Pro-EU Liberal Democrats win parliamentary seat from UK PM Johnson's Conservatives

[kingdong]

9 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Habitual liar with a majority of 1 promises to take the UK out of the EU regardless of consequences to the economy and jobs - 'a price worth paying'.

 

 

the "consequences to the economy and jobs"is only coming coming from people like you who seem unable to grasp the concept of democracy,and are undermining britains chances of getting a good trade deal from the eu with your continual whingeing making us all look like  mugs.WE,RE  LEAVING.

Edited August 2, 2019 by kingdong
gash keyboard

[stevenl]

27 minutes ago, kingdong said:

the "consequences to the economy and jobs"is only coming coming from people like you who seem unable to grasp the concept of democracy,and are undermining britains chances of getting a good trade deal from the eu with your continual whingeing making us all look like  mugs.WE,RE  LEAVING.

Ah, the blame game for after brexit has started. It is the remainers fault if the UK doesn't get a favourable trade.

[kingdong]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Ah, the blame game for after brexit has started. It is the remainers fault if the UK doesn't get a favourable trade.

yes

[brewsterbudgen]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1158787/brexit-news-sky-latest-jo-swinson-liberal-democrats-second-referendum-corbyn-video

So just one politician, who didn't actually say what you said, but rather, said she personally wouldn't change her mind if the result of the 2nd Referendum was Leave.

I'm sure if the result is Remain, Nigel and Boris will give up their fight!

We'll just have to see. A Brexit General Election is more likely anyway.



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[vogie]

7 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

So just one politician, who didn't actually say what you said, but rather, said she personally wouldn't change her mind if the result of the 2nd Referendum was Leave.

I'm sure if the result is Remain, Nigel and Boris will give up their fight!

We'll just have to see. A Brexit General Election is more likely anyway.



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There are two politicians that I have shown you, and there will be many many more, are you saying that the whole of the LibDems and Greens would be happy with another leave victory, of course they wouldn't. Let's be honest with one another, you must know and I know that the only people that want another referendum are the losers who didn't want Brexit in the first place.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

There are two politicians that I have shown you, and there will be many many more, are you saying that the whole of the LibDems and Greens would be happy with another leave victory, of course they wouldn't. Let's be honest with one another, you must know and I know that the only people that want another referendum are the losers who didn't want Brexit in the first place.

 

 

 Not entirely true.

 

I personally know people who voted Leave who regret their decision and want this whole crock of Brexit reversed.

 

As it will be.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Chomper Higgot

[bristolboy]

32 minutes ago, kingdong said:

yes

The buck stops there?

[vogie]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

 Not entirely true.

 

I personally know people who voted Leave who regret their decision and want this whole crock of Brexit reverses.

Strange you should mention that, I don't know any, but I have heard of people that voted remain now they know how the EU operates wish to leave, but c'est la vie.

[sammieuk1]

Worst case scenario but not of course for the well off????

It reiterates the likelihood that “low income groups may be disproportionately affected by price rises in utilities and services” and by “price rises...including food and fuel”.

There is also concern that food banks may struggle for funding – a record 1.6m emergency food parcels were given out by the Trussell Trust food bank network last year – more than 500,000 of them to children.

[Nigel Garvie]

6 hours ago, dunroaming said:

And I am still waiting for the EU to come to offering us "the easiest deal ever".  I guess we are both out of luck there.  Nobody knows how badly the UK economy will be hit until we leave but everyone can agree, it will be hit!

Me also. I chanced on this old video that has helped me understand the "Thinking" of the ERG. Strangely John Bird manages to look quite like that apology for a human being Frances. Almost deja vu the whole thing. 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6a_weyzkY4&feature=player_embedded&fbclid=IwAR0ONTAPf9USOoIKAgd1_EcEl85XT-rmqeX5PjNlTGjiUgq8KCwrjMdNmnA

[tomacht8]

1 hour ago, sammieuk1 said:

Worst case scenario but not of course for the well off????

It reiterates the likelihood that “low income groups may be disproportionately affected by price rises in utilities and services” and by “price rises...including food and fuel”.

There is also concern that food banks may struggle for funding – a record 1.6m emergency food parcels were given out by the Trussell Trust food bank network last year – more than 500,000 of them to children.

A tragedy.
And nobody asks in the UK who has all the money.
The GINI coefficient of the UK is very bad.
The UK lies between Liberia and Pakistan.
No joke.

Few of the UK have much money (probably nicely parked in a tax haven) and many have nothing.
How the income is distributed in the UK, Is 100% UK internally politic.
The EU has no influence.
The EU is just trying to close the tax havens of the super-rich, and tries to lay the foundation that the respective countries can tax the wealth of the super rich.

[Basil B]

2 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

We'll just have to see. A Brexit General Election is more likely anyway.
 

The only way a Brexit GE would work was if the Brexit Party and Tories went into a alliance... ????

 

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Basil B

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

A tragedy.
And nobody asks in the UK who has all the money.
The GINI coefficient of the UK is very bad.
The UK lies between Liberia and Pakistan.
No joke.

Few of the UK have much money (probably nicely parked in a tax haven) and many have nothing.
How the income is distributed in the UK, Is 100% UK internally politic.
The EU has no influence.
The EU is just trying to close the tax havens of the super-rich, and tries to lay the foundation that the respective countries can tax the wealth of the super rich.

And Japan further down, then Luxembourg. 

[tomacht8]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

And Japan further down, then Luxembourg. 

That's right.
Luxembourg is a dwarf state with the highest per capita income in the EU at 96,700 euros (2018).
Here even the "poorest" have more than the average European.

In Japan, adjusted disposable household disposable net income averages $ 29,798 per year, lower than the OECD average of $ 33,604 per year. There is a big gap between the richest and the poorest part of the population - the top 20% of the population earn more than six times as much as the bottom 20%.

[brewsterbudgen]

Strange you should mention that, I don't know any, but I have heard of people that voted remain now they know how the EU operates wish to leave, but c'est la vie.

So let's have a public vote and find out!

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[brewsterbudgen]

The only way a Brexit GE would work was if the Brexit Party and Tories went into a alliance... [emoji1787]
 
 

True. Against a Labour/Lib Dem/Green/SNP Remain alliance.

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[stephenterry]

12 hours ago, kingdong said:

but hey,remember britain voted to leave the EU in a referendum wasn,t that democracy? obviously not as the remoaners didn,t get the result they wanted,31st oct we,re out.

Well, it was up to the Tory government to action the result as they and Labour both stated they'd honour the vote. However, if Johnson actually succeeds in taking the UK out of the EU by 31st October, hang on to your hat because it's going to be a bumpy ride for the next few years, most of it non-beneficial to the man in the street - and Welsh farmers... 

 

Democracy means that every Tom, Dick, and Harry can lobby and campaign against the UK government if they choose because that is what democracy is - something that Leavers can't grasp, including posters on this forum. 

Put it this way, had the Remain voters won the referendum, the Leavers would be democratically entitled to canvas the government against the result.

 

Is that crystal?

 

And in some ways, that's exactly what Farage has been doing - campaigning against the government -and parliament for obstructing Brexit.  And that is why Johnson is determined to action Brexit, come what may, to save the Tory party from extinction in the next GE - unfortunately to save his job, not for the benefit of the UK.

 

[vogie]

36 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

So let's have a public vote and find out!

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I am not sure why you are being so obstinate, the 2016 referendum has not been acted on yet, democracy is being made a fool of. Yet you want another referendum where it is obvious that should the leavers win again it would again not be acted on. Surely you can see the futility of such an exercise, it would be pointless. All a losers vote would do is satisfy your curiosity.

[brewsterbudgen]

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

I am not sure why you are being so obstinate, the 2016 referendum has not been acted on yet, democracy is being made a fool of. Yet you want another referendum where it is obvious that should the leavers win again it would again not be acted on. Surely you can see the futility of such an exercise, it would be pointless. All a losers vote would do is satisfy your curiosity.

Personally I don't favour another referendum, and would prefer a General Election with clear manifesto commitments to Leave (deal or no deal) or Revoke and Remain.  The UK is a parliamentary democracy and parliament should be sovereign.

[Laughing Gravy]

55 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

So let's have a public vote and find out!

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Had one already. Where have you been! The once in a generation vote in 2016 which still hasn't been acted upon.

Or do you mean lets vote again as we didn't get the result and lost and we don't believe in democracy.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Laughing Gravy

[vogie]

1 minute ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Personally I don't favour another referendum, and would prefer a General Election with clear manifesto commitments to Leave (deal or no deal) or Revoke and Remain.  The UK is a parliamentary democracy and parliament should be sovereign.

Parliament is indeed sovereign and as such voted almost to a man to leave the European Union.

[Chomper Higgot]

18 minutes ago, vogie said:

I am not sure why you are being so obstinate, the 2016 referendum has not been acted on yet, democracy is being made a fool of. Yet you want another referendum where it is obvious that should the leavers win again it would again not be acted on. Surely you can see the futility of such an exercise, it would be pointless. All a losers vote would do is satisfy your curiosity.

There’s an obvious and significant practical problem with your argument.

 

Right now nobody knows if, in the light of the more clearly understood consequences, leaving the E.U. with or without a deal is acceptable to the electorate. Claims by both Leave and Remain have been replaced by the reality the nation faces.

 

You argue, Leave first and don’t ask the electorate again until after leaving.

 

The problem is, doing so would deny the UK any future access to the rafts of hard won concessions in its E.U. membership.

 

Far more sensible to go back to the electorate and ask ‘is this what you wanted?’.

 

Those arguing Leave is the will of the people can hardly object to the people being asked to confirm that this crock of Brexit is what they wanted.

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Chomper Higgot

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, vogie said:

Parliament is indeed sovereign and as such voted almost to a man to leave the European Union.

And it is within the powers of Parliamentary Sovereignty to reverse that decision.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Far more sensible to go back to the electorate and ask ‘is this what you wanted?’.

Yes lets patronise the electorate. It was not a difficult question, not for some anyway. I can only repeat that if the losers are not going to honour the result of another referendum, what would be the point of having one.

[brewsterbudgen]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And it is within the powers of Parliamentary Sovereignty to reverse that decision.

Brexiteers seem to think time was frozen in 2016!

[vogie]

1 minute ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Brexiteers seem to think time was frozen in 2016!

It matters not one jot what Brexiteers think, you have said it yourself, parliament is sovereign and parliament voted to leave, I than queue (Arthur Askey).

[brewsterbudgen]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

It matters not one jot what Brexiteers think, you have said it yourself, parliament is sovereign and parliament voted to leave, I than queue (Arthur Askey).

A new parliament can decide differently.  Let the people decide.

 

"I than queue (Arthur Askey)" - not sure I understand.

[nauseus]

8 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

That's right.
Luxembourg is a dwarf state with the highest per capita income in the EU at 96,700 euros (2018).
Here even the "poorest" have more than the average European.

In Japan, adjusted disposable household disposable net income averages $ 29,798 per year, lower than the OECD average of $ 33,604 per year. There is a big gap between the richest and the poorest part of the population - the top 20% of the population earn more than six times as much as the bottom 20%.

But their GINI coefficients are worse than the UK?

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, stephenterry said:

Well, it was up to the Tory government to action the result as they and Labour both stated they'd honour the vote. However, if Johnson actually succeeds in taking the UK out of the EU by 31st October, hang on to your hat because it's going to be a bumpy ride for the next few years, most of it non-beneficial to the man in the street - and Welsh farmers... 

 

Democracy means that every Tom, Dick, and Harry can lobby and campaign against the UK government if they choose because that is what democracy is - something that Leavers can't grasp, including posters on this forum. 

Put it this way, had the Remain voters won the referendum, the Leavers would be democratically entitled to canvas the government against the result.

 

Is that crystal?

 

And in some ways, that's exactly what Farage has been doing - campaigning against the government -and parliament for obstructing Brexit.  And that is why Johnson is determined to action Brexit, come what may, to save the Tory party from extinction in the next GE - unfortunately to save his job, not for the benefit of the UK.

 

Well, that's one way to spin it. Another way to look at it may be that upholding the result of a democratic vote is more important to the country than anything else. In reality. if remain had won the referendum, then leavers, generally, would value democracy and would not be constantly complaining, carping and whinging - although they would be democratically entitled to canvas against the result - which remainers are doing and which is not beneficial to the UK. 

[nauseus]

34 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Personally I don't favour another referendum, and would prefer a General Election with clear manifesto commitments to Leave (deal or no deal) or Revoke and Remain.  The UK is a parliamentary democracy and parliament should be sovereign.

Well we can see the how well the commitments from the last GE manifestos of the major parties have been honoured now, eh? How can anyone believe them??