Are big bikes worth it?

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

to require big bike owners to hold special licences and undergo thorough training before they can be allowed on road

????????????

[DualSportBiker]

It is scary to see how consistently the point is missed. Both the TV community, and the powers that try to be.

 

88% of 2019's deaths on bikes of 150cc and under, yet everyone is screaming about the need for special treatment of big bikes! Hello? Anybody thinking that ALL riders need better training?

 

Both car and bike tests here are a joke. They prove you can park a car and not fall off - nothing more. This is the root cause of the issue; nobody has any road skills or strategy. Until this is fixed, pratting around with special licenses will not solve the problem. This is precisely what is meant by closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

 

Yes, the roads are not great. Yes, junction design is often bad. Yes, the police are not preventing anything. However, better roads and policing will not address the underlying issue of incompetence. Once drivers/riders are clued-in, road and policing improvements will be force-multipliers. Horse goes in front on cart...

Edited August 2, 2019 by DualSportBiker
clarity of language

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

50 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

I thought all M/c now were a minimum 125 cc who is still making 110cc ?

There are still a lot 110cc and 115cc bikes being produced - and literally 100,000s on the road in Thailand alone. Waves, Mios, Shoguns, Bests, Icons, Spacys, Nouvos, Zoomers etc. I have a Mio 115 FI (air-cooled), it's a great, reliable little bike with excellent acceleration and decent top-end given its displacement. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[geronimo]

Just now, DualSportBiker said:

It is scary to see how consistently the point is missed. Both the TV community, and the powers that try to be.

 

88% of 2019's deaths on bikes of 150cc and under, yet everyone is screaming about the need for special treatment of big bikes! Hello? Anybody thinking that ALL riders need better training?

 

Both car and bike tests here are a joke. They prove you can park a car and not fall off - nothing more. This is the root cause of the issue; nobody has any road skills or strategy. Until this is fixed, pratting around with special licenses will not solve the problem. This is precisely what is meant by closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

 

Yes, the roads are not great. Yes, junction design is often bad. Yes, the police are not preventing anything. However, better roads and policing will not address the underlying issue of incompetence. Once drivers/riders are clued-in, they will be force-multipliers. Horse goes in front on cart...

I agree, yet the focus of this thread is big bikes, hence no mention of the smaller machines.

[Thaifriends]

I beleive the heavier the bike, more safer but that adds up to speed so needs to be compatible roads and higher driving skills.

[rabas]

38 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

No way, what have you been riding?

 

If I was on my bike and you were on a Honda Wave. doing 100kmh - and both did an emergency stop, I would have rolled a ciggy and smoked half of it before you stopped.

 

My bike would also not skid all over the road under hard braking.

Three things determine your ability to break.  Your breaks, your tires, and the road surface. Road traction is the biggest variable especially in moist tropical countries with lush vegetation, leaky trucks, and dirty sandy roads. Macho breaking can kill as easily as speeding.

 

By the time his Honda stops, you could be 1/2 way through a concrete bridge piling.  (I know you know this, but it's good for everyone to hear.)

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by rabas

[geronimo]

1 minute ago, rabas said:

Three things determine your ability to break.  Your breaks, your tires, and the road surface. Road traction is the biggest variable especially in moist tropical countries with lush vegetation, leaky trucks, and dirty sandy roads. Macho breaking can kill as easily as speeding.

 

By the time his Honda stops, you could be 1/2 way through a concrete bridge piling.

(I know you know this, but its good for everyone to hear.)

 

Dare I add a further factor that determines braking ability? How you use them (ratio of front to back)

[Matzzon]

Yes, big bikes are definately worth it. I ride myself, and would never even think about putting myself on one of those machines without having proper education, training and a real driving school in the background.

That´s where the unworthyness in this neverending story lays. So, much talk and nobody understand that it´s not the bikes that are dangerous. It´s all the untrained drivers with no experience that believes it´s ok to buy a 600-1300 cc bike and drive as fast as possible.

[Mukdahanman]

2 hours ago, luk AJ said:

I love big bikes (min 1000cc) but with age comes slower reaction and more fear.. so regrettably I had to settle for a 350cc scooter type. People choose race-bikes for the experience of super acceleration and speed.
Many take risks which one day will be fatal. I share the opinion of some other posters here to have a mandatory awareness and technical training, even after one day riders will remember this for a long time. I suggest to hand them a nice badge after the training which they can proudly display on their motorbike.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Out of interest, which 350 did you choose and why?

I’m about to do exactly what you’ve done and I’d appreciate your advice, as there are plenty to choose from around that size.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Mukdahanman

[morocco]

People buy a big superbike and have absolutely no experience riding these bikes.  Yea a lot of them will end up crippled or dead. And Thailand is not the only country this happens. It happens all over the world. It should be mandatory that a person should have experience riding a 400cc - 650cc bike before they get on an insanely fast superbike.  I've been riding bikes for 40 years, and I worked my way up from 400cc - 500cc - 750cc bikes to a Ducati 999 monster. If that Ducati had been my first bike I would probably be dead. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by morocco

[Pedrogaz]

I wouldn't give one houseroom, but then I'm old and not a biker. Should public roads be places to massage people's egos and make them feel good by accelerating very fast, or should they be places where you can get from points A to B safely and efficiently?

Let everyone have a big bike if it is about ego massaging or super fast acceleration. If not let these people go to the racetrack.

[rabas]

1 hour ago, The Preacher said:

I've been riding bikes a long time.  THERE IS ONLY ONE RULE:  It is up to the rider to stay alive.

Literal fact. I've often tried to explain this by saying, "If you can't drive home at night with the lights off, in Bangkok, you should reconsider riding here." Why? No one sees you and they don't particularly care anyway if they have a bigger vehicle. Drive as if you are invisible. You are.

 

The other is don't drive slower than the surrounding traffic. If you are a little bit fast all your problems are in front of you.

[johnarth]

4 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

If one wants to do "touring" in Thailand and better avoid an early death one should rent a car or, better yet, take the bus. These spectacular crashes we've been seeing are not done with "touring" bikes but with racing bikes that don't strike me as being the best tour bikes such as the Honda Gold Wing, for example.

 

 

thank god someone knows the difference I used to do a lot of touring in Australia over long distances to do those trips on a racing bike would leave you in pain for days after Harley had it right for years but newer bikes are changing shape even the best of the best fall off racing bikes

[hotchilli]

My father who I have a lot respect for rode motor cycles all his life in England, obviously going through the BSA's, Triumphs, Nortons, he even had an Ariel SQ4 that I remember fondly, before the Jap bikes came along and killed off the Birtish bikes.

He said big bikes can get you out of trouble quick & into it just as fast... it's up to the rider.

Having said that here in Thailand I often think while riding in a pick-up being tossed around & thrown up to the ceiling by pot-holes & drain covers that stick up a mile I'd never ride a bike over here!

[ICELANDMAN]

28 minutes ago, rabas said:

Three things determine your ability to break.  Your breaks, your tires, and the road surface. Road traction is the biggest variable especially in moist tropical countries with lush vegetation, leaky trucks, and dirty sandy roads. Macho breaking can kill as easily as speeding.

 

By the time his Honda stops, you could be 1/2 way through a concrete bridge piling.  (I know you know this, but it's good for everyone to hear.)

 

Three things only, I remember you are Thailand with street dogs and madness goes in the opposite direction and more and more  Russian roulette only stay on the Thai road

Edited August 2, 2019 by ICELANDMAN

[milesinnz]

4 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

If one wants to do "touring" in Thailand and better avoid an early death one should rent a car or, better yet, take the bus. These spectacular crashes we've been seeing are not done with "touring" bikes but with racing bikes that don't strike me as being the best tour bikes such as the Honda Gold Wing, for example.

 

 

clearly you have never toured on a big bike, or probably not even a smaller one. but maybe you just feel you have a right to try and enforce your values as to the way people should feel and behave. I wonder what else you would be advising people not to do ? Not to go sky diving, scuba diving, or even go to a Thai bar ????

Edited August 2, 2019 by milesinnz

[animatic]

This is only being talked about because a younger brother of a well known person screwed up while riding last week. In their minds now. Wait 3 weeks, gone from the zeitguiest.

 

200,000 big bikes, but how many accidents and deaths from no helmets on small bikes, or from car drivers taking out bikes of all sizes from ineptitude??? 10’s of thousands.

 

Yes, extra training for big bike riders is a good idea. I moved from small to big bikes 50 years ago, 2 accidents in all that time, only one bad.

 

Bad one happened here of course, at 25 kph, caused by a thai small bike rider, doing something so bad that his boss paid me 225,000b for my lost time. 

 

So, more training for ALL riders gets my vote!

 

[Percy P]

6 hours ago, smedly said:

90% of accidents in Thailand someone is breaking the law - it doesn't matter whether motorbike or car - it doesn't matter the size of the car or motorbike - someone is doing something wrong, who is there to stop them - nobody

 

and 90% of them know they are doing something wrong and they will keep doing it until the risk of being caught increases 

And how many who were killed had no helmet on.

[watcharacters]

6 hours ago, smedly said:

they will keep doing it until the risk of being caught increases 

 

Or they're killed in an accident!

 

 

[MaxYakov]

2 minutes ago, milesinnz said:

clearly you have never toured on a big bike, or probably not even a smaller one. but maybe you just feel you have a right to try and enforce your values as to the way people should feel and behave. I wonder what else you would be advising people not to do ? Not to go sky diving, scuba diving, or even go to a Thai bar ????

I'm not trying to enforce my values on anyone. If I were I'd be out confiscating bikes of operators who were not wearing helmets as I believe the RTP should be but cannot for various reasons. Do you not value road "safety"? The Thais do not seem to.

 

BTW, isn't it ridiculous to compare sky and scuba diving (not to mention Thai bars) to riding a big bike or any bike on Thai roads. The death statistics with the percentage of deaths where motorbikes are involved pretty much tells the story doesn't it? What I ride or do not ride is not relevant to the carnage occurring on Thai roads, IMHO.

 

Am I not entitled to an opinion in this PC world?

 

Cannot you not read and understand the chart given in the OP? I am referring to Thailand as is the OP. 

[Jonah Tenner]

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of this table into age groups. In another group someone claimed that out of a total of 26,000 traffic deaths in 2018, 17,000 were under 18.
I have been unable to verify those numbers, so an official statistic on the subject would be interesting in that it would show where the maximum effort should be made.

[geronimo]

Just now, Jonah Tenner said:

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of this table into age groups. In another group someone claimed that out of a total of 26,000 traffic deaths in 2018, 17,000 were under 18.
I have been unable to verify those numbers, so an official statistic on the subject would be interesting in that it would show where the maximum effort should be made.

I'd be prepared to bet a tenner those figures are accurate (I'll get my coat on the way out)

[overherebc]

44 minutes ago, geronimo said:

Dare I add a further factor that determines braking ability? How you use them (ratio of front to back)

From what I've seen here it's mainly just grab a big handful of front brake with obvious results.

The other biggie is panic lock up, ie the rider does nothing and the bike hits whatever, tends to be at the same time as feet off the pegs and the imagined braking effect they have.

[Percy P]

6 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

Nothing wrong with the bikes .. But you have to be super experienced and exercise great restraint with the throttle wrist on one to not end up dead .. 

But in general Thais like the noise and the way to make noise from a vehicle is to open up the throttle.which could put powerful machine's in a spin. I'm a MC rider with a 900 cc BMW in England but I would not ride of drive anything on Thai roads.

[atyclb]

in developed countries the normal motorcycle would be considered a big bike by thai standards but just a bike.  in developed counries the small bike are akin to scooters.

 

imo brake better, are more stable and more comfortable but roads and people in thailand make it very dangerous

[geronimo]

Just now, overherebc said:

From what I've seen here it's mainly just grab a big handful of front brake with obvious results.

The other biggie is panic lock up, ie the rider does nothing and the bike hits whatever, tends to be at the same time as feet off the pegs and the imagined braking effect they have.

back to training again ......

[Percy P]

6 hours ago, smedly said:

90% of accidents in Thailand someone is breaking the law - it doesn't matter whether motorbike or car - it doesn't matter the size of the car or motorbike - someone is doing something wrong, who is there to stop them - nobody

 

and 90% of them know they are doing something wrong and they will keep doing it until the risk of being caught increases 

Like no wearing a safety helmet or safety belt in the car.

[Katipo]

Thailand is a fantastic country to tour on a big bike. Of course there is always going to be an element of risk, but at the end of the day a lot of that risk comes down to how much training and experience the rider has, how they ride the bike (drunk, too fast?), and what precautions and safety equipment they use.

 

[Asquith Production]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

Three things determine your ability to break.  Your breaks, your tires, and the road surface. Road traction is the biggest variable especially in moist tropical countries with lush vegetation, leaky trucks, and dirty sandy roads. Macho breaking can kill as easily as speeding.

 

By the time his Honda stops, you could be 1/2 way through a concrete bridge piling.  (I know you know this, but it's good for everyone to hear.)

 

You forgot reaction time. The time between seeing the hazard and actually braking. If you are travelling at 100kph in 1 sec you have travelled 27.7 metres. Most people have a reaction time of 0.7 so the distance travelled would be slightly less and you haven't Started to slow down yet. 

[Percy P]

5 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

Big bikes should be restricted to racetracks. The ordinary motor vehicle infrastructure was not designed with them in mind. You don't see formula 1 cars on the roads very often. Big bikes are just splendid for dramatic, horrific demonstrations of suicide on ordinary roads.

They also have smaller c.c bikes on the face track.