Video: TM30: Thailand’s controversial immigration laws and their consequences - FCCT event

[gk10002000]

33 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

I seem to remember years ago the police in france used to go around all the hotels at night and collect copies of the registration cards- no one ever seemed to have a problem with that, I don't know if it still happens- one would think it is computerised if they do. Reporting is hardly a drama unless you make one out of it. 

hotels in Thailand supposedly report when you stay and they are supposed to.  No problems with that.  The problem is when somebody moves around, returns to their own rented or owned condo from visiting another province, or if a person goes and stays at a friend's house as some locals or expats do.  And there are other situations where the technicals get iffy.  Many landlords of smaller places don't want to go to immigration with you or give you letters or copies of their ID and leases etc.  And the individual IOs some of which seem to make up stuff can get frustrating

[owenm]

I remember my first trip to real Burma back in 1987.. I think a tourist could only stay for 7-10 days and all your travel by bus (or songthaew) or train had to be booked and paid through a government tourism office, as well as recording all your accommodation which had to be approved.. You also had to bring in a minimum of USD for each day which had to be exchanged into local Kyat at official rates.. Any excess and you could change on the black market at about a 10x better exchange rate.. The former government knew every tourist's moves, itinerary and accommodation from arrival.. 

But today's Myanmar is free of most restrictions, unlike Thai's TM30.. 

 

The same year 1987 visited the former USSR for 10 days, part of an organised tour through former Leningrad, Moscow, Minsk and Smolensk.. A local guide accompanied the tour 24/7, usually a university student, and would have to make a daily report. All hotels had gated security with uniformed guards to prevent any westerners from leaving the hotel solo after hours.. I remember then, going to Gorky Park, seeing an undercover agent in a trench coat reading a newspaper observing our group.. He appeared at 2 other locations that day.. Paranoia plus.. 

Today's Russia, as free and liberal as most European countries.. 

 

I'm thinking that Thailand's current immigration and TM30 reporting would be amongst the toughest worldwide, with perhaps the exception of North Korea.. 

[dcnx]

37 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

I seem to remember years ago the police in france used to go around all the hotels at night and collect copies of the registration cards- no one ever seemed to have a problem with that, I don't know if it still happens- one would think it is computerised if they do. Reporting is hardly a drama unless you make one out of it. 

Years ago we owned slaves in the USA.

 

Times change. It’s the digital age and their apps and websites are terrible.  There are better ways. Besides, they already have their forms from our entry and 90 day check in.

 

That said, just pay the damn fine. You all probably spend much more per month in beer, smokes, and other useless garbage.

[kotsak]

1 hour ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

 

Last week I was told that the idea of TM30 originates from Russia. They have or had something very similar which required foreigners to report whenever they stayed somewhere other than their registered address overnight. 

Everything is copied from the commies, the resident registration book (blue book) is similar to the chinese one, you wouldn't be able to get out from your province without that. I remember end of '90 was touring south china and our tour guide got panicked when realized he was not carrying that with him during a police check. I can't remember how that ended up for him though.. ????

[Beggar]

12 minutes ago, bipper said:

I wonder just wonder would a terrorist stay anywhere a TM30 was a requirement? Rocket science ????

No but they will need to apply for a terrorist visa. 

[bbbbooboo]

Hmmm..... TIT

[geoffbezoz]

3 minutes ago, owenm said:

I remember my first trip to real Burma back in 1987.. I think a tourist could only stay for 7-10 days and all your travel by bus (or songthaew) or train had to be booked and paid through a government tourism office, as well as recording all your accommodation which had to be approved.. You also had to bring in a minimum of USD for each day which had to be exchanged into local Kyat at official rates.. Any excess and you could change on the black market at about a 10x better exchange rate.. The former government knew every tourist's moves, itinerary and accommodation from arrival.. 

But today's Myanmar is free of most restrictions, unlike Thai's TM30.. 

 

The same year 1987 visited the former USSR for 10 days, part of an organised tour through former Leningrad, Moscow, Minsk and Smolensk.. A local guide accompanied the tour 24/7, usually a university student, and would have to make a daily report. All hotels had gated security with uniformed guards to prevent any westerners from leaving the hotel solo after hours.. I remember then, going to Gorky Park, seeing an undercover agent in a trench coat reading a newspaper observing our group.. He appeared at 2 other locations that day.. Paranoia plus.. 

Today's Russia, as free and liberal as most European countries.. 

 

I'm thinking that Thailand's current immigration and TM30 reporting would be amongst the toughest worldwide, with perhaps the exception of North Korea.. 

I don't think it is the toughest worldwide but Thais always have been xenophobic to the extreme in order to keep their ultra corrupt society to themselves maybe.

[gk10002000]

Electronic monitoring is just a step away.  Did you buy and register a Thai SIM card?  If so, it is trivial for them to be able to figure out what cell tower and consequently where your phone is located.  Of course that does not mean that you are where your phone is

[TEFLKrabi]

1 hour ago, SammyT said:

Pretty much just here to see the ranting of angry expats. My TM30 reporting takes up a few hours each year. It's not ideal, but it is what it is. 

It’s not a great system but I agree. I don’t think the majority of expats move around that much and as much as it’s a nuisance, it’s not a regular nuisance. I’d wildly guess that it severely affects less than 10% of expats.

[Jackie66]

Arrival card has your address on it

Every time you extend your visa you give your address

Every 90 days you have to report you give your address

Every hotel you stay in reports your stay

And now you have to make sure to report it again when you arrive home after you probably already gave them your address on the arrival card

 

Totally makes sense ????

[BangRon]

Wow! Interesting assemblage. Wasn’t there another controversial thai enactment article introduced declaring; no gatherings of 5 or more people can take place anywhere? Perchance powers that be, could bring it into effect again and swoop in and stop club meetings such as this event?

[Tchooptip]

47 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

I seem to remember years ago the police in france used to go around all the hotels at night and collect copies of the registration cards- no one ever seemed to have a problem with that, I don't know if it still happens- one would think it is computerised if they do. Reporting is hardly a drama unless you make one out of it. 

 It is not a drama at all, but  personnaly I do not know how to do it!
I downloaded the TM 30, it seems I cannot fills it myself, I am only a tenant, my Thai owner is now far away, I see her once a year when I pay for the coming year.
I will go on Monday to Samui immigration trying to find the explanation I did not find on TV. 

 

 

[chang1]

14 minutes ago, bipper said:

I wonder just wonder would a terrorist stay anywhere a TM30 was a requirement? Rocket science ????

They would have a fake or stolen passport. I don't have a problem with businesses like hotels and guest houses being required to report, as has been the norm for years, but all this new reporting is pointless as if a criminal is staying with friends, they will never be reported anyway.

As well as being fined for going through an amber light, TM30 is why we are about to go to Mauritius instead of Thailand for our summer holidays. Years ago they would have been small inconveniences but now holidays in Thailand are past their sell by date and Googles Alexa keeps my son in touch with his grandparents.

[Zack61]

What does one do when they take a night train or bus somewhere?

[chang1]

3 minutes ago, Zack61 said:

What does one do when they take a night train or bus somewhere?

Make sure it's heading for the border!

[lamyai3]

2 hours ago, RotBenz8888 said:

Ah, TM30 the Movie. I'll just pop the popcorn first.

Dumb and Dumberer with a Vengeance. 

[Surasak]

I notice the TM 30 is required for a stay of more than 24 hours in another Provence? My wife and I have a residence in one part of the Provence and another residence on the far side of same Provence. Distance apart is 76Km. We spend time at both and on many occasions, more than 24 hours. Am I breaking the law by not submitting a TM 30? Just a thought.

[Peterphuket]

1 hour ago, hansnl said:

I guess the current "tightening of the screws" is based on what is going on in China, same-same as it were.....

Quite logical, seeing the build up of the powers to be.

Maybe that is how they want to please the Chinese, when does the country invade.

Maybe for that reason they can also ask for advice in the Netherlands.

Some time ago they also wanted to check everything for the Germans.

[Colabamumbai]

Unlike most posters, I signed the petition. 

[johnc925]

blah blah blah bullshit... the fact is this is extortion, plain and simple... not well thought out and very poorly executed. Lame arse excuses for lame arse policies. The fact is they do NOT know what they are doing... the GOBS of paperwork are evident of that.

 

What pisses me off is I have been here going on 5 years, have a record of consistent income, yet my moving to a marriage visa requires 400K deposit, even though my records show more than 100K transfer per month like clockwork. I now have to leave the country and move/sell my crap because of this insane policy. My Thai wife cannot believe the stupidity going on.

 

You, sirs, are alienating good expats and it WILL have an impact on your economy.  

[Denim]

2 hours ago, PatOngo said:

TM30.....the ultra marathon or is it the never ending story?

Gonna be up there with Brexit.

 

Won't go away now. Too many people poking a stick at it has kept it awake.

 

If the whole thing had been met with a wall of silence from the expat community it would have been enforced enthusiastically in tourist areas for a few months then slowly but inexorably been ignored and forgotten by the Thais who's duty it is to enforce as it was after it was originally introduced years ago.

 

The squeaky wheel gets the attention.

[peter14]

the  business climate is a its lowest..  business are  shutting down . factory are down .  everything is bad right now.  the country is going to fall into chaos 

[ThomasThBKK]

9 minutes ago, johnc925 said:

I now have to leave the country and move/sell my crap because of this insane policy. My Thai wife cannot believe the stupidity going on.

For what it's worth, not a single thai i spoke with believes this non sense; they all thing it's bat shit crazy.

[Matzzon]

2 hours ago, keith101 said:

I have the yellow residence book does my wife still need to do a TM30 after I return from a golf tour in Pattaya ?

Depends on if you went over or under par. 

[KhunFred]

Expats are saying "Leave us alone".  Immigration is not listening. Bring on the Chinese tourists.

[holy cow cm]

Closing statement by the Major General: It is not easy to change the law.

 

Could have fooled me. Don't they do it all of the time?

 

After viewing this meeting it leaves me a bit hot under the collar at the Immigration replies. We can just hope that all of this does not fall on Thai bureaucratic deaf ears, and if it does, they only have themselves to point the finger back at themselves.

[milesinnz]

A good recession and vanishing tourists and a decent drought will make for an interesting time for this Thai government. All the ordinary Thai I know are in financial strife. Thankfully I rejected the idea of ever staying in Thailand long term, just sad that I have made a lot of friends in Thailand.....

[Thaifriends]

1 hour ago, zydeco said:

Got to give credit to the French Canadian lawyer. @1.26:30 he calls out the general and his subordinates who have basically been refusing to answer the questions and just saying "the law is the law and must be complied with."  He asks why wasn't it the case for 40 years and brings up other instances of non-enforced laws. And reply? None. Passed things off to a comment from the Australian Chamber of Commerce who quickly moved to praise immigration for making things "so much easier." BTW, why no American representative at this forum?  UK, Canada, Australia. No Americans.

They are busy in election campaign daily flow chart of which side they should start making loyality as insurance policy????

Sorry just a joke

[ThomasThBKK]

9 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Expats are saying "Leave us alone".  Immigration is not listening. Bring on the Chinese tourists.

they mentioned in the video that the chinese chamber of commerce had a similar meeting the week before as far as i remember.

And they are equally annoyed...

[milesinnz]

2 hours ago, SammyT said:

Pretty much just here to see the ranting of angry expats. My TM30 reporting takes up a few hours each year. It's not ideal, but it is what it is. 

right, and if you are a tourist for a few months, on a motorcycle, traveling every day or every other day, am I or my Thai friend supposed to reserve the next day for filling in the TM30 relating to the private residence I have just stayed at ???...