Meeting with immigration about TM30 and the latest news about the petition

[Vacuum]

5 hours ago, lkv said:

if they knock at the door (and they have in some places in Bangkok)

If they already know where you live, what's the point in reporting?

[lkv]

12 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

How can you get arrested for something that isn't a farangs responsibility to do? 

Yeah , says: House owners, heads of household, landlords.

 

Why do people pay the fine at Immigration when their extension is due and not the landlord?

 

Same principle.

Edited August 12, 2019 by lkv

[lkv]

4 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

If they already know where you live, what's the point in reporting?

Ah no, they don't. They just come at the condo and check every foreigner.

[DrJack54]

13 minutes ago, lkv said:

Yeah , says: House owners, heads of household, landlords.

 

Why do people pay the fine at Immigration when their extension is due and not the landlord?

 

Same principle.

Why did you leave out "or possessor"

[Salerno]

Didn't fit the narrative 

[lkv]

7 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Why did you leave out "or possessor"

They left it out on the Immigration poster at the meeting, not me. Maybe they equal head of household with possessor?

Edited August 12, 2019 by lkv
Spelling

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, lkv said:

They left it out on the Immigration poster at the meeting, not me. Maybe they equal head of household with posessor?

Yes thats right,

 

Section 4 of the immigration act defines housemaster.

 

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

[lkv]

16 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes thats right,

 

Section 4 of the immigration act defines housemaster.

 

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

Ok so let's just translate then: 

 

If alien surrenders, alien is fined.

If alien is arrested and prosecuted, alien is fined more.

 

No more Thai landlord.

 

Or they fine whoever they can catch?

 

Did I get this right?

 

The more I think about this, the more I think they were running short on the Immigration budget, and had to come up with solutions to top up.

Edited August 12, 2019 by lkv

[DrJack54]

10 minutes ago, lkv said:

Ok so let's just translate then: 

 

If alien surrenders, alien is fined.

If alien is arrested and prosecuted, alien is fined more.

 

No more Thai landlord.

 

Or they fine whoever they can catch?

 

Did I get this right?

 

The more I think about this, the more I think they were running short on the Immigration budget, and had to come up with solutions to top up.

Think your getting the hang of it.

Bottom line is someone for some imm offices sometimes for both domestic and international travel and some for international only travel need to submit tm30. 

However that can change at any given time. 

Of course some imm offices require nothing. Yet

Edited August 12, 2019 by DrJack54

[Basch]

Apologies if this has been explained before but I have only found people discussing about landlords. 

 

What if you live with your wife in the house that belongs to her? 

 

Second question, I travel a lot this year so I won't have to do any 90 days reports at all up until next year's 1 year extension so I won't have to do any of this nonsense except maybe the last time I return to Thailand before extending my non-O, correct? 

 

Thanks 

[lkv]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

Bottom line is someone for some imm offices sometimes for both domestic and international travel and some for international only travel need to submit tm30. 

However that can change at any given time. 

Of course some imm offices require nothing. Yet

Thank you for clarifying it for me. Now I get it ????

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, Basch said:

Apologies if this has been explained before but I have only found people discussing about landlords. 

 

What if you live with your wife in the house that belongs to her? 

 

Second question, I travel a lot this year so I won't have to do any 90 days reports at all up until next year's 1 year extension so I won't have to do any of this nonsense except maybe the last time I return to Thailand before extending my non-O, correct? 

 

Thanks 

That is exactly my situation and exactly what I intend to do. However file by post takes currently 3 weeks for reply (receipt) and I'm too stupid to file online. However many reports of still waiting for passwords.

A proper balls up

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, Basch said:

Apologies if this has been explained before but I have only found people discussing about landlords. 

 

What if you live with your wife in the house that belongs to her? 

 

Second question, I travel a lot this year so I won't have to do any 90 days reports at all up until next year's 1 year extension so I won't have to do any of this nonsense except maybe the last time I return to Thailand before extending my non-O, correct? 

 

Thanks 

The term "landlord" has been added to the commentary by expats, its not used in the immigration act etc.

 

Officially from immigration its the owner, housemaster or possessor must report. (That is the name of a TM30 form)

 

The immigration act defines house master anyone with anything to do with the property.

 

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

That pretty much covers 99% of anybody not staying in a hotel. 

 

your wife is the owner, you and your wife would be considered housemasters and possessor, take your pick.

 

 

[lkv]

6 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

your wife is the owner, you and your wife would be considered housemasters and possessor, take your pick.

Ok so seriously now. In the case of a tenant vs landlord, who takes the pick? It's a shared responsability? One keeps blaming the other and we play with semantics?

Edited August 12, 2019 by lkv

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, lkv said:

Ok so seriously now. In the case of a tenant vs landlord, who takes the pick? It'a a shared responsability you're saying? One keeps blaming the other and we play with semantics?

Have a look at a TM30 form, nowhere on the form do you say which one you are, you simply sign the form as owner, housemaster or possessor (you dont state which one you are, you just sign the form).

 

 

Most immigration offices dont care less who they get a TM30 from, or who they fine, as per the immigration act, they define anyone as housemaster.

[holy cow cm]

15 hours ago, drbeach said:

I too have been going there for years, even lived there for a while. You're right, enforcement may vary. Even if it's not currently being enforced in your experience don't expect that to remain so forever. Things are not only going the other way in Thailand but also in Cambodia. Vietnam is still a Communist country so I wouldn't be surprised if they enforced the law more rigorously again in the future.

If you look at HCMC 10 years ago compared to today, it is totally different in many ways for direction. Say like District 1. So dangerous and scary before like the wild west, but super fun. Now pretty safe as went from red light slum to high society area for the most part, and now not as fun but one still has freedom in the areas especially like in the backpackers. I don't think much will change as they want the tourists more than Thailand now as realize what tourists and expats bring to their table. Cambodia can go ahead and do what they want. They have signed their demise by partnering with the Chinese. Thailand now seems to have the same leadership view as Cambodia. Almost identical.

Edited August 12, 2019 by holy cow cm

[Basch]

37 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Have a look at a TM30 form, nowhere on the form do you say which one you are, you simply sign the form as owner, housemaster or possessor (you dont state which one you are, you just sign the form).

 

 

Most immigration offices dont care less who they get a TM30 from, or who they fine, as per the immigration act, they define anyone as housemaster.

OK thanks, so in theory all I need to do is the tm30, no additional documents provided by the wife necessary? I was kind of expecting she'd have to come along with house registration, chanods and what not... 

[Peterw42]

6 minutes ago, Basch said:

OK thanks, so in theory all I need to do is the tm30, no additional documents provided by the wife necessary? I was kind of expecting she'd have to come along with house registration, chanods and what not... 

Depends on the office, the busy ones with a 2-3 hour queue dont usually care less as they are trying to process 200 people.

For an initial report, bluebook and ID would probably be a good idea. A thai person submitting there is probably an assumption that they are owner/housemaster.

its usually a document to identify the property and to show an association (otherwise you could do reports for a property down the road), some offices would probably accept a phone bill

Edited August 12, 2019 by Peterw42

[Raymonddiaz]

On 8/8/2019 at 12:47 PM, DrTuner said:

I think I mentioned before westeners are just collateral damage. AirBnB, Burmese and Indians. Thank them.

Conquer by dividing foreigners ......They use other foreign nationals to make you feel good...That's an old system but it is still working... Always think outside the box

[tassieman]

hmmn, the confusion continues (for this bunny at least!) lol... so any reassurance/clarification welcome ???? (ridicule and sarcasm not hahaha).

 

As I am reading this thread, the main 'target' of the TM30 are foreigners more or less living long term or permanently in Thailand and NOT short(er) term tourists [I am on an METV and been here for 4 weeks and about to head out to Cambodia]. Hopefully there won't be any issue when I return to Thailand in a few weeks time re-TM30 etc., and i will have a hotel booked in advance (already have a return flight to Oz) + a fistful of $$ lol.

 

I just asked my hotel reception in BKK about their reporting and they said they don't systematically file daily logs of foreign visitors/tourists but keep them in case the authorities request them.... and, I am guessing this would be usually the case (perhaps not for the larger hotels?) but certainly for smaller resorts in the provinces where I have stayed and where more often than not no I.D is requested possibly/probably cos I am travelling with my Thai partner.  

 

The catch to the above (if relatively right) is when one (on a tourist visa) stays privately (in my case at my partner's residence)....again, if I am reading the whole TM30 thing correctly, then in these cases one would have to register in 24 hours at this private address. cheers, TM

 

[schlemmi]

2 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Have a look at a TM30 form, nowhere on the form do you say which one you are, you simply sign the form as owner, housemaster or possessor (you dont state which one you are, you just sign the form).

 

 

Most immigration offices dont care less who they get a TM30 from, or who they fine, as per the immigration act, they define anyone as housemaster.

Look to the thai text. It says the person with status Housemaster.

This is in each and every case the person indicated as housemaster in the housebook. If this house is rented out to another person than all the persons are registered im the actual  housebook have to move out of the book into the book where they stay now.

Than the tenant can let the Ampoe add his name in the housebook as status housemaster.

 

According to the act regulating the housebook stuff: If the housmaster is not reachable than the person taking care of the house is the housemaster.

 

[Peterw42]

21 minutes ago, schlemmi said:

Look to the thai text. It says the person with status Housemaster.

This is in each and every case the person indicated as housemaster in the housebook. If this house is rented out to another person than all the persons are registered im the actual  housebook have to move out of the book into the book where they stay now.

Than the tenant can let the Ampoe add his name in the housebook as status housemaster.

 

According to the act regulating the housebook stuff: If the housmaster is not reachable than the person taking care of the house is the housemaster.

 

Housemaster is defined in the immigration act, its not in "each and every case" the person listed in the blue book. its more often then not someone who isnt the housemaster in the bluebook, or even entered in the blue book.

 

“House Master” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

I regularly do TM30s for 3 properties, where there is no housemaster in the blue book, the bluebook is blank.

 

 

[seancbk]

Can you report your own address when you return home from a trip overseas or to another province?   

Or does your landlord have to do it?

I've not had any contact with my landlord for almost 7 years and have no desire to instigate contact with her now, so there is no way she's going to be submitting any TM.30 on my behalf.

 

 

[schlemmi]

31 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Housemaster is defined in the immigration act, its not in "each and every case" the person listed in the blue book. its more often then not someone who isnt the housemaster in the bluebook, or even entered in the blue book.

 

“House Master” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

I regularly do TM30s for 3 properties, where there is no housemaster in the blue book, the bluebook is blank.

 

 

The housemaster definition in art. 4 immi act is a 100% copy of the definition of housemaster in the "people registration act". 

Additionally, at the end of this definition it says "... according to the people registration act."

 

That is: Housemaster is exactly that what is defined im the "people registration act." 

 

This "people registration act" additionaly defines who the housemaster is if there is no registerd housemaster, or the registerd housemaster is away and no longer reachable.

 

As in your case where is no housemaster in the blue book it could be one  in the yellow book. If not, than the person taking care of the house counts as housemaster.

 

If the houses are rented out and in the case there is no registered housemaster or the housmaster is no longer reachable, then the renter has the roole as housemaster.

 

Sourcees:

 พระราชบัญญัติคนเข้าเมือ  (immigration act)

พระราชบัญญัติการทะเบียนราษฎร (people registratipn act)

[IvorBiggun2]

3 minutes ago, seancbk said:

Or does your landlord have to do it?

Now that's a good question cuz without her signature on the TM30 it cannot be that she has submitted it. And technically that is the person who should.

[Max69xl]

18 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Not sure that works any more. In March some of our teachers were categorically told by Immigration at Chaengwattana (Section N) that a new TM30 only had to be done when returning from abroad. It now seems they have changed their mind, and one has to be submitted within 24hours of returning from another Thai province.

Who knows what to believe?!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

I am staying in Jomtien,Pattaya. In March, a high ranked immigration officer went on radio (a local station) talking about the TM30-report. He emphasized that at Chonburi Immigration we don't need to submit a new TM30 when coming back to same address after leaving the province. We just wait for next 90-days report.

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, schlemmi said:

The housemaster definition in art. 4 immi act is a 100% copy of the definition of housemaster in the "people registration act". 

Additionally, at the end of this definition it says "... according to the people registration act."

 

That is: Housemaster is exactly that what is defined im the "people registration act." 

 

This "people registration act" additionaly defines who the housemaster is if there is no registerd housemaster, or the registerd housemaster is away and no longer reachable.

 

As in your case where is no housemaster in the blue book it could be one  in the yellow book. If not, than the person taking care of the house counts as housemaster.

 

If the houses are rented out and in the case there is no registered housemaster or the housmaster is no longer reachable, then the renter has the roole as housemaster.

 

Sourcees:

 พระราชบัญญัติคนเข้าเมือ  (immigration act)

พระราชบัญญัติการทะเบียนราษฎร (people registratipn act)

Yes, that is correct, that is why I corrected your statement:

 

"the person with status Housemaster.

This is in each and every case the person indicated as housemaster in the housebook."

 

Not sure why you keep posting in Thai, there is actually a forum rule that asks not to unless its the language forum. 

[Max69xl]

15 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

No, 2,000

 

If you do then why do you do it 45 before the actual date? Because you cannot prepare for the unexpected. None of us can forecast immigrations next move.

 

 

I always apply for my 1-year extension 30 days before,then there's time "if" a new rule pops up.

[Peterw42]

18 minutes ago, seancbk said:

Can you report your own address when you return home from a trip overseas or to another province?   

Or does your landlord have to do it?

I've not had any contact with my landlord for almost 7 years and have no desire to instigate contact with her now, so there is no way she's going to be submitting any TM.30 on my behalf.

 

 

There is no mention of landlord in any TM30 rules (that has been added by posters), Its owner, housemaster or possessor does the report, as a long term tenant you are housemaster/possessor.

[schlemmi]

12 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes, that is correct, that is why I corrected your statement:

 

"the person with status Housemaster.

This is in each and every case the person indicated as housemaster in the housebook."

 

Not sure why you keep posting in Thai, there is actually a forum rule that asks not to unless its the language forum. 

I post some thai words because we are talking about thai law. This law is written in thai as the only  language.

All translations are totally useless in the case you have to claryfy e.g. at the court. If you want to find the exact reading of the law, then it could be helpfull if you have a few thai words you may google for.

 

And if you read the original thai versions of both the immi act and the people registration act then you will understand that if there is a hosemaster registered in the records of the ampoe and this person is reachable, that only this perspn is the housemaster in the point of view of the law. Both the immi law and other laws where a housemaster plays a roole.

Edited August 12, 2019 by schlemmi
Typo and additional text at the end.