Meeting with immigration about TM30 and the latest news about the petition

[SantiSuk]

20 hours ago, Xaos said:

The dumbest part of it for me as a person with an year extension is that u have to report 24h in advance to immigration if u going to other province. Like I want travel for leisure Samui Krabi Phuket or whatever and have to report this. If Im correct. 

Is this correct? I had never heard of a foreigner being required to notify immigration in advance that they intend to travel (thought the reporting was always when you return and even then it's supposed to be by the landlord/owner, not the foreigner). But now I seem to recall some reference to foreigners in some provinces being required to notify police in advance of travel to another province. Can anyone clarify?

 

Absolutely crazy if true, as reported by the senior Korat officer, that offices are permitted to adopt their own practices. We all know that is the case but I never expected it would be recognised as an officially sanctioned approach to implementing law! Why one might ask? Confusion, corruption and fines when local office practice changes is the answer that trips off the tongue and is clearly a risk for all of us except in provinces that implement every last element of reporting already.

 

I shouldn't personally be pressing this line. My own province is completely relaxed about all this reporting as it impacts the foreigner personally; registering one's address when you first arrive is all that the foreigner needs to do in our province (thereafter filing 90 Day reports) and thereafter they do not require owners/landlords to file TM30s for foreigners returning to their permanent address. [Of course the hotel etc owners TM30 obligations are enforced].

[Soundspeed]

This morning I attended Chiang mai Immigration TM30 desk. An official sign clearly posted on the back of the monitor where I sat said that a TM30 report needs to be submitted if the foreigner living at the address returns after leaving the country. We had spent 5 days traveling in Kanchanaburi a month ago so I expected that to come up on their screens. It either didn't or more likely was ignored.

So as I understand it from this morning : In CNX your TM 30 is required if you re enter the country and that is it. It is currently not required if you travel locally.

Both the officers working at the counter repeated the message on the posted sign to me and another Farang So as far as I am concerned that will apply unless notified otherwise by the Immig Dept.

Thank you to Isaanlawyers for his excellent work. 

 

[Thingamabob]

In over 30 years I have never had any problems with Thai Immigration. You are stirring up trouble for no good reason.

[SuwadeeS]

Actually, this TM30 is a discrimination of foreigners.

Thai citizen are only registered at any housebook. Thats it.

 

E.g. the can move around, rent a flat or condo without any requirement

to register at the district office.

 

[SantiSuk]

16 hours ago, KhunFred said:

If a tenant files for a re-entry permit, that obviously means he is going to leave Thailand for some period of time. Why is it necessary to report upon returning? All the information is included in the application for a re-entry permit. This is little more than harassment.

 

Signalling intent to act is not what a bureaucrat or law enforcement wants. They want to know what happened in fact!

Edited August 9, 2019 by SantiSuk

[Sumarianson]

I hope the efforts result in a positive outcome for us all. I offer my thanks to you for your efforts. As a bolster to this, many of my Thai friends see the TM30 as disruptive and an unnessary chore. However, they were not inclined to provide a signature on the petition. Their reason eludes me but I can guess at it. I agree with Mavideol that something drastic has to be done about the 800K in the bank business. I am currently planning to leave Thailand and a daughter here as I cannot contend with the measures. I have my own bought and paid for condo and new car all of which I am selling to move home. Strictly because of the financial burden of these new rules. My money is in the UK and the £ has lost over 10 baht for every £ in the last few years ( I have been here 7 years) this represents a massive reduction in my finances. The new rules mean that you have to transfer enough money to survive for the period that the 800K or 400K cannot be touched. It is a rediculous requirement. It would be better if after a period of stay more than say 5 years that you can use a purchased condo or a new car as collateral. Along with showing long standing sufficient funds in a foreign bank account to cover the next year of extension. This would eliminate those using money that is not theirs to gain an extension and relieve those of us who come here to live with our families honestly and in full compliance with the law. 

These new laws mean that I cannot spend as much in Thailand with my family because of the extra burden and the exchange rate which is now pitiful. I have already warned my family of this. Change this before it is too late and you loose your expats.

[lookchine]

I appreciate what you have done, and I hope that many expats will sign this petition

[SantiSuk]

11 hours ago, Martyp said:

This is the text from Richard Barrow’s Facebook post

 

”This evening, I attended an event at the India-Thai Chamber of Commerce to listen to a talk about TM30 and other Immigration issues affecting expats in #Thailand. Immigration officials from Chaengwattana made it clear tonight that landlords have to fill in TM30 each and every time a foreigner returns to their residence after visiting another province for more than 24 hours. Not just when they return from abroad. This is obviously bad news for all expats residing in Bangkok. I will type up a full report on my blog in the morning. In the meantime, please post as comments your own personal experiences of TM30 stating which Immigration office. I will then feature the best on my blog. Next week I’m attending another chamber of commerce event about TM30. I’ve also been invited to speak at the Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand. This is starting to snowball and hopefully we can put enough pressure to make some changes.”

 

 

Another good reason not to live within the purview of Chaeng Wattana. At least a handful of provinces that I have seen reported on ThaiV go nowhere near this level of bollux.

[Salerno]

12 minutes ago, SantiSuk said:

Is this correct?

No

 

[natway09]

Am I right in saying this conversation happened in Korat ?

They do not make any decisions up there, you would need to get in the Commissioners 

ear in Bangkok.

Although I am really unaffected by this appreciate the effort on the TM30.

Stick with that one subject & do no get involved in the 800,000 Bht situation.

Personally think that the money thing is justified

[jackdd]

22 minutes ago, SantiSuk said:

Is this correct?

No, this is wrong.

[SantiSuk]

3 hours ago, limbos said:

I've been pointed out the TM30 about 5 years by Surat Thani immigration and my wife who is the 'landlord' with whom I live together, is registered since 5 years on this site. Don't think updated the page since those 5 years.
Lost interest after I visited immigration to tell them I got back from an overseas trip. They initially had no idea what I was going on about and eventually told me it was not needed.

Add Surat Thani to the list of provinces where we should all be considering living! Sisaket and reportedly Chaiyaphum are the same. Any more offers (where you have personally checked or have a high degree of confidence form someone else) of farang-friendly provinces?
 

Criteria - no TM30 required to be filed by the owner/landlord (or in default of that by the foreigner) beyond the initial registration when the foreigner first moves in, even if the foreigner returns from nights spent away in another province or country (or same province*)

 

*Yes - I know of at least one province where your landlord/owner has to file, even if you stay in a hotel (but not at a friend's/relative's house) down the road in your own province.

[Iforbach]

Thank u for your time and effort well done ????

[The Preacher]

22 hours ago, DrTuner said:

I think I mentioned before westeners are just collateral damage. AirBnB, Burmese and Indians. Thank them.

White not just have a blanket exemption for white people?

[SantiSuk]

3 hours ago, wobalt said:

My wife which is the owner of the house has permanent residency in Germany. Last time she visited Thailand in 2000. apps are not available here and she has no Thai sim. How can they fine get?


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

If the foreigner suspects that the landlord/owner will not file a TM30 in provinces where it is required I believe (from reading lots of threads) that the responsibility shifts onto the foreigner to report. Best to confirm with your local Immigration Office.

Edited August 9, 2019 by SantiSuk

[SantiSuk]

1 hour ago, stephehr said:

I fell asleep reading this long document about nothing

Start saving for your fine then - could be up to 2,000 baht depending on province, office practice or which side an Immi officer got put of bed one morning.

 

I don't discount that quite a few falang will prefer to do nothing and pay a fine rather than get informed. Up to you!

[aussieinphuket]

excellent work .... thank you ...

[Martyp]

Here is an interesting note reported by Richard Barrow at last nights meeting:

 

Immigration officials said tonight that if you have a minimum of a three year rental contract, you can then get a special benefit of not having to do a TM30 again for three years

[fersken]

Thanks, much appreciated ???????? 1 app for all forms will clearly make it easier, provided it works and that all immigration offices in the country use it, and I think that will be a problem, they run completely according to their own rules, and  not from the headquarters in Bangkok.  Here in Nong Khai, where I live, I can't report 90 days online, I've tried several times and asked why, and only get one answer, can't be done, luckily I don't live far from immigration, so I have  abandoned to do more about it.  So my conclusion is that if they get it up and running, someone will benefit from it, others will not.

Have a nice day ????????

[Mac98]

The landlord must report your stay. My landlord lives 800km away, when he isn't in Australia. Now what? And the requirement to report within 24 hours when arriving from out country can be a problem after 40 hours of sleepless travel, counting highway travel and layovers, and arriving to residence at 5 a.m. You really don't have anywhere near 24 hours to drag your exhausted butt to Immigration.

[SantiSuk]

My best guess is that when that greedy/corrupt barsteward visa agent community wake up to the emerging business opportunity you'll be able to phone them up with your credit card and they'll do it for you!

 

Being more practical - check with your immi office before hanging yourself. Some don't require such TM30 reporting and some don't insist on 24 hour reporting (can be within 7 days). Maybe they'll show you how to do it online. Maybe you can get a friend/partner to do it for you.

Edited August 9, 2019 by SantiSuk

[jackdd]

5 minutes ago, Mac98 said:

The landlord must report your stay. My landlord lives 800km away, when he isn't in Australia. Now what? And the requirement to report within 24 hours when arriving from out country can be a problem after 40 hours of sleepless travel, counting highway travel and layovers, and arriving to residence at 5 a.m. You really don't have anywhere near 24 hours to drag your exhausted butt to Immigration.

The law basically says landlord or possessor has to report. If he wants to make sure he is in compliance with the law in case you don't report yourself and he can't do it by himself, then he has to employ somebody to file the TM30 for him.

They don't know if you arrived 5am or 5pm, so you could just do it the next day.

[DrPhibes]

40 minutes ago, Sumarianson said:

I hope the efforts result in a positive outcome for us all. I offer my thanks to you for your efforts. As a bolster to this, many of my Thai friends see the TM30 as disruptive and an unnessary chore. However, they were not inclined to provide a signature on the petition. Their reason eludes me but I can guess at it. I agree with Mavideol that something drastic has to be done about the 800K in the bank business. I am currently planning to leave Thailand and a daughter here as I cannot contend with the measures. I have my own bought and paid for condo and new car all of which I am selling to move home. Strictly because of the financial burden of these new rules. My money is in the UK and the £ has lost over 10 baht for every £ in the last few years ( I have been here 7 years) this represents a massive reduction in my finances. The new rules mean that you have to transfer enough money to survive for the period that the 800K or 400K cannot be touched. It is a rediculous requirement. It would be better if after a period of stay more than say 5 years that you can use a purchased condo or a new car as collateral. Along with showing long standing sufficient funds in a foreign bank account to cover the next year of extension. This would eliminate those using money that is not theirs to gain an extension and relieve those of us who come here to live with our families honestly and in full compliance with the law. 

These new laws mean that I cannot spend as much in Thailand with my family because of the extra burden and the exchange rate which is now pitiful. I have already warned my family of this. Change this before it is too late and you loose your expats.

The reason for not signing is a concern that you are handing over a list of "trouble makers" to the government.  I would sign in a heartbeat if there was a level of anonymity.

[geoffrobbo]

Thanks for all your work on this issue.

 

[wobalt]

If the foreigner suspects that the landlord/owner will no file a TM30 in provinces where it is required I believe (from reading lots of threads) that the responsibility shifts onto the foreigner to report. Best to confirm with your local Immigration Office.

Hm.. assuming I have a meeting somewhere in Isaan ,on the way back to BKK i decide to stay overnight in the house..nobody knows I am there.
I have only with a 90 days visa, not a long term extension., i assume I have not to file a TM30. nobody knows I was there, when I arrive at night and leave early in the morning. There is no renting contract etc in place, as the house is in his raw form. I have done like this for many years.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Peter Denis]

35 minutes ago, Sumarianson said:

I hope the efforts result in a positive outcome for us all. I offer my thanks to you for your efforts. As a bolster to this, many of my Thai friends see the TM30 as disruptive and an unnessary chore. However, they were not inclined to provide a signature on the petition. Their reason eludes me but I can guess at it. I agree with Mavideol that something drastic has to be done about the 800K in the bank business. I am currently planning to leave Thailand and a daughter here as I cannot contend with the measures. I have my own bought and paid for condo and new car all of which I am selling to move home. Strictly because of the financial burden of these new rules. My money is in the UK and the £ has lost over 10 baht for every £ in the last few years ( I have been here 7 years) this represents a massive reduction in my finances. The new rules mean that you have to transfer enough money to survive for the period that the 800K or 400K cannot be touched. It is a rediculous requirement. It would be better if after a period of stay more than say 5 years that you can use a purchased condo or a new car as collateral. Along with showing long standing sufficient funds in a foreign bank account to cover the next year of extension. This would eliminate those using money that is not theirs to gain an extension and relieve those of us who come here to live with our families honestly and in full compliance with the law. 

These new laws mean that I cannot spend as much in Thailand with my family because of the extra burden and the exchange rate which is now pitiful. I have already warned my family of this. Change this before it is too late and you loose your expats.

That's a very pittyful situation you are in: having to leave your loved ones because of the enforced 400K-800K money in the bank requirement.

Are there really no other options for you?  Three suggestions:

1. When you are +50 years of age, you could consider when back in UK to apply for a Non-Imm OA visa, which would allow you to stay up to 2 years in Thailand before the 400K-800K requirement would once again kick in.

Note: For that Visa application in UK you need to demonstrate that you have sufficient funds.  However, temporarily borrowing 800K in GBP from family/friends till application is approved would be possible.

2. There are several posts on this Forum claiming that it is still possible to make use of an agent to circumvent the 400K-800K requirement.  I am not recommending that but it might be a matter of last resort.

3. Is it not possible to get a mortgage on the condo you own, and use that money for meeting the 400K-800K requirement?

[August2016]

Hello,

 

I am currently having this trouble with my landlord regarding of completing the TM30 and it is preventing my spouse from getting they work permit, what do we do?

[Peter Denis]

3 minutes ago, wobalt said:

Hm.. assuming I have a meeting somewhere in Isaan ,on the way back to BKK i decide to stay overnight in the house..nobody knows I am there.
I have only with a 90 days visa, not a long term extension., i assume I have not to file a TM30. nobody knows I was there, when I arrive at night and leave early in the morning. There is no renting contract etc in place, as the house is in his raw form. I have done like this for many years.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

When the location you are staying (be it a Hotel, guesthouse or friend's place) does not ask for your passport, they will not be able to do the TM-30 reporting.  Which means you do not have to do any TM-30 reporting on your return home too, because it will not be known that you departed/returned.

[Fairynuff]

If this fiasco was genuinely aimed at the Asian foreigners abusing the system then it would be very simple for immigration not to enforce it for western foreigners. But they are vigorously enforcing it, therefore to say we are not really the reason for this is absolute nonsense.

[DrTuner]

33 minutes ago, The Preacher said:

White not just have a blanket exemption for white people?

Apart from the usual racist hymns from the internet, it would also be against UN's declaration of human rights, which Thailand is signatory of. Not that they're conforming to those anyway. 

 

The correct way to control immigration inflows is before they come in, with the visa policy. TM30 is just a symptom of Thai immigration letting foreigners stay too long with extended temporary back to back permits. The cure is simple and it is to open up the PR process and limit the number of temporary extensions. Naturally this would mean some would not qualify and would have to move out. That is the result of Thai greed, making up temporary stay categories and extending indefinitely to squeeze the money out of temp stayers, while creating the illusion this would go on forever. Should be limited to 4y max, after which it should be mandatory to leave or apply for PR.