Meeting with immigration about TM30 and the latest news about the petition

[gunderhill]

22 hours ago, d2b2 said:

Your efforts are appreciated ????

Indeed , unlike some moaning whining "Im alright Jack replies" over this. I don't have to do a TM30  but the whole things is an antiquated farce.

[emptypockets]

2 hours ago, Sunderland said:

Thank you for your effort to get more information out of immigration. 

 

My wife would love to ask the immigration officials why she has been waiting more than 5 weeks for a password to do the TM30 reporting online. Yes, she could and will ultimately have to go to immigration, but imagine doing that with a screaming 2-month old baby and a 2-year old toddler. I kind of wish she would do that just to create a headache for the immigration officers.

Also, how many landlords have been visited and money collected from them? I expect the answer is close to zero. It is highly convenient for immigration officers to extract money - like thieves - from foreigners who are unable to process extensions without a TM30 receipt. 

Anyway, thank you again for your effort to communicate with immigration. 

  

You can't take care of the kids while she does it? 

[AntipodeanThai]

An outstanding effort and all congratulations and strength to your arm for the positive and correct manner in which you are handling this matter. Instead of the full frontal approach that a few here seem to adopt, it gets no where in just about any country especially here. You have obviously put a lot of pro bono time effort, thought, expertise and skill into all of this in a sensible proper way and approach. The entire expat community should be and I am sure the sensible, intelligent thinking ones amongst us, who want to dote right things intros country are very indebted to you for all the efforts and the correct way you are handling the matter. Personally, I had a nightmare experience with a Landlord and a TM30 when she basically refused to do it then obfuscated in providing the information needed and refused to acknowledge any comings and goings I had. What, with all payments such as rent had to be made in cash she even insisted on utilities in her name, you can guess why she didn't want a lodgement. The word taxation comes to mind. So obviously she didn't want the rental to me registered anywhere with the authorities. It took a huge amount of time and angst to get to a situation where I could spend a couple of days travelling from centre BKK, negotiating at CW and coping a not small fine for all my efforts in trying to respect Thai Laws as we all should do and most want to. So as said "all strength to your arm" and thank you from me for all the efforts you are putting in and the way you are handling the matter and I'm sure the vast majority of the Expat community feel the same. We are all indeed very indebted to you.

[emptypockets]

1 hour ago, bastco said:

Hi Sebastian,

I really appreciate your efforts. Would you be able to request uniformity of Immigration Law throughout Thailand Immigration Provincial Offices be strictly enforced and adhered to under threat of penalty to the offending office and a Call Centre number provided specifically to report any office not complying. Maybe worded/composed by an expat lawyer who is already respected by Thai Immigration heirarchy and maybe an expat media station who could request an explanation publicly from Thai Immigration Head Office. I find it hard to believe that the top brass in TI are aware of the "Own rules system" applied by individual Provincial offices

I believe this problem has only got progressively worse and needs to be addressed asap. 

Why would you want uniformity? Y

You very likely only use one immigration office,  the process at others will not affect you.  I'm sure there will be some members who are quite happy that their office is very liberal in applying the tm30 rules and may not be too happy reverting to the letter of the law to satisfy you. 

[jackdd]

2 hours ago, Sunderland said:

It is highly convenient for immigration officers to extract money - like thieves - from foreigners who are unable to process extensions without a TM30 receipt.

Judging by the number of reports where foreigners were really not obligated to file a TM30 (neither owner, landlord or possessor) and who were denied an extension for a missing TM30, which we see (actually "not see") here on Thaivisa, this seems to affect very few people.

[Moontan]

Thank you for doing this, and thank you for the information too.

[Sumarianson]

30 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

That's a very pittyful situation you are in: having to leave your loved ones because of the enforced 400K-800K money in the bank requirement.

Are there really no other options for you?  Three suggestions:

1. When you are +50 years of age, you could consider when back in UK to apply for a Non-Imm OA visa, which would allow you to stay up to 2 years in Thailand before the 400K-800K requirement would once again kick in.

Note: For that Visa application in UK you need to demonstrate that you have sufficient funds.  However, temporarily borrowing 800K in GBP from family/friends till application is approved would be possible.

2. There are several posts on this Forum claiming that it is still possible to make use of an agent to circumvent the 400K-800K requirement.  I am not recommending that but it might be a matter of last resort.

3. Is it not possible to get a mortgage on the condo you own, and use that money for meeting the 400K-800K requirement?

Thank you for your very kind thoughts and suggestions. My financial situation is far more complex than you can imagine. It is not that I do not have the funds for a few years at least but I will return to my own country and will need a home there. I will have to buy it. I need the necessary funds to do that. It is a combination of the new rules, the exchange rate and my own personal financial circumstance. If I was given my god given right to stay with and work to provide for my family without having to jump through hoops, I could manage. I would be able to buy a proper home for my child and work to provide for her. The fact that I have no permenant status here in Thailand prevents me from doing the best for my family or Thailand.I do not have a degree so cannot teach, although when I took my TEFL in London they told me that I was a natural teacher. 

The Thai government does not give families the same rights as my country nor many European or 1st world countries. They are in "fear" and it is that fear that slows the progress of Thailand. Near all multicultural countries have thrived while the protectionist countries have lagged behind in most cases. I hope that this changes soon or Thailand will be dragged into the modern age by the inevitable changes taking place right now. I thank you for you kind thoughts which are much appreciated.

[Ratt Thai]

7 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Judging by the number of reports where foreigners were really not obligated to file a TM30 (neither owner, landlord or possessor) and who were denied an extension for a missing TM30, which we see (actually "not see") here on Thaivisa, this seems to affect very few people.

I give my observation to that:
Immigration uses a computer, nation wide connected.
Once you are in the country, your data of entry (tm6) gets into their system.

The TM30 connection came in effect after a update of their system some time ago, giving a pop-up screen if you don't have a TM30 or if the TM30 is logged in another province....
 

If you have any previous TM30 in the same province where you go do perform any of your "inquiry's" then no sweat...

 

But if you went into another province (hotel , hospital or anything that registers a TM30) then the popup will alert the Officer involved, depending the office action will be required to comply...

 

If you stay in your provinces as per TM30, most of the time nothing will happen at the Immigration Office...

 

Same thing goes for online 90 day reporting: based on Passport data and TM6, where the last TM30 is registered = the adress to submit for TM47 aka 90 day report.

 

[Martyp]

1 hour ago, Sumarianson said:

I hope the efforts result in a positive outcome for us all. I offer my thanks to you for your efforts. As a bolster to this, many of my Thai friends see the TM30 as disruptive and an unnessary chore. However, they were not inclined to provide a signature on the petition. Their reason eludes me but I can guess at it. I agree with Mavideol that something drastic has to be done about the 800K in the bank business. I am currently planning to leave Thailand and a daughter here as I cannot contend with the measures. I have my own bought and paid for condo and new car all of which I am selling to move home. Strictly because of the financial burden of these new rules. My money is in the UK and the £ has lost over 10 baht for every £ in the last few years ( I have been here 7 years) this represents a massive reduction in my finances. The new rules mean that you have to transfer enough money to survive for the period that the 800K or 400K cannot be touched. It is a rediculous requirement. It would be better if after a period of stay more than say 5 years that you can use a purchased condo or a new car as collateral. Along with showing long standing sufficient funds in a foreign bank account to cover the next year of extension. This would eliminate those using money that is not theirs to gain an extension and relieve those of us who come here to live with our families honestly and in full compliance with the law. 

These new laws mean that I cannot spend as much in Thailand with my family because of the extra burden and the exchange rate which is now pitiful. I have already warned my family of this. Change this before it is too late and you loose your expats.

I agree that condo/house ownership should count for something. The degradation of the British pound is hardly in the control of the Thai government. Best to look at the policies of your home country for blame. The 800k/400k requirements have been around for a long time. I assume the 65,000 baht/month method doesn’t work for you either?

[Sumarianson]

55 minutes ago, DrPhibes said:

The reason for not signing is a concern that you are handing over a list of "trouble makers" to the government.  I would sign in a heartbeat if there was a level of anonymity.

I signed. I will not let "fear" rule my decisions. It is

"fear" that is at the heart of the world's troubles!

[TSF]

1 hour ago, Sumarianson said:

Change this before it is too late and you loose your expats.

This is precisely what they are aiming to do. They don't want you/us living in their country, so they are culling the farang herd. They'll continue coming up with new regulations to make life here impossible. Bit by bit we'll throw in the towel and go. 

[Sumarianson]

1 minute ago, Martyp said:

I agree that condo/house ownership should count for something. The degradation of the British pound is hardly in the control of the Thai government. Best to look at the policies of your home country for blame. The 800k/400k requirements have been around for a long time. I assume the 65,000 baht/month method doesn’t work for you either?

Your comment and suggestion is appreciated. The 65K a month is a lot of trouble and grief. It is imperative to let the Thai government know that along with the problems we have witb exchange rates and the cost of living we have to be proverbially kicked in the head ( like some poor punter at a bar last night) with more insufferable rules and paperwork which have become the norm of the Thai beaurocratic system of government. Change is possible but it cannot be done while the government are in "fear". 

[brewsterbudgen]

This is precisely what they are aiming to do. They don't want you/us living in their country, so they are culling the farang herd. They'll continue coming up with new regulations to make life here impossible. Bit by bit we'll throw in the towel and go. 

A little over the top! TM30 is usually submitted by Thai landlords and hotels. If they wanted to cull farangs they could do so in a much easier way.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ExpatOne]

Thanks for your efforts.

[Sumarianson]

3 minutes ago, NightSky said:

The website security is flawed and anyone can access the database. Hope you didn’t use your main email address - expect lots of spam and scam emails if you signed it and if the website is still up without any security.

 

there is a difference between fearfulness and stupidity.

Again, more "fear". Don't worry if I have problems with airing my democratic viewpoint I will air that too. So far so good.

[looplaw]

1 hour ago, August2016 said:

Hello,

 

I am currently having this trouble with my landlord regarding of completing the TM30 and it is preventing my spouse from getting they work permit, what do we do?

Move. Find a landlord who will comply with TM 30. 

[Rimmer]

An negative baiting troll post and replies have been removed

[dluek]

Needs to be said that this info received from Khorat immigration, specifically that TM30 is only required when re-entering from abroad and not from another province, was directly contradicted last night by Bangkok immigration officials at the Thai-Indian Chamber of Commerce, as reported by Richard Barrow. They said it is required to file TM30 even when visiting a different province for longer than 24 hours. 

[Thaifriends]

On 8/8/2019 at 12:47 PM, DrTuner said:

I think I mentioned before westeners are just collateral damage. AirBnB, Burmese and Indians. Thank them.

Sirtless also thank them. ????

[Thaifriends]

Its actually to kill Airbnb and nothing else

[JohnnyBKK]

I really thought that the thai immigration hated us, I already planned my exit of the country, bought property in Dubai to leave Thailand at the end of my current visa.

 

Now you tell us that they are targeting other nationalities but because the law is the law we all pay the price... I feel treated like a criminal in Thailand, having to report all the time to the immigration. With all the money I spend here I would expect a better feeling.

 

And yes, the thai baht is so expensive right now that is cheaper in other high end countries to live. For example, my expenses would be the same as Thailand in Dubai, and that's quite crazy in my opinion.

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, dluek said:

Needs to be said that this info received from Khorat immigration, specifically that TM30 is only required when re-entering from abroad and not from another province, was directly contradicted last night by Bangkok immigration officials at the Thai-Indian Chamber of Commerce, as reported by Richard Barrow. They said it is required to file TM30 even when visiting a different province for longer than 24 hours. 

Different offices means different requirements. The officers that attended that meeting were from Sub Division 2 which is the office at Chaeng Wattana in Bangkok.

[JohnnyBKK]

4 hours ago, Checkmate842 said:

HI live alone with my 6 year old son, I am divorced from my Thai wife and have sole parental power from the Thai court. My ex wife refuses to change the Blue book so in accordance with Thai law she is the House Master even though the Land document has my son as the owner of the house and land no one can sell until he is 20. Thai Immigration refuse to recognise this and state that my ex, who is uncontactable and has not lived there for 4 years has to do my TM30. The only other solution given after much discussion was to get a Thai friend to say I live there and to submit a TM30. Even that has issues as they require a rental agreement and I am not willing to sign that I live there as this can be seen as falsifying an official document leaving me open to prosecution or deportation. I am sure I am not the only one in this situation.

Easy, rent a shit place for 1000 thb per month and get a rental contract there. File the TM30 with that address. Done.

[sandrabbit]

15 minutes ago, dluek said:

Needs to be said that this info received from Khorat immigration, specifically that TM30 is only required when re-entering from abroad and not from another province, was directly contradicted last night by Bangkok immigration officials at the Thai-Indian Chamber of Commerce, as reported by Richard Barrow. They said it is required to file TM30 even when visiting a different province for longer than 24 hours. 

And Rayong immigration told my wife that a TM30 wasn't required when coming back from abroad if it was to the same registered address.

[Peterw42]

4 hours ago, Checkmate842 said:

HI live alone with my 6 year old son, I am divorced from my Thai wife and have sole parental power from the Thai court. My ex wife refuses to change the Blue book so in accordance with Thai law she is the House Master even though the Land document has my son as the owner of the house and land no one can sell until he is 20. Thai Immigration refuse to recognise this and state that my ex, who is uncontactable and has not lived there for 4 years has to do my TM30. The only other solution given after much discussion was to get a Thai friend to say I live there and to submit a TM30. Even that has issues as they require a rental agreement and I am not willing to sign that I live there as this can be seen as falsifying an official document leaving me open to prosecution or deportation. I am sure I am not the only one in this situation.

The owner (your son) could change the blue book at the local ampher.  The ex owner of the property (your ex) doesnt control who is in the blue book, she no longer has anything to do with the property. Go to the local ampher and say the person listed in the bluebook as housemaster, no longer owns the property or lives there, and she will be removed.

 

Housemaster for immigration matters isnt strictly the house master in the bluebook, its a broader term for possessor of the property.

 

Section 4 “House Master” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

[schlemmi]

6 hours ago, Martyp said:

I don’t doubt that he means the owner of the condo or house. What is continually not addressed is when the landlord refuses to file and that the “possessor” is allowed to file. Since the foreigner depends on the TM30 to get an extension the entire responsibility falls on the foreigner. On top of that there is no policy and effort to enforce compliance with the landlord. There is no consequence to the landlord for not filing.

 

 I am fortunate that my landlord takes TM30’s seriously, has registered for an online account, paid the initial fine, and insists on filing herself when I report I have traveled.

This is missleading translation.  More close to the original thai wording would be:

The housemaster, tho owner or posesor of a livingplace or the hotelmanager. 

 

There 3 different groups of people concerned

 

The owner or the posessor of the residence the original text is talking about, not referes to the residence where a housmaster is available. 

[paul1804]

Thank you for taking the time to compile this submission, i am sure all us Farangs who are responsible, law abiding and legitimate residents here in Thailand as well as the Thai authorities appreciate efforts made to streamline and simplify the process. It is obviously hampered by the fact that there are so many illegal aliens living in Thailand and a large percentage of those can simply drift across the border bypassing check points and the system. 

 

Thanks again

 

Paul

[Martyp]

44 minutes ago, JohnnyBKK said:

I really thought that the thai immigration hated us, I already planned my exit of the country, bought property in Dubai to leave Thailand at the end of my current visa.

 

Now you tell us that they are targeting other nationalities but because the law is the law we all pay the price... I feel treated like a criminal in Thailand, having to report all the time to the immigration. With all the money I spend here I would expect a better feeling.

 

And yes, the thai baht is so expensive right now that is cheaper in other high end countries to live. For example, my expenses would be the same as Thailand in Dubai, and that's quite crazy in my opinion.

I would think Thailand and Dubai are very different places. It’s not all about money. It’s where you want to be or can afford to be given the costs and culture and Immigration requirements.

[jackdd]

5 hours ago, Checkmate842 said:

HI live alone with my 6 year old son, I am divorced from my Thai wife and have sole parental power from the Thai court. My ex wife refuses to change the Blue book so in accordance with Thai law she is the House Master even though the Land document has my son as the owner of the house and land no one can sell until he is 20. Thai Immigration refuse to recognise this and state that my ex, who is uncontactable and has not lived there for 4 years has to do my TM30. The only other solution given after much discussion was to get a Thai friend to say I live there and to submit a TM30. Even that has issues as they require a rental agreement and I am not willing to sign that I live there as this can be seen as falsifying an official document leaving me open to prosecution or deportation. I am sure I am not the only one in this situation.

Your son is the owner, so he can ...

... change the housemaster in the house book

... report you

... make a rental contract with you, making you the possessor and thus you can report yourself

Probably there are even more options, should not be too difficult to use one of them to achieve what you want.

[schlemmi]

51 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

The owner (your son) could change the blue book at the local ampher.  The ex owner of the property (your ex) doesnt control who is in the blue book, she no longer has anything to do with the property. Go to the local ampher and say the person listed in the bluebook as housemaster, no longer owns the property or lives there, and she will be removed.

 

Housemaster for immigration matters isnt strictly the house master in the bluebook, its a broader term for possessor of the property.

 

Section 4 “House Master” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

The section 4 of the immi act is a verbatime copy from the "law on people act".

The law of people act defines further more the case if the housemaster is not reachable.

You should go to the Ampur and clear the situation with them.