Another Brexit thread, have a look anyway.

[ThaiPauly]

7 minutes ago, Surasak said:

The UK decided to leave and were willing to negotiate an agreement to that end. Mostly it was a reasonable deal but, the eu then decided to add a holding device in the shape of the Irish Backstop. Had it not been for this Backstop, the UK would at this point in time, not now be a member of the eu. This Backstop is the one thing which holds the UK to ransom, in that there is no way the UK can remove it without eu consent. Something they would never agree to, as it binds us indefinitely to ALL the eu rules. In plain language, the UK cannot ever leave. Is that fair? not in my book. It makes the eu nothing more than dictators.

So we can't leave anyway!!

 

So we may as well revoke article 50 now and get on with rebuilding our divided country!!

[oldhippy]

4 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Where did the boiled horse come from?

Very funny.

Obviously the EU does not have enough regulations and controls.

 

Now please answer: do you expect the EU to give up all it's rules & regulations at the border between Ireland and N Ireland?

[Tom59]

On 8/6/2019 at 7:55 PM, vogie said:

There is very little Boris can do if the EU won't renegotiate a deal, they have pushed us into a corner and they are not bothered who it hurts, including themselves.

The only people who have pushed the UK into a corner are Farage and the Tory party right-wing crazies!

 

[OneMoreFarang]

14 minutes ago, Surasak said:

The UK decided to leave and were willing to negotiate an agreement to that end. Mostly it was a reasonable deal but, the eu then decided to add a holding device in the shape of the Irish Backstop. Had it not been for this Backstop, the UK would at this point in time, not now be a member of the eu. This Backstop is the one thing which holds the UK to ransom, in that there is no way the UK can remove it without eu consent. Something they would never agree to, as it binds us indefinitely to ALL the eu rules. In plain language, the UK cannot ever leave. Is that fair? not in my book. It makes the eu nothing more than dictators.

And I thought Boris told us all there will be technological solutions for that. I am sure he will be able to have these solutions ready within a short time and the UK is free. Enjoy!

Or is there anybody out there who thinks that maybe Boris wasn't telling the truth? 

[evadgib]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

Very funny.

Obviously the EU does not have enough regulations and controls.

 

Now please answer: do you expect the EU to give up all it's rules & regulations at the border between Ireland and N Ireland?

I expect us to leave severing all ties on 31st October. I'll leave the small print to others but we have to be completely unshackled or that lot will never let go.

 

[vogie]

15 minutes ago, Tom59 said:

The only people who have pushed the UK into a corner are Farage and the Tory party right-wing crazies!

 

You mean the Tory Party and the Brexit Party who are the only parties who are still fighting to honour the result of the referendum. So you see if the EU are not willing to engage in any dialogue with the UK, by my reckoning we are being pushed into that corner, but when our backs are againgst the wall we have no option but to come out fighting, or die.

Edited August 8, 2019 by vogie

[oldhippy]

3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

I expect us to leave severing all ties on 31st October. I'll leave the small print to others but we have to be completely unshackled or that lot will never let go.

 

Typical for your fight against reality.

 

Again I ask: Can you reasonably expect the EU to give up their rules & regulations in order to avoid a border between Ireland and N Ireland?

If you cannot answer that question, maybe Vogie or CGSBlue can ?

 

PS. Referring to the conditions of trade between Ireland and N Ireland as "the small print you will leave to others" is intellectually dishonest.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

Typical for your fight against reality.

 

Again I ask: Can you reasonably expect the EU to give up their rules & regulations in order to avoid a border between Ireland and N Ireland?

If you cannot answer that question, maybe Vogie or CGSBlue can ?

 

PS. Referring to the conditions of trade between Ireland and N Ireland as "the small print you will leave to others" is intellectually dishonest.

If the EU wants a border, let them build and man it.

Problem solved.

[OneMoreFarang]

Just now, oldhippy said:

Can you reasonably expect

There is this word again "reasonably".

Brexiters don't do reason. They believe.

[evadgib]

4 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Typical for your fight against reality.

 

Again I ask: Can you reasonably expect the EU to give up their rules & regulations in order to avoid a border between Ireland and N Ireland?

If you cannot answer that question, maybe Vogie or CGSBlue can ?

 

PS. Referring to the conditions of trade between Ireland and N Ireland as "the small print you will leave to others" is intellectually dishonest.

It is nonetheless my opinion and you are entitled to it ????

Edited August 8, 2019 by evadgib

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Typical for your fight against reality.

 

Again I ask: Can you reasonably expect the EU to give up their rules & regulations in order to avoid a border between Ireland and N Ireland?

If you cannot answer that question, maybe Vogie or CGSBlue can ?

 

PS. Referring to the conditions of trade between Ireland and N Ireland as "the small print you will leave to others" is intellectually dishonest.

If vogie or CGSBlue want to answer I am sure we will, without prompting from you.

[oldhippy]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

If the EU wants a border, let them build and man it.

Problem solved.

Did the UK not sign the Good Friday agreements that ended the civil war (the "troubles" as you probably call it). Do they not include open borders between Ireland and N Ireland?

 

[oldhippy]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

If vogie or CGSBlue want to answer I am sure we will, without prompting from you.

Well, Vogie was online, but did not answer....

 

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Did the UK not sign the Good Friday agreements that ended the civil war (the "troubles" as you probably call it). Do they not include open borders between Ireland and N Ireland?

 

Don't care, nuke Ireland, it's worthless, should have handed it back in the GF agreement.

Give it to the EU, another deadbeat country for them to pump money into.

Edited August 8, 2019 by BritManToo

[oldhippy]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Don't care, nuke Ireland, it's worthless.

Give it to the EU, another deadbeat country for them to pump money into.

OK, now you're talking clear language, and not dodging my questions.

By the way, does that nuking include Northern Ireland?

[BritManToo]

Just now, oldhippy said:

OK, now you're talking clear language, and not dodging my questions.

By the way, does that nuking include Northern Ireland?

Yes.

[Golden Triangle]

Okay, I'll lay my cards on the table, I voted to remain, because it is what I firmly believed at the time to be in the best interest of the UK as whole,  I won't go into the ins & outs of my decision, but I firmly believe that the pigeons are now coming home to roost. And it ain't gonna be pretty for any of us.

 

At this moment in time I am completely peed off with our politicians and how they have kidnapped what the British (UK) people voted for, the majority voted to leave and as of today we are no closer to an amicable solution than we were over 3 years ago.

 

I want this travesty, farce, stupidity to be over once and for all so that we can all get back to living some form of normal life and not forever fretting over our future and standard of living which has deteriorated rapidly for the last few years.   

[lagavulin1]

On 8/6/2019 at 8:26 PM, BritManToo said:

I can see them surviving the loss of 30% of their funding.

They can't afford to let the UK leave.

I don't see anyone mentioning the "divorce bill".  Macron was very quick to identify it as "A Sovereign Debt" or was he panicking? Is the cash a joker which could be played now or is BoJo not going to play it in time. No politician me. 

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

I want this travesty, farce, stupidity to be over once and for all so that we can all get back to living some form of normal life and not forever fretting over our future and standard of living which has deteriorated rapidly for the last few years.   

I think the world's going downhill, nothing that can be done to stop it, unless you manage to die before it gets too bad.

End of times, Blade runner, Hunger Games here we come.

[oldhippy]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I think the world's going downhill, nothing that can be done to stop it, unless you manage to die before it gets too bad.

End of times, Blade runner, Hunger Games here we come.

Quote:  unless you manage to die before it gets too bad.

 

That's settled then. Move to Ireland before they nuke it (your words, not mine).

 

 

[CNXexpat]

Interesting interview in English language from a German news magazine.

https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2019-08/boris-johnson-fintan-otoole-brexit-nodeal

[abrahamzvi]

On 8/6/2019 at 7:55 PM, vogie said:

There is very little Boris can do if the EU won't renegotiate a deal, they have pushed us into a corner and they are not bothered who it hurts, including themselves.

The EU has made compromises when negotiating the deal with ex PM May. Why renegotiate again? They are prepared to try to put more flexible interpretations to the one or the other clause, but not renegotiate a deal, which had taken more than two years to negotiate. Purely theoretically, what happens if Johnson renegotiates a deal and it is rejected by Westminster? Should the EU negotiate a further deal?

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, abrahamzvi said:

The EU has made compromises when negotiating the deal with ex PM May. Why renegotiate again? They are prepared to try to put more flexible interpretations to the one or the other clause, but not renegotiate a deal, which had taken more than two years to negotiate. Purely theoretically, what happens if Johnson renegotiates a deal and it is rejected by Westminster? Should the EU negotiate a further deal?

May is history, she has gone, she is no more, her deal was never ratified by our parliament, so that deal is history as well.

"Why renegotiate again" you ask, because the deal brought back from Brussels wasn't worth the paper it was printed on, not to the UK anyway, I am sure the EU found it quite agreeable though.

"What happens if Boris renegotiates a deal and it is rejected by Westminster" I would have thought by the terms of Art50 we would be leaving the EU without a deal, which is now enshrined in UK law by the majority of the MPs triggering Art50.

But if by some miracle the EU sees sense and decides to offer a deal that would be agreeable to both sides I feel sure it would pass through parliament with ease, but maybe pigs will fly first.

 

[Peter Denis]

28 minutes ago, CNXexpat said:

Interesting interview in English language from a German news magazine.

https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2019-08/boris-johnson-fintan-otoole-brexit-nodeal

Yes indeed, very interesting interview with Fintan O'Toole on Boris Johnson and the whole Brexit mess.

As he states ' When things are too serious to be contemplated in sobriety, send in the clown.'

[jesimps]

On 8/6/2019 at 7:55 PM, vogie said:

There is very little Boris can do if the EU won't renegotiate a deal, they have pushed us into a corner and they are not bothered who it hurts, including themselves.

Correct. The people have voted to leave; parliament have rejected the May/EU deal three times; EU refuses to negotiate further, therefore the PM has no choice but to leave without a deal. If he doesn't, expect a Corbyn govt at the next GE. I'd rather take a further hit on the exchange rate than risk Corbyn turning the country into another Venezuela.

I personally think that the main cause of the falling pound is the uncertainty caused by the remainers continually delaying the process. If we just get on with it with the whole country behind us, the grossly undervalued pound will find its proper level.

[sawadee1947]

On 8/6/2019 at 2:55 PM, vogie said:

There is very little Boris can do if the EU won't renegotiate a deal, they have pushed us into a corner and they are not bothered who it hurts, including themselves.

It's the old game again: Don't blame yourself but others! ???? You learned a lot since staying in Thailand. 

However it was not EU who did the step for a divorce. It was UK. And BOTH parties negotiated to the well known agreement between your PM and ALL EU countries. If it hurts you now you can revoke the divorce. Nobody pushed you, nobody forced you but yourself by incompetent politicians. Fret it. ????

[hugh2121]

No deal= dramatic fall in the £ possibly to $1. Exports plummet and the economy goes into recession. Many jobs are lost as companies pull out of UK or go bust.

 

A good deal = £ recovers a lot of it's lost ground. Exports resume and the economy recovers most of it's lost ground. Jobs are safe.

 

Remain = £ recovers most, if not all it's lost value. Exports continue as before and economy has potential to expand.

Brexiteers are either too stupid to realise this or have loads of dosh offshore in foreign currencies so stand to make a killing as the £ drops further.

This IS the fault of the EU. The reason I say this is because in the early days of negotiation, UK wanted to discuss a trade deal alongside the financial negotiation. The EU refused, stating that they would only talk about trade AFTER UK had agreed to part with billions of £s. If a trade deal had been agreed at that time, subject to satisfactory financial arrangements there would now be no need for an Irish backstop and the deal already negotiated would have been passed. Job done.

[sawadee1947]

5 minutes ago, hugh2121 said:

No deal= dramatic fall in the £ possibly to $1. Exports plummet and the economy goes into recession. Many jobs are lost as companies pull out of UK or go bust.

 

A good deal = £ recovers a lot of it's lost ground. Exports resume and the economy recovers most of it's lost ground. Jobs are safe.

 

Remain = £ recovers most, if not all it's lost value. Exports continue as before and economy has potential to expand.

Brexiteers are either too stupid to realise this or have loads of dosh offshore in foreign currencies so stand to make a killing as the £ drops further.

This IS the fault of the EU. The reason I say this is because in the early days of negotiation, UK wanted to discuss a trade deal alongside the financial negotiation. The EU refused, stating that they would only talk about trade AFTER UK had agreed to part with billions of £s. If a trade deal had been agreed at that time, subject to satisfactory financial arrangements there would now be no need for an Irish backstop and the deal already negotiated would have been passed. Job done.

Does it help you to mention what did NOT happen in the past? 

Who cares? 

Face the reality, man! 

[oldhippy]

17 minutes ago, hugh2121 said:

No deal= dramatic fall in the £ possibly to $1. Exports plummet and the economy goes into recession. Many jobs are lost as companies pull out of UK or go bust.

 

A good deal = £ recovers a lot of it's lost ground. Exports resume and the economy recovers most of it's lost ground. Jobs are safe.

 

Remain = £ recovers most, if not all it's lost value. Exports continue as before and economy has potential to expand.

Brexiteers are either too stupid to realise this or have loads of dosh offshore in foreign currencies so stand to make a killing as the £ drops further.

This IS the fault of the EU. The reason I say this is because in the early days of negotiation, UK wanted to discuss a trade deal alongside the financial negotiation. The EU refused, stating that they would only talk about trade AFTER UK had agreed to part with billions of £s. If a trade deal had been agreed at that time, subject to satisfactory financial arrangements there would now be no need for an Irish backstop and the deal already negotiated would have been passed. Job done.

It is not possible for Northern Ireland to have

1/ no economic border with Britain

AND

2/ no economic border with Ireland and the EU

 

The brexiteers should have thought of that before.

 

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

It is not possible

Define "possible". I'd have thought it eminently "possible" because no such border currently exists. It's entirely "possible" for the UK government to determine that goods coming into or leaving Britain at any land port of entry need not be inspected or be subject to customs inspection. It would then be up to the Irish or the French to determine what they will do to British goods leaving the UK and arriving in their country. I recall reading an article in a reputable business journal quite recently stating that very point (and no, I can't remember where)