EU must change its negotiating terms for Brexit, says Britain's Barclay

[OneMoreFarang]

4 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

Are you Irish ? IRA ?

if not why should the border be any problem

Free movement will still be allowed, subject to normal security arrangements, as i believe it states in the Good Friday Agreement

Could you explain why you or any Irish person could justify murdering innocent people, just because you have to show a passport to enter another country, and with the possible check for smuggled goods ?

Are you advocating murdering people in other countries because you have to show your passport and sometimes have your bags inspected ?

Fair questions!

I have to admit I don't know what will happen. I was never in that region and have no personal experience with it. I never even talked to anybody who had personal experience with that conflict.

But I remember the news about the IRA and the bombs and lots of dead and injured people. And I guess most of us agree we don't want something like that again.

I guess that is the reason why the EU and UK discussed about that possible border long and hard and why they both agreed that they need the backstop to avoid the border.

I think, but obviously I don't know, that the people in the EU decided that this is important because it is actually important. They want to make sure there is peace. They want to make sure the conflict does not start again. It's good that they take this serious. Avoiding conflicts before they happen is a lot better than trying to solve them after they happen.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

now tell me, did he say no to back stop, than we are back at the same point. Think, if there is not border between UK/EU than no need for EU to exist, all open free trade no customs, all other members will ask to leave thus no need to pay any membership fees, goods shipped from all around the world lending in NI ( a  member of the UK which will have fantastic new trade agreements with the majority of the outside EU world) these goods will be traveling to EU from UK/NI without any customs duties, no country of origin safety checks, child labor, intellectual property violations and I leave the rest to your wild imagination..... free world, Trump will be in trouble, no need for additional negotiations with China, I do dream sometimes but never to that extreme, this (really) would be a dream come thru and the funny thing some of the UK people may believe it..... UK leaves the EU will be considered as another country, no special deals or trade agreements, if they want special deals and special trade agreements they should have stayed, does it sound logic to you while UK was a member of the EU free trade agreements they had special treatment, when they leave why should they still have same, it doesn't sound right, correct? if doesn't sound right it means it's not right. Example assuming you are married and share property with your wife, enjoying profits/benefits from said property, with your wife, now let's assume the worse scenario and you divorce/separate from each other, each going on different directions, do you expect to keep enjoying same property benefits, even if a friendly divorce, 99.9% of the case it doesn't happen

Don't know about anyone else but I got lost in there.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Fair questions!

I have to admit I don't know what will happen. I was never in that region and have no personal experience with it. I never even talked to anybody who had personal experience with that conflict.

But I remember the news about the IRA and the bombs and lots of dead and injured people. And I guess most of us agree we don't want something like that again.

I guess that is the reason why the EU and UK discussed about that possible border long and hard and why they both agreed that they need the backstop to avoid the border.

I think, but obviously I don't know, that the people in the EU decided that this is important because it is actually important. They want to make sure there is peace. They want to make sure the conflict does not start again. It's good that they take this serious. Avoiding conflicts before they happen is a lot better than trying to solve them after they happen.

"It's good that they take this serious."

 

The EU are taking it so serious they won't sit down and talk, perleeeaase.

[candide]

6 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

But could you also include all the other benefits they receive, like benefits housing allowances, child allowance, etc, 

I know many people from places like Poland who work hard, have good jobs and pay their way, but many of these complain of the "leeches " from their own country who take and not give back

I don't think it will ever happen, but would be good if we could reduce the amount of immigrants living in the UK. which in turn would reduce the stress on our health service and housing stock. maybe go to using a points system like the Australians,  

"The EU born have had a lower unemployment rate than the UK born since 2008 and it stood at 3.4% in 2018. Non-EU migrants have always had higher unemployment rates than their UK-born counterparts (5.7% vs 4.1% in 2018), although the gap has narrowed since the mid-2000s."

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-labour-market-an-overview/

 

By the way, you could also look by yourself for information.....

 

[OneMoreFarang]

14 minutes ago, vogie said:

"It's good that they take this serious."

 

The EU are taking it so serious they won't sit down and talk, perleeeaase.

The EU talked about this for months with the UK government. And both agreed to a deal. They called it the backstop.

And then the UK government didn't like anymore what they agreed to.

[nauseus]

33 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Sure you could do that. And maybe this is what will happen.

But do you really think things will be better in the UK outside of the EU and possibly without a deal?

Leaving the EU and maybe joining it later again will be a huge amount of work and huge cost.

And it is unlikely the EU will accept the UK again in a few years with all the special conditions which they have now.

 

Recently we have lots of posts here on TV about people who moved to Thailand only to find out a year or two later that was a bad decision for them. So they moved back again. I am sure that was a lot of work for many of those people. And I am sure most of them thought that in the hindsight they should have thought more in detail if they should move to Thailand.

The principle is the same with the UK and the EU. Yes, you can make a decision and in a few years another decision. But why not think about the initial decision a little harder and in detail and think again if it is a good decision. That is in the long run a lot smarter than leaving and maybe joining again.

Well a lot of people thought about the initial decision, of 1975, very hard, after 41 years, in detail, and decided it would be better to leave!

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The EU talked about this for months with the UK government. And both agreed to a deal. They called it the backstop.

And then the UK government didn't like anymore what they agreed to.

The UK parliament didn't like what May agreed to. So there is some hope left.

[nauseus]

34 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Thank you for replying. I couldn't be bothered.

You're welcome.

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The EU talked about this for months with the UK government. And both agreed to a deal. They called it the backstop.

And then the UK government didn't like anymore what they agreed to.

You were talking to the previous owners of the house, the new owners don't think the same as the old. Olly Robbins and T May were hardly good custodians of the old house, the new owners think a roof on our house would be nice.

So basically you are saying the UK should accept this terrible deal no matter how bad it is for us?

[kingdong]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe they are hiding in the dark forest together with all those unicorns.

10,000 comedians out of work,and one more farangs trying to be funny

[evadgib]

On topic & on form :

 

 

[kingdong]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe read it again. And if you don't understand how it is related then read it again, and again. ???? 

like the "remainers" who want a "peoples vote" then i suppose they don,t get what they want,why another election,again and again and again till they finally get their own way,typical eu tactic,also boys why not go for a change in the rules so all those who don,t vote votes can go to the remain party?

[ThomasThBKK]

1 minute ago, kingdong said:

like the "remainers" who want a "peoples vote" then i suppose they don,t get what they want,why another election,again and again and again till they finally get their own way,typical eu tactic,also boys why not go for a change in the rules so all those who don,t vote votes can go to the remain party?

That's how voting works, we do that regularly?

Either if something changed, or every x years.

 

You already voted to join the EU in 1975, why vote again, right?

[Slip]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

You were talking to the previous owners of the house, the new owners don't think the same as the old. Olly Robbins and T May were hardly good custodians of the old house, the new owners think a roof on our house would be nice.

So basically you are saying the UK should accept this terrible deal no matter how bad it is for us?

I've got news for you Vogie.  The Tories and Brexiteers don't own our house.  Perhaps we are happy without a roof if we have to starve to get it, especially as the new owners have used the situation to buy their own house at our expense, roof, garden and all, with a swimming pool just for them waiting in the wings.

[candide]

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

If both of you care to look back they were referring to this post by puipuitom who started the stirring as he often does, including the inevitable insults to the Brexiteers. 

 

8 hours ago, puipuitom said:
When you, British, want to buy or sell something in €uroland, you will be confronted with the currency exchange rate. Same for other countries. Ask the British pensionario's trying to survive in e.g. Thailand.

But.. for a Brexiteer, who is still in the times of Kitchener and Gordon, of course a gigantic step too far.

Also the wild-haired clown, as minister of foreign affairs, did not have the slightest idea about the British behavior in Burma, 19+20th century.

Acknowledged.

[bartender100]

Where can you see the EU's budget? i mean profit and loss, where the money comes from where it goes, do they produce a set of accounts yearly?

[7by7]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

But under No deal we get all those things (except a trade deal) immediately. Why pay 39 Billion to wait for them and risk (100-1 on) the EU not letting us out of the backstop?

You said it yourself; we don't get a trade deal.

 

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Some say yes, some say no to a soft border? Well Barnier and Junker said no hard border, Varadkar says no to a hard border, Johnson says no to a hard border, so please remind me who is insisting on it.

The only one saying 'No' to a hard border regardless is Johnson!

 

For example, from today: Brexit: Taoiseach Leo Varadkar says no deal can still be avoided

Quote

But he added that even if a no-deal outcome happens, negotiations would need to begin at some stage anyway to try to resolve the Irish border issue

 

As for the rest of your post, you should check your facts. Have you actually read the agreement; it appears not.

 

As for bringing up the subject of fishing rights in UK waters yet again; what do you \nd other Brexiteers, @nauseus being one, fail to understand about the fact that these have always been under the purview of the UK government and will continue to be so?

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

You were talking to the previous owners of the house, the new owners don't think the same as the old. Olly Robbins and T May were hardly good custodians of the old house, the new owners think a roof on our house would be nice.

So basically you are saying the UK should accept this terrible deal no matter how bad it is for us?

Hello New Owners.

Please present your ideas. Please make sure these ideas are realistic and compatible with our laws and regulations.

If you need more time to work this out please let us know. We are willing to give you more time when we see that you are working on a new plan.

 

But to make sure there is no misunderstanding: Please new owners, use the time you have. Make realistic proposals. Don't just sit there and demand that we think about a way how we could solve your problems. We won't do that.

[7by7]

6 hours ago, nauseus said:

Wrong. Under the WA the ECJ has power to prosecute the UK Gov for any breaches of EU Law for at least a further 4 years after the end of transition - potentially for much longer depending on progress with this "deal". The backstop period is not limited (until 2099) but forces the UK to accept EU rules in trade, competition, environmental, social and some tax policies. These policies could all be 'modified' to the UK's disadvantage during the transition period, when the UK has no say or veto and is defenceless against such changes. 

 

And the French are already trying for a fishing advantage using the backstop for leverage.

 

The EU might want a deal but it is obvious that it is not interested in a fair deal.

 I offer you the same advice I offered @JonnyF, but I doubt either of you will take it; preferring instead the usual spin and even lies of Cummings, Rees-Mogg et al.

[OneMoreFarang]

20 minutes ago, bartender100 said:

Where can you see the EU's budget? i mean profit and loss, where the money comes from where it goes, do they produce a set of accounts yearly?

Google it!

[bristolboy]

25 minutes ago, bartender100 said:

Where can you see the EU's budget? i mean profit and loss, where the money comes from where it goes, do they produce a set of accounts yearly?

Here ya go.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/budget/www/index-en.htm

 

[7by7]

3 hours ago, Joinaman said:

Care to back up this statement about how it will be worse for us

Any figures, facts, costings, losses, profits

Please include figures if we remain in the EU, 

 Figures aplenty have been produced; all dismissed as 'Project Fear' by Brexiteers because they cannot dispute the facts. So what's the [point?

[nauseus]

40 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

You said it yourself; we don't get a trade deal.

 

The only one saying 'No' to a hard border regardless is Johnson!

 

For example, from today: Brexit: Taoiseach Leo Varadkar says no deal can still be avoided

 

As for the rest of your post, you should check your facts. Have you actually read the agreement; it appears not.

 

As for bringing up the subject of fishing rights in UK waters yet again; what do you \nd other Brexiteers, @nauseus being one, fail to understand about the fact that these have always been under the purview of the UK government and will continue to be so?

 

Wrong again.

[nauseus]

39 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 I offer you the same advice I offered @JonnyF, but I doubt either of you will take it; preferring instead the usual spin and even lies of Cummings, Rees-Mogg et al.

So what is it? More lies?

[7by7]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Wrong again.

Yes, you are.

[7by7]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

So what is it? More lies?

More lies from Cummings and Rees-Mogg?

 

Now that they've achieved Boris's aim for him; only if he needs them.

[Basil B]

Brexit: EU 'refusing to negotiate', says Gove

Quote

Cabinet minister Michael Gove says the EU "seem to be refusing to negotiate with the UK" over a new Brexit deal.

Mr Gove, who is responsible for no-deal planning, said he was "deeply saddened" that Brussels was, in his words, saying "no, we don't want to talk".

It comes after the EU said UK demands to remove the Irish backstop from Theresa May's deal were unacceptable.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49251257

Fact is both sides have conditions that they will not concede and are not acceptable to the otherside, no point in talking until there is something new on the table.

 

In reality the UK is just reshuffling the pack.

[nauseus]

43 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Brexit: EU 'refusing to negotiate', says Gove

Fact is both sides have conditions that they will not concede and are not acceptable to the otherside, no point in talking until there is something new on the table.

 

In reality the UK is just reshuffling the pack.

First time we've been able to do anything.

[candide]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

Wrong again.

It seems you read the Sun.....As far as I understand, up to 12 miles fishing rights are subject to national regulation only. After that limit, it's subject to the common fisheries law.

When foreign fleets operate inside the 12 miles limit, it's either because they legally bought fishing rights according to the domestic regulation, or because of bilateral agreements such as between France and UK. The EU only defines fishing quotas for various species. Actually fishermen from both countries argue about Brexit for their advantage but it is without any legal ground, such as in the case of the scallop war.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/29/france-britain-scallop-war-brexit-channel-clashes-environment

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, bartender100 said:

Where can you see the EU's budget? i mean profit and loss, where the money comes from where it goes, do they produce a set of accounts yearly?

Maybe a short course "search on Internet" ?   What do you think of: "eu income + expenses" in Google ? 

 

EU expenditure and revenue 2014-2020 | European Commission  ( in this the UK committed themselves.. till of course.. ) 

ec.europa.eu › ... › Documents and figures › Documents TEST

Interactive chart showing the EU expenditure and revenue for the 2014-2020 period divided by programme, by year, and by country. Data from previous …

 

How the EU is funded | European Union - europa.eu

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/eu.../revenue-income_...

What are the main sources of EU revenue? ... sources of revenue;; is based on the principle that expenditure must be matched by revenue;; has in-built schemes …

 

Budget of the European Union - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union

The European Union has a budget to finance policies carried out at European level The ... This means that EU spending replaces national expenditure to a large extent. ... until after the budget year is over, and information about the final revenue and expenditure is available, and correction mechanisms have been applied.