TM30 scare mongering

[wmlc]

You all have no idea what you are talking about. TM30 is the responsibility of your landlord and not the foreigner. However, local immigration offices will pass the responsibility onto you only at the time of your visa extension. This means they won’t extend your visa unless it’s done. In this case they are charging 800 baht fine and you must submit your lease agreement and signed copy of the landlord’s ID card. A new TM30 is only required to be submitted by your landlord if you leave the country and come back. Therefore, it is your responsibility to inform your landlord. 

 

On the other hand, for domestic travel, if you go to stay in a hotel, that hotel will register you as staying there. When you return to your permanent residence, you will be required to submit a TM28 form notifying immigration you have changed your address again. 

 

I’m so sick and tired of all this TM30 scare mongering and lack of knowledge of the posters who’s post only half the story and only 50% accurate. It’s all the responsibility of your landlord. Supply them with the online link, notify them when you leave the country, and if you change your address inside Thailand, submit the TM28 when you return. If none of these are done, immigration may or may not catch it at your visa extension. If they catch it, take care of it then, pay the fine on behalf of your landlord, make sure you are prepared with the docs just in case, and then deduct it from your rent. If immigration ever check to see if the TM30 was done or not in between your visa extensions, it will be the landlord that will be in trouble not the expat. However, as previously posted, for domestic travel, if you don’t do a TM28 when you return,immigration will fine the expat if they every do a spot check as was done at that Sukhumvit Condo and posted on TV. 

 

Now go to travel and live your lives. Stop this nonsense!

Edited August 10, 2019 by wmlc

[Date Masamune]

Last week I suggested a pause to TM30 threads better contact your LOCAL immigration office to determine their requirements. Nobody listened it got worse. What you have done here is contribute to the half truths and confusion.

 

• Your first paragraph is written as if every Alien has a Thai landlord. Not true. Many members own their own condominium units. 
• TM30 has nothing to do with TM28
• Nothing in standard rental contracts permits you to deduct anything from monthly rent, be it required repairs or failure for the Landlord to comply with TM30. Suggesting otherwise is very bad advice as it puts the renter in MATERIAL BREACH OF CONTRACT under Thai law.  

 

[DrJack54]

OP, I love reading posts stated with such a level of confidence and incorrect in so many ways.

[wgdanson]

41 minutes ago, wmlc said:

you will be required to submit a TM28 form notifying immigration you have changed your address again. 

I thought the TM28 was for PERMANENT change of address, not returning to your previous one. No? The hotel you stay at will do a TM30.

[sumrit]

@wmlc. Read and digest the Immigration act, sections 38 and 4 to decide who can be held responsible for filing a TM30.

[sumrit]

1 minute ago, wgdanson said:

I thought the TM28 was for PERMANENT change of address, not returning to your previous one. No? The hotel you stay at will do a TM30.

But on return to your home address.................

[wgdanson]

2 minutes ago, sumrit said:

But on return to your home address.................

Your landlord is SUPPOSED to do a TM30 IF your local Immgration requires it.

[jacko45k]

Oh enough already.........

[Denim]

What is this TM30 thingy popping up all over the place ?

 

[sumrit]

7 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Your landlord is SUPPOSED to do a TM30 IF your local Immgration requires it.

The Immigration act, section 38 states:

 

 The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence is responsible

 

Section 4 states:

 

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a
house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity
whatsoever

 

In other words you/youwife/partner can be held responsible and fined for not filing a TM30.......IF Immigration requires one.

[rkidlad]

It doesn’t really matter what the law is in Thailand. They make it up as they go along and we won’t get our visa extensions, etc, without having a TM30. 

 

Anyone who thinks authoritarian rule without checks and balances is what Thailand needs, because they have the soft bigotry of low expectations towards Thais, well done. You get to enjoy eating s*** too. 

[Max69xl]

28 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

I thought the TM28 was for PERMANENT change of address, not returning to your previous one. No? The hotel you stay at will do a TM30.

You are correct. One important thing is to check the rules in the province where you are staying. If you are staying in, for example Chonburi or Korat, you don't have to submit a new TM30 when you leave the province and come back to same address. You just wait for next 90-days report. But if you leave the country,then you have to submit a new TM30. The reason is the new TM6 Departure Card has a new number,and the TM6 is for some reason connected to your last TM30-report.

[dcnx]

OP is in for a rude awakening.

[Max69xl]

17 minutes ago, sumrit said:

The Immigration act, section 38 states:

 

 The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence is responsible

 

Section 4 states:

 

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a
house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity
whatsoever

 

In other words you/youwife/partner can be held responsible and fined for not filing a TM30.......IF Immigration requires one.

You are correct. But,there are condos in Pattaya where you as a tenant must submit the TM30 yourself,except for the first time you check in. The fine is 1600 Baht in Jomtien Immigration if you haven't done the TM30 report. 

[Vacuum]

35 minutes ago, sumrit said:

The Immigration act, section 38 states:

 

 The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence is responsible

 

Section 4 states:

 

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a
house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity
whatsoever

 

In other words you/youwife/partner can be held responsible and fined for not filing a TM30.......IF Immigration requires one.

Does this mean that if you check in at a hotel, you could tell the staff that you'll do the TM 30 yourself? Immigration wouldn't have a clue if yo've left your house or not.

[Max69xl]

13 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

Does this mean that if you check in at a hotel, you could tell the staff that you'll do the TM 30 yourself? Immigration wouldn't have a clue if yo've left your house or not.

No,hotels and official guesthouses must do it. That's why they copy your passport and TM6-card. But if you're staying in a condo or in your gf/wife's house,then the TM30 can be submitted by several people.

[Saltire]

1 hour ago, Date Masamune said:

Last week I suggested a pause to TM30 threads better contact your LOCAL immigration office to determine their requirements. Nobody listened it got worse. What you have done here is contribute to the half truths and confusion.

 

• Your first paragraph is written as if every Alien has a Thai landlord. Not true. Many members own their own condominium units. 
• TM30 has nothing to do with TM28
• Nothing in standard rental contracts permits you to deduct anything from monthly rent, be it required repairs or failure for the Landlord to comply with TM30. Suggesting otherwise is very bad advice as it puts the renter in MATERIAL BREACH OF CONTRACT under Thai law.  

 

I am with you on no more TM30 posts. I am 99% sure I know what MY Immigration wants (today) in this regard , and that is all that matters to me. If it changes next time I will deal with it with a smile but I don't feel the need to know all the vagaries of all 77 provinces. 

 

It seems many still don't understand that amphoe, Immigration offices, transport offices, government hospitals and probably many other Thai admin departments have their own idea as to what is required to provide services to foreigners and others. Talk to your own office and unless you move, ignore all the 'but at my IO.....' comments.

[Puchaiyank]

The TM-turdy...it is a stinky subject!

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, wmlc said:

On the other hand, for domestic travel, if you go to stay in a hotel, that hotel will register you as staying there. When you return to your permanent residence, you will be required to submit a TM28 form notifying immigration you have changed your address again. 

 

Says who?

 

Nobody has ever told me about this rule so I'm not going to do it.

 

Never in my 25 years here have I been asked for a TM30, or 28.

 

You are the scaremonger.

[Salerno]

Hope the OP's boss doesn't read TV, if anyone finds out where he works could put the business ... out of business:

3 hours ago, wmlc said:

Really? Feel free to come into the law firm, I work at and I’ll show you the examples of all this. Thanks for coming out. TM30 is the responsibility of the landlord or house owner period and end of story. Read the law about it first before you post hearsay. I bet if you went to talk to a different immigration officer, you wood get a different story. 

 

[Max69xl]

2 hours ago, Date Masamune said:

Last week I suggested a pause to TM30 threads better contact your LOCAL immigration office to determine their requirements. Nobody listened it got worse. What you have done here is contribute to the half truths and confusion.

 

• Your first paragraph is written as if every Alien has a Thai landlord. Not true. Many members own their own condominium units. 
• TM30 has nothing to do with TM28
• Nothing in standard rental contracts permits you to deduct anything from monthly rent, be it required repairs or failure for the Landlord to comply with TM30. Suggesting otherwise is very bad advice as it puts the renter in MATERIAL BREACH OF CONTRACT under Thai law.  

 

Just one question, what has repairs in a rented condo to do with TM30?

In a standard contract,it says that when you leave, you get your deposit back in full unless there are damages. Wear and tear is ok. BUT, when you move in and you discover first day or week that the air-conditioner doesn't work properly, or something else that should have been working, doesn't work, it's totally ok to deduct the cost of the repair from the rent, unless the owner send someone to fix the problem. 

 

[Max69xl]

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Says who?

 

Nobody has ever told me about this rule so I'm not going to do it.

 

Never in my 25 years here have I been asked for a TM30, or 28.

 

You are the scaremonger.

You never submit a TM28 when coming back from another province. You submit a TM28 (Change of Address) when you officially move to another province,and a TM30. BUT, it's actually correct that most of the Immigration offices incl. CW in BKK demands you to submit a TM30 when coming back from another province,unless you are a permanent resident. 

[pieeyed]

You will find that soon enough many thai house owners will not want to rent to non thais. Some people like to go into Bkk from Pattaya a couple times a month and stay the weekend. Who wants to do a TM 30 a couple times a month? No landlord I know of and as a renter I would not want to do it either. The online TM 30 app needs to be improved as it is a pain in the ass to go to your nearest Imm. office to report.

[kellersphuket]

4 hours ago, wmlc said:

I’m so sick and tired of all this TM30 scare mongering and lack of knowledge of the posters who’s post only half the story and only 50% accurate

A bit like your post then ????

[Max69xl]

6 minutes ago, pieeyed said:

You will find that soon enough many thai house owners will not want to rent to non thais. Some people like to go into Bkk from Pattaya a couple times a month and stay the weekend. Who wants to do a TM 30 a couple times a month? No landlord I know of and as a renter I would not want to do it either. The online TM 30 app needs to be improved as it is a pain in the ass to go to your nearest Imm. office to report.

If you're staying in Pattaya you don't need to submit a TM30 when coming back from BKK or from somewhere else in Thailand. But, you must come back to same address. Just do next 90-days report, and you're good again.

[Matzzon]

4 hours ago, wmlc said:

Now go to travel and live your lives. Stop this nonsense!

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, wmlc said:

You all have no idea what you are talking about. TM30 is the responsibility of your landlord and not the foreigner. However, local immigration offices will pass the responsibility onto you only at the time of your visa extension. This means they won’t extend your visa unless it’s done. In this case they are charging 800 baht fine and you must submit your lease agreement and signed copy of the landlord’s ID card. A new TM30 is only required to be submitted by your landlord if you leave the country and come back. Therefore, it is your responsibility to inform your landlord. 

 

On the other hand, for domestic travel, if you go to stay in a hotel, that hotel will register you as staying there. When you return to your permanent residence, you will be required to submit a TM28 form notifying immigration you have changed your address again. 

 

I’m so sick and tired of all this TM30 scare mongering and lack of knowledge of the posters who’s post only half the story and only 50% accurate. It’s all the responsibility of your landlord. Supply them with the online link, notify them when you leave the country, and if you change your address inside Thailand, submit the TM28 when you return. If none of these are done, immigration may or may not catch it at your visa extension. If they catch it, take care of it then, pay the fine on behalf of your landlord, make sure you are prepared with the docs just in case, and then deduct it from your rent. If immigration ever check to see if the TM30 was done or not in between your visa extensions, it will be the landlord that will be in trouble not the expat. However, as previously posted, for domestic travel, if you don’t do a TM28 when you return,immigration will fine the expat if they every do a spot check as was done at that Sukhumvit Condo and posted on TV. 

 

Now go to travel and live your lives. Stop this nonsense!

Edited 4 hours ago by wmlc

You're making lots of sweeping generalisations and your understanding of the law/enforcement is not entirely correct. I do, however, agree that people are getting far to wound up.

 

TM.30 reports are to comply with section 38 of the immigration act. And the act makes it clear that whenever you stay in a new place (even one night) someone at that address is meant to report that stay using the TM.30. The law is to keep track of our whereabouts and only works if the current place you stay makes a report.

 

IMO the law was written with the intention that a third party report the foreigner, and was written 40 years ago when the majority of foreigners stayed in hotels/guesthouses. For the last 40 years some foreigners have had many reports made without even knowing it.

 

These days many foreigners stay in private properties so the authorities are simply wanting the property owners to comply with the act in the same way that hotels have been doing for years.

 

Also many foreigners own or rent property and -- as the law is written -- can report themselves as either the Owner or Possessor (tenant), even though that kind of defeats the purpose of the report.

 

So for you to claim that it's solely down to the landlord is wrong. The landlord (owner) is 100% responsible, but it's possible that more than one person is responsible. And because the law is so ambiguous some immigration offices will consider the foreigner being the owner/possessor are equally responsible.

Edited August 10, 2019 by elviajero

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, sumrit said:

3 hours ago, wgdanson said:

Your landlord is SUPPOSED to do a TM30 IF your local Immgration requires it.

The Immigration act, section 38 states:

 

 The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence is responsible

 

Section 4 states:

 

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a
house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity
whatsoever

 

In other words you/youwife/partner can be held responsible and fined for not filing a TM30.......IF Immigration requires one.

You are quoting the definition out of context.

 

The law says that the Owner, or House-master, or Possessor can make the report.

 

The house-master is the person named in the Blue Tabian Baan. The definition of house-master is just to confirm that the house-master is responsible regardless of their capacity.

 

In simply terms;

Owner = owner

House-master = person named as the head of household in the Tabian Baan. If there is one.

Possessor = Anyone that is living in the property that isn't the owner or house-master. It's required because the owner doesn't always live in a property or know of the comings and goings. And there isn't always a nominated house-master.

 

A foreign tenant would report as the Possessor of the property.

[Max69xl]

5 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You're making lots of sweeping generalisations and your understanding of the law/enforcement is not entirely correct. I do, however, agree that people are getting far to wound up.

 

TM.30 reports are to comply with section 38 of the immigration act. And the act makes it clear that whenever you stay in a new place (even one night) someone at that address is meant to report that stay using the TM.30. The law is to keep track of our whereabouts and only works if the current place you stay makes a report.

 

IMO the law was written with the intention that a third party report the foreigner, and was written 40 years ago when the majority of foreigners stayed in hotels/guesthouses. For the last 40 years some foreigners have had many reports made without even knowing it.

 

These days many foreigners stay in private properties so the authorities are simply wanting the property owners to comply with the act in the same way that hotels have been doing for years.

 

Also many foreigners own or rent property and as the law is written can report themselves as either the Owner or Possessor (tenant), even though that kind of defeats the purpose of the report.

 

So for you to claim that it's solely down to the landlord is wrong. The landlord (owner) is 100% responsible, but it's possible that more than one person is responsible. And because the law is so ambiguous some immigration offices will consider the foreigner being the owner/possessor are equally responsible.

You are totally correct. There are a lot of expats in Thailand on this forum who says they never ever submitted a TM30, but in many cases someone else did it for them years ago. 

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Says who?

 

Nobody has ever told me about this rule so I'm not going to do it.

 

Never in my 25 years here have I been asked for a TM30, or 28.

 

You are the scaremonger.

Because that's how laws work right!? ???? 

 

U don't know about a law so you can ignore it? Tell us one country where it is like that, i want to go there... 

 

 

We are also not scared, we are annoyed as its all unnecessary bs that makes no sense. 

 

I got simply better things to do in my life than this crap. Everyone has or should have at least.