Can I get P.R if I form a company and have WP for > 3 yrs?

[davidst01]

If the wife and I were to form a thai company and if I were to obtain a WP and earn > 40k a month and learn thai etc etc.... could I get permanent residency this way?

 

thanks

[ubonjoe]

It could be done but the company would have to appear to be really operating and conducting business.

Although not written in the current requirements as far as I know it is still a minimum of 50k baht when applying based upon marriage.

[davidst01]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

It could be done but the company would have to appear to be really operating and conducting business.

Although not written in the current requirements as far as I know it is still a minimum of 50k baht when applying based upon marriage.

We have  a legit business- well known in the community and hire 4 staff that are already on SS. 

 

Do you know if there's a department that one can call to verify this issue?

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, davidst01 said:

We have  a legit business- well known in the community and hire 4 staff that are already on SS. 

Is it a company or a partnership registered with 1 million baht? That is the  minimum needed to apply for a work permit.

What is important is that it does not appear to of been set up to apply for PR.

 

6 minutes ago, davidst01 said:

Do you know if there's a department that one can call to verify this issue?

You would have to contact the section at Chaeng Wattana immigration in Bangkok that handles PR applications for more info.

[davidst01]

23 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Is it a company or a partnership registered with 1 million baht? That is the  minimum needed to apply for a work permit.

What is important is that it does not appear to of been set up to apply for PR.

 

You would have to contact the section at Chaeng Wattana immigration in Bangkok that handles PR applications for more info.

we haven't set up a company yet. We operate via the wifes name and she pays personal tax. Im not working but feel I want to get a WP and get involved a bit. On this basis if we were to set one up this yr and me get a WP then I dont think it will look like we only set it up for me to get PR

 

I wonder if I should take a taxi out to that imm centre in bkk to ask. Would they allow me to speak to that specific dept or not is another question...

thanks

[simon43]

I think it's important to say that getting PR is not a 'done deal', just because you can meet the minimum requirements that permit you to apply for PR.  There are other minimum requirements that you also need to meet to get your step on the first rung of the application ladder.

 

I lived in Thailand for 18 years, previously with wife and kids, Master's degree from London University, business, MA in Thai, lots of charity donations etc.  I never managed in all that time to even reach the first step of that ladder.

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, davidst01 said:

Would they allow me to speak to that specific dept or not is another question...

Yes they would.

Here is the latest list of required documents and etc. Permanent Residency Requirements June 2019.pdf

[abrahamzvi]

2 hours ago, davidst01 said:

we haven't set up a company yet. We operate via the wifes name and she pays personal tax. Im not working but feel I want to get a WP and get involved a bit. On this basis if we were to set one up this yr and me get a WP then I dont think it will look like we only set it up for me to get PR

 

I wonder if I should take a taxi out to that imm centre in bkk to ask. Would they allow me to speak to that specific dept or not is another question...

thanks

I would suggest you consult a firm of lawyers specializing in Immigration affairs.

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

The business must show at least 1 million baht profit (or was it revenue... must have been profit) at least that was the case a decade ago when that rule was introduced and is unlikely to have been removed. So as Joe says, you could not do this with a dummy company. You'll have to provide payroll - showing salaries of all your employees including Thai employees of course (and you do have a ratio of how many Thais for each foreigner). There was also 2 million THB registered (I think it says paid up, but that's debatable) capital that needs to be registered for each work permit, or 1 million if foreigner has PR. You'll also need to provide yearly tax payments for company, and last 3 months tax payments including social security, etc. at application and every renewal of WP. So if you have a genuine business that's making a reasonable profit, have 3 years of extension of stay based on your work permit, have at least 85,000 baht salary per month (gross salary), and you can keep this through your PR approval process (as you could still be asked for company documents during process - I wasn't but I know some who were), you could of course apply.

 

If this was a company set up only for the purpose of PR, wasn't really going to do anything, it might not work out for you in the end. Documents you submit aren't just checked by the officer that accepts them, but a whole chain of people up to very senior positions, so the staff will want to filter out anything that could be fishy before submitting to higher level, so don't do anything that can bite you later. This isn't 90 day report but a 5 year effort. Do it right.

All true and the last paragraph is quite important (fishy or not).

 

Remember that the % of all applicants who are recommened to take the actual final interview is quite small, then more are deleted at the interview.

 

Therefore, obviosly you need to decide which items to get well prepared.

 

When I got PR 25 years ago the interview was in English, the captain discussed every item on the list and made strong emphasis on 2 points:

 

- Explain specifically how your work is helping to develop Thailand (the agent had briefed me beforehand on these points. I was not teaching English and the agent knew that, but he shared other cases where agents tell PR hopefuls who are teahing English don't say things like "it would be good if all Thai poeple could speak English", give an example of a much higher and specifc / rare scenario where there would be actual / real benefits if the Thai people involved could speak advanced English. 

 

-Proving that you have some form of long-term products to build funds for the long-term future The interviewing captain said 'I'm not an expert on this but please really convince me that you have such a plan, show me that it's already been operating for quite a few years and explain how it works'.

 

Whether they still focus on these points I have no idea.

 

In my day there was no Thai language test.

 

Back to the OP, perhaps it would be better to hold the WP and have the annual tax clearance for a longer period - say 5 years, perhaps this might help to kill any suggestion of a set up just to get PR.

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by scorecard

[jessebkk1]

It's really difficult to get that PR mate, and costly since you want to use your own company, there are so many possible pitfalls and traps. If you worked for a company that paid you over 85,000 Baht per month and was going to fight for a  PR, I would have said give it a shot, and even at that it's still a convulsing journey.

 

  Anyone not making emphasis on how hard it is might be misleading you.

 

 

[NightSky]

Ive got the Thai company, pay taxes, social fund for Thais and wp for 4 years so far and Im thinking of folding it since Im not even entitled to social fund apparently and PR is likely to fail since I only have few international customers.

 

I just cant see the point of maintaining it anymore, there are no benefits to being a foreign company owner or having a work permit or paying taxes here as I see it unless you have Thai customers and you are working in it maybe. I my as well move my company somewhere else that is less costly to maintain.

 

 

 

[davidst01]

I appreciate all the replies. They certainly make life hard for us foreigners. Quite backward / antiquated rules all completely out of date. Being married with kids means nothing to them. 

[SteveB2]

Dear OP - your whole idea of applying for RP based on meeting the minimum requirements is completey wrong.

 

Unlike all other visa application rules in Thailand, A successful PR application does not just meet the minimum PR requirements.

 

You will need to exceed the minimum requirements by many times in order to be considered acceptable to the CW PR team.

 

Based on personal experience during my own PR application, consider the published minimum requirements for all areas to be 20% of what the PR team really consider to be a desirable PR applicant.

 

So...

Example #1: if one of the PR list of requirements asks for 3 years minimum extension of visa based on work - then what they really would like to see is 5 x 3 = 15 years extensions.

 

Example #2: If the PR application asks for a minimum THB80K monthly salary, what they would really like to see is THB400K/month

 

I hope this info helps to prevent wasted time on your own PR application 

 

 

 

[ukrules]

I know only one guy who has PR and he's got millions (dollars) in the bank and knows all the right people, without that he would have had no chance at all.

 

[ubonjoe]

13 hours ago, davidst01 said:

I appreciate all the replies. They certainly make life hard for us foreigners. Quite backward / antiquated rules all completely out of date. Being married with kids means nothing to them. 

Most people that can qualify for PR based upon marriage and/or having children apply for Thai citizenship now since they changed the nationality act in 2009 to allow applications for them without PR.

[rimmae2]

10 hours ago, SteveB2 said:

Dear OP - your whole idea of applying for RP based on meeting the minimum requirements is completey wrong.

 

Unlike all other visa application rules in Thailand, A successful PR application does not just meet the minimum PR requirements.

 

You will need to exceed the minimum requirements by many times in order to be considered acceptable to the CW PR team.

 

Based on personal experience during my own PR application, consider the published minimum requirements for all areas to be 20% of what the PR team really consider to be a desirable PR applicant.

 

So...

Example #1: if one of the PR list of requirements asks for 3 years minimum extension of visa based on work - then what they really would like to see is 5 x 3 = 15 years extensions.

 

Example #2: If the PR application asks for a minimum THB80K monthly salary, what they would really like to see is THB400K/month

 

I hope this info helps to prevent wasted time on your own PR application 

 

 

 

 

Re following and your examples I think and (know in case of successful candidates) that what you have stated are big exaggerations. Apart from that don't deter someone. PR suits some people; citizenship others and in recent 3 to 4 years obtaining from PR from date of application to date of receiving PR has been 'much' quicker than same process for citizenship.

 

"You will need to exceed the minimum requirements by many times in order to be considered acceptable to the CW PR team."

[SS1]

On 7/30/2019 at 7:03 AM, simon43 said:

I think it's important to say that getting PR is not a 'done deal', just because you can meet the minimum requirements that permit you to apply for PR.  There are other minimum requirements that you also need to meet to get your step on the first rung of the application ladder.

 

I lived in Thailand for 18 years, previously with wife and kids, Master's degree from London University, business, MA in Thai, lots of charity donations etc.  I never managed in all that time to even reach the first step of that ladder.

 

You are surely correct with that - just meeting the requirements is still far off actual approval. However, can you specify why you never managed to 'reach the first step of that ladder', as your credentials sound pretty strong for the application? 

[simon43]

39 minutes ago, SS1 said:

 

You are surely correct with that - just meeting the requirements is still far off actual approval. However, can you specify why you never managed to 'reach the first step of that ladder', as your credentials sound pretty strong for the application? 

Down to corruption in Phuket.  When I applied for a work permit, I was asked to pay 50,000 baht under the table to the Labour department for them to issue me with a WP.  I refused to pay.... they refused to give me a WP - My business paid correct corporation taxes, but as an individual I couldn't demonstrate 3 years of having worked and paid income tax ==> impossible to apply for PR.

 

I encountered corrruption on various occasions in Phuket, corruption that finally forced me off the island.  Never been back since.  

[drbeach]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Most people that can qualify for PR based upon marriage and/or having children apply for Thai citizenship now since they changed the nationality act in 2009 to allow applications for them without PR. 

Would make more sense anyway, given that Thailand recognizes dual nationality and there is little benefit to having PR. Whereas with Thai citizenship you can suddenly own land, no need to report to immigration, no need for re-entry permits and you can easily start a business or a job.

[davidst01]

On 7/31/2019 at 8:11 AM, ubonjoe said:

Most people that can qualify for PR based upon marriage and/or having children apply for Thai citizenship now since they changed the nationality act in 2009 to allow applications for them without PR.

Does one still have to show WP and prove income as per the stated rules?

[Isaanbiker]

On 7/30/2019 at 11:03 AM, simon43 said:

I think it's important to say that getting PR is not a 'done deal', just because you can meet the minimum requirements that permit you to apply for PR.  There are other minimum requirements that you also need to meet to get your step on the first rung of the application ladder.

 

I lived in Thailand for 18 years, previously with wife and kids, Master's degree from London University, business, MA in Thai, lots of charity donations etc.  I never managed in all that time to even reach the first step of that ladder.

You've already gone up the ladder a few steps!! 

[ubonjoe]

35 minutes ago, davidst01 said:

Does one still have to show WP and prove income as per the stated rules?

Yes you do.

[LivinLOS]

I have to admit, its very much on my mind to start running money through a BOI employment umbrella company, to provide salary and work permit, even tho I am not here that many months a year.. Simply so in a few years time I at least have the chance of application. 

After a couple decades now, I really dont want to go into my 50s and 60s etc, to bring perhaps a million USD or more into the country parked in land and houses, and not have some security.. I remember when my first wife died and how that simply gives you a short amount of time to leave and can only imagine how much worse all that would be with actual assets here, last time it was just a car and some nonsense. 

[jayboy]

7 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

I have to admit, its very much on my mind to start running money through a BOI employment umbrella company, to provide salary and work permit ...
 

Since there is no such thing as a "BOI employment umbrella company" , you will encounter some difficulties in attempting to "start running money through" one.

[Number 6]

MUST you speak Thai?

 

As poster before 80k in salary? True. Is that for entire three years before submitting application?

 

Can you show 3-4 work permits? Good enough? Tax forms or something from tax office?

 

Thanks

Edited August 3, 2019 by Number 6

[ubonjoe]

53 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

MUST you speak Thai?

As poster before 80k in salary? True. Is that for entire three years before submitting application?

Can you show 3-4 work permits? Good enough? Tax forms or something from tax office?

Best to ask your questions in this long running topic. Camerata's Guide to Permanent Residence

There are people with PR that follow that topic and you can find a lot of useful info in it.

 

[LivinLOS]

15 hours ago, jayboy said:

Since there is no such thing as a "BOI employment umbrella company" , you will encounter some difficulties in attempting to "start running money through" one.

erm.. there are multiple examples of exactly that.. 

 

I know the one local to me has multiple 100s of non Thai freelancers working for it, surely your not ignorant of this option ?? 

[jayboy]

On 8/4/2019 at 9:10 AM, LivinLOS said:

erm.. there are multiple examples of exactly that.. 

 

I know the one local to me has multiple 100s of non Thai freelancers working for it, surely your not ignorant of this option ?? 

If you are talking about authorised companies with BOI privileges, yes of course there are provisions for expatriates to work in Thailand in these - though I have no idea what you mean by "freelancers".

 

But as noted earlier, there are no such things as BOI umbrella companies in the sense of being created to provide employment for expatriates.I would assume this was just a misunderstanding on your part were it not for the reference to "running money through".

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, jayboy said:

If you are talking about authorised companies with BOI privileges, yes of course there are provisions for expatriates to work in Thailand in these - though I have no idea what you mean by "freelancers".

 

But as noted earlier, there are no such things as BOI umbrella companies in the sense of being created to provide employment for expatriates.I would assume this was just a misunderstanding on your part were it not for the reference to "running money through".

Except thats exactly what they do.. Engage 100s of western self employed workers (aka freelancers) in the BOI approved field (in this case tech workers) and the need for X Thai nationals per work permit is removed / exempted. 

These kind of payroll companies where the freelancer comes with thier own client base to be provided payrolling solutions / legality when 'running thier invoices through' the payrolling company are in the west called 'umbrella companies' very commonly used in construction etc to legalize self employed workers either cross border (as is the case here) or in one country when self employed rules and conditions are not met. I own one of these exact forms of umbrella payrolling companies for cross border workers !!