.

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[baboon]

3 minutes ago, citybiker said:

No deal is very highly likely however still avoidable, May & Barnier have failed, so far. An agreed extension until 31 Oct legally runs out as per A50.

The DUP could quite easily collapse the Government however IIRC the C&S is with the party not the leader, I believe the relationship with Boris & DUP is far better than May (hardly difficult to achieve).

Boris has made it clear, he's not visiting EU country leaders Merkel, Macron et al unless they reopen the WA, the PM has also made it clear the current WA is dead.....which he does have a mandate for as the HoC rejected it 3 times.

It now appears the blame game is truely alive and well & the EU being stubbornly obstinate refusing to renegotiate just shows Brussels autocratic arrogant at it's finest.

Sent from my SM-T555 using Tapatalk
 

Fine. Just as long as you recognise the Tories own Brexit as far as the UK is concerned. 

[citybiker]

Fine. Just as long as you recognise the Tories own Brexit as far as the UK is concerned. 

As Parliament voted in 'majority' for A50 Brexit is collective responsibility.

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[puipuitom]

On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 8:43 PM, bomber said:

spain/bulgaria/portugal/latvia are barely aware the UK is leaving,if/when they do life wont change,despite what the bulldog thinks

In Spain and Portugal be sure they are aware: the British pensinario's have a lot less to spend.

[puipuitom]

14 hours ago, billd766 said:

You only want to see Eire's satisfaction. What about the satisfaction of Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, or doesn't that matter to you?

Clear enough.

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, SheungWan said:

None of the Brexiteers anticipated that the problem border with the EU was to the West. They talk about borders but they wish this one didn't exist. A blind spot.

And the border between Gibraltar and Spain ? 

I haven't read one syllable about that. 

[sunnyboy2018]

On 7/28/2019 at 1:14 AM, fishtank said:

It was the British who wanted the backstop in the first place.

Plonker Boris don't seem to understand this.

If he and his muppets had voted for the deal months ago UK would be out by now.

No we would still be in effectively. 

[aright]

29 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

In Spain and Portugal be sure they are aware: the British pensinario's have a lot less to spend.

The UK is a main export market for Spanish and Portuguese wine, fruit and vegetables. Their citizens will also  be very aware of how much less they have to spend when we buy our greengrocery and plonk else where. Where would you recommend they find another large customer on their doorstep? 

[sunnyboy2018]

4 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

I'm sure you are a leaver, but (Sorry to use the "But" word just my perspective) this makes an excellent post when you say  "and TBH it is not fair to any of them". And also the friends and families falling apart bit. Brexit will be remembered as a sad tragedy whatever side you are on, and whatever the outcome. Triumphalism on either side when the coherence of our society has been destroyed, will be ill placed. 

Teresa May, David Cameron, Boris Johnson, Jeremy Corbyn, and even the conman Farage, are not traitors, only people consumed with anger and blinded by ignorance would think that. However each of them are - in their different (Largely self serving) ways- quite supremely unfit to serve as leader of this, or indeed any other nation. What the hell has gone wrong with us that these people are all that we have to chose from. However they are not traitors - that is idiotic hyperbole.

On the contrary Brexit will lead to a reformed,  sleeker EU. It is currently not fit for purpose and was foisted on people without a vote. Brexit did not create a divided Britain nor did Trump divide America.  The divisions were there but the majority of people were being ignored by the liberal  marxist influenced power elite. Brexit and Trump gave people a chance to demonstrate their dissatisfaction with extremists values becoming the norm....especially the growth of victimhood, PC extremism, Judaphobia, Identify politics and the dismissal of the working and middle classes fears and concerns

[sunnyboy2018]

On 7/28/2019 at 3:27 AM, vogie said:

So that makes it ok for other nations to suffer because they are suffering less than the UK, I'm sure there is some kind of logic in there somewhere, but for the life in me, I just don't see it.

Two wars with German Autocracy and a 100 years war with France. Whats not to see?

[puipuitom]

British pound.. up to one ounce...

 

Just think about £288,9 Bn exports TO the EU in 2018 , now worth - 1,45 % = £ 4,189 Bn pounds less

Imports FROM the EU to UK: £ 353,0 now +1,45 higher = £ 5,118 Bn pound more expensive.

A difference of £ 9,3 BILLION pounds.. in ONE day… quite more than the UK net contribution to the EU per YEAR. ( see 

Statistics on UK-EU trade - Commons Library briefing - UK Parliament ) 

This is ONLY for EU transactions. With an export of £ 345,1 to non-EU and imports £ 312,1 Bn could be the UK lost again a £ 8018 Bn.

Over two years of UK contribution to the EU... in just ONE DAY evaporated. 

Edited July 29, 2019 by puipuitom

[bomber]

17 minutes ago, aright said:

The UK is a main export market for Spanish and Portuguese wine, fruit and vegetables. Their citizens will also  be very aware of how much less they have to spend when we buy our greengrocery and plonk else where. Where would you recommend they find another large customer on their doorstep? 

barely any portuguese wine in the UK,i looked in asda and tesco a while back and couldnt find any,i cannot speak about other supermarkets,spanish is widely available,after brexit wine will be a lot more expensive so they will be hit but so will the UK consumer,its no win for both parties,pretty much the same as trumps idiotic policies,the wine sellers will struggle for other markets for the simple reason nearly all countries in the EU produce mountains of it,north and south america,south africa,north africa,turkey,NZ,Aussie like wise,thats most of the planet,good thing is it keeps it nice and cheap for those lucky enough to live in the EU,none of them sovereign UK taxes and duty to inflate the price ???? i'll drink to that ????

[bomber]

3 hours ago, citybiker said:

No deal is very highly likely however still avoidable, May & Barnier have failed, so far. An agreed extension until 31 Oct legally runs out as per A50.

The DUP could quite easily collapse the Government however IIRC the C&S is with the party not the leader, I believe the relationship with Boris & DUP is far better than May (hardly difficult to achieve).

Boris has made it clear, he's not visiting EU country leaders Merkel, Macron et al unless they reopen the WA, the PM has also made it clear the current WA is dead.....which he does have a mandate for as the HoC rejected it 3 times.

It now appears the blame game is truely alive and well & the EU being stubbornly obstinate refusing to renegotiate just shows Brussels autocratic arrogant at it's finest.

Sent from my SM-T555 using Tapatalk
 

the deal was decent and boris stated at the time it only needed tweaking,didnt he not vote for it at the 2nd or 3rd attempt? its the same deal he now says is dead,so once again he swings one way then the other,shows he is just all hot air,i actually think he will be no better than may when it comes to the nitty gritty,put it this way he would be hapy if all of a sudden mays deal went through parliament,it would give a huge chance of winning the next GE

[aright]

21 minutes ago, bomber said:

barely any portuguese wine in the UK,i looked in asda and tesco a while back and couldnt find any,i cannot speak about other supermarkets,spanish is widely available,after brexit wine will be a lot more expensive so they will be hit but so will the UK consumer,its no win for both parties,pretty much the same as trumps idiotic policies,the wine sellers will struggle for other markets for the simple reason nearly all countries in the EU produce mountains of it,north and south america,south africa,north africa,turkey,NZ,Aussie like wise,thats most of the planet,good thing is it keeps it nice and cheap for those lucky enough to live in the EU,none of them sovereign UK taxes and duty to inflate the price ???? i'll drink to that ????

It's not surprising there isn't too much Portuguese  wine in the UK.....its poor quality, however at the end of 2017 their Port exports were almost a £1 billion...not insignificant for a small country. Australia make a very good Port.

The fruit and vegetable sector is however much larger and if you look around the major supermarkets they sell greengrocery from around the world at very competitive prices so the question remains "Where would you recommend they find another large customer on their doorstep?" or are you saying Spain and Portugal don't care about that business. If so show me the evidence.

[bomber]

29 minutes ago, aright said:

It's not surprising there isn't too much Portuguese  wine in the UK.....its poor quality, however at the end of 2017 their Port exports were almost a £1 billion...not insignificant for a small country. Australia make a very good Port.

The fruit and vegetable sector is however much larger and if you look around the major supermarkets they sell greengrocery from around the world at very competitive prices so the question remains "Where would you recommend they find another large customer on their doorstep?" or are you saying Spain and Portugal don't care about that business. If so show me the evidence.

to be honest i dont really care about cabbages and carrots in spain and portugal,its a trivial matter in the bigger picture,they will be too expensive for poor brits once the pound crashes and probable tariffs enforced,i find it sad we ever needed to import them in the first place but thats another story,brexit wasnt about farmers in spain it was about how we were going to be great again,not being able to grow a cabbage is pretty poor,btw who do you think will replace nissan/toyota/vauxhall/honda?  as ive said many times on here we will be a farming utopia,back to the year zero ????????

[aright]

14 minutes ago, bomber said:

to be honest i dont really care about cabbages and carrots in spain and portugal,its a trivial matter in the bigger picture,they will be too expensive for poor brits once the pound crashes and probable tariffs enforced,i find it sad we ever needed to import them in the first place but thats another story,brexit wasnt about farmers in spain it was about how we were going to be great again,not being able to grow a cabbage is pretty poor,btw who do you think will replace nissan/toyota/vauxhall/honda?  as ive said many times on here we will be a farming utopia,back to the year zero ????????

You need to think more broadly and not dismiss agriculture as trivial. Vegetables, fruits and cereals are the principle crops in Spain and account for three quarters of agricultural production. Spain is one of the largest producers of wine in the world and to produce wine you must grow grapes. Spain, Germany and France have very large forestry exports. Cabbages and carrots maybe a trivial matter to you but to those countries with significant agricultural exports it is a matter of great importance. Moving your argument from greengrocery and wine in the EU to the separate issue of cars in the UK doesn't respond to the needs of the EU farmer and is not what we are talking about.

[bomber]

8 minutes ago, aright said:

You need to think more broadly and not dismiss agriculture as trivial. Vegetables, fruits and cereals are the principle crops in Spain and account for three quarters of agricultural production. Spain is one of the largest producers of wine in the world and to produce wine you must grow grapes. Spain, Germany and France have very large forestry exports. Cabbages and carrots maybe a trivial matter to you but to those countries with significant agricultural exports it is a matter of great importance. Moving your argument from greengrocery and wine in the EU to the separate issue of cars in the UK doesn't respond to the needs of the EU farmer and is not what we are talking about.

i just dont see how a carrot grown in a spanish field can be an important factor in whether brexit goes ahead or doesnt,it was up to brexiteers to prove we would be better off out the EU,to say we MIGHT not buy their carrots is hardly going to turn heads,the separate issue of cars is important there are 100,000 well paid jobs riding on it in the UK,much more important than a spanish farmers crop of carrots,again your clutching at straws,mother nature could write off the farmers crops and they wont get out the ground never mind cross the channel,you really are struggling 

[nkg]

10 minutes ago, bomber said:

i just dont see how a carrot grown in a spanish field can be an important factor in whether brexit goes ahead or doesnt,it was up to brexiteers to prove we would be better off out the EU,to say we MIGHT not buy their carrots is hardly going to turn heads,the separate issue of cars is important there are 100,000 well paid jobs riding on it in the UK,much more important than a spanish farmers crop of carrots,again your clutching at straws,mother nature could write off the farmers crops and they wont get out the ground never mind cross the channel,you really are struggling 

 

If cars are important ..... I just Googled "German cars brexit". Here are the first 2 searches:

 

Brexit could crush the German auto industry

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/brexit-could-crush-the-german-auto-industry-2019-02-11

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1103378/brexit-panic-german-car-giant-bmw-savings-no-deal-car-industry-volkswagen-germany

[nkg]

Even the Financial Times is predicting disaster for BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen and Audi if there is a no-deal Brexit:

 

https://www.ft.com/content/c06b1762-761d-11e8-b326-75a27d27ea5f

 

 

[aright]

21 minutes ago, bomber said:

i just dont see how a carrot grown in a spanish field can be an important factor in whether brexit goes ahead or doesnt,it was up to brexiteers to prove we would be better off out the EU,to say we MIGHT not buy their carrots is hardly going to turn heads,the separate issue of cars is important there are 100,000 well paid jobs riding on it in the UK,much more important than a spanish farmers crop of carrots,again your clutching at straws,mother nature could write off the farmers crops and they wont get out the ground never mind cross the channel,you really are struggling 

I can understand you not seeing the wood for the trees, it's part of your history.

The carrot isn't the issue, it's the man growing the carrot and his market that's the issue. It's not in his interest to lose the sale of the carrot to another supplier. It shouldn't surprise you that the grower doesn't want to lose his customer as a result of Brexit whereas the man who eats the carrot doesn't care where the vegetable comes from as long as it's there and if the carrot is cheaper he is all for Brexit whereas the EU farmer who might lose his customer as a result of Brexit would be lobbying for the UK to stay in the EU or asking the EU to give us a better deal to keep us in.

Get it now, I can't make it any planer  

 

Edited July 29, 2019 by aright

[Laughing Gravy]

3 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

On the contrary Brexit will lead to a reformed,  sleeker EU. It is currently not fit for purpose and was foisted on people without a vote. Brexit did not create a divided Britain nor did Trump divide America.  The divisions were there but the majority of people were being ignored by the liberal  marxist influenced power elite. Brexit and Trump gave people a chance to demonstrate their dissatisfaction with extremists values becoming the norm....especially the growth of victimhood, PC extremism, Judaphobia, Identify politics and the dismissal of the working and middle classes fears and concerns

I agree with much of this except the EU reforming. They are incapable of reforming, as the goal is a federalised Europe and the agenda doesn't look it will change, especially with a new EU president. Just look at the rhetoric they consistently say since Brexit. Their arrogance has no bounds. I believe it will need another country that contributes to the EU, to leave before they wake up and 'smell the coffee'.

[Laughing Gravy]

21 minutes ago, nkg said:

Even the Financial Times is predicting disaster for BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen and Audi if there is a no-deal Brexit:

 

https://www.ft.com/content/c06b1762-761d-11e8-b326-75a27d27ea5f

 

 

mmmmm a very one sided remaining tabloid saying this. But it is German cars so personally I think people should buy British cars.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Laughing Gravy

[Laughing Gravy]

3 hours ago, puipuitom said:

And the border between Gibraltar and Spain ? 

I haven't read one syllable about that. 

That is because there is no issue just like Ireland unless you try and create one, like the EU are with their puppet Leo as  a mothpiece.