Video: TM30: Thailand’s controversial immigration laws and their consequences - FCCT event

[ThaiLawOnline]

24 minutes ago, Huckenfell said:

So you don't agree with the 'card' idea presented by the Australian ?

 

Ok, so let me introduce you the pink ID for foreigners. I was one of the first to write about it in English and Thai on internet. On the back of the Thai ID, it is written in Thai : This is not an ID.

 

First problem.

 

Second, you need a ta bian baan to get the Thai ID and all district do not give the same conditions for the yellow Ta bian baan. The blue is only for Thai residents and permanents residents.

 

To get a yellow Ta bian baan, you normally need witnesses, pictures, à legalization of your passport. But me, I would go further: criminal background check, for example, and even for work permits (I think it is done now). Then, you exempt the people with yellow Ta bian baan, or work permit from tm30 and if you want, give the Thai pink ID but right now,  this is not a powerful tool for foreigners.

 

The yellow Ta bian is refused for non-married people in many amphur. If you are refused, you could take the amphur at the administrative court for free (or it cost very little), no lawyer needed and the administration NEEDS to follow the registration act of 1991 and the modifications of 2008 including its regulations.

 

Just thinking pink ID now without putting it in context of Ta bian baan, is not the current law.

 

When i applied for permanent residency, everybody told me it is difficult, no real privilege, expensive.

 

When I wrote about Thai Pink ID (just google that with Thailand and my article should be first or second) people told me it was useless, etc.

 

i believe there were too many keyboard warriors and people that will never be satisfied by any solution.

 

Yes, the pink ID and suspending the TM30 is the best we can have and this is acceptable, easy, and convenient. But they need to change the registration act and immigration officers I met do not seem to want any openings. Why? I have no idea.

 

[emptypockets]

8 hours ago, hotchilli said:

And nothing will !

Or it will be enforced with an iron fist consistently across the country now that face has been lost. 

Sometimes it is better to not stir up a hornets nest. 

[gamesgplayemail]

1 hour ago, emptypockets said:

Or it will be enforced with an iron fist consistently across the country now that face has been lost. 

Sometimes it is better to not stir up a hornets nest. 

 

What face ? they never had any !

 

 

[ukrules]

Let me make it clear : They simply don't give a crap what anybody thinks.

 

It's like listening to an annoying dog barking, all they want to do is shut it up.

[rott]

4 hours ago, Huckenfell said:

Why not do it whilst you are on Samui on the way home ?

 

Because the law states that you have to do it within 24 hours of arriving home. NOT on the way home. 

You are advocating people breaking the law to appease the lawmakers.

[choff56]

13 hours ago, TSF said:

They keep bringing up the Erawan Shrine bombing as one of, if not the, prime reason for knowing foreigners whereabouts. Yeah, great idea, like a terrorist flies in Thailand to carry out a planned bomb attack and he/she is going to report all their movements to immigration. 

Fly in. 20,000 baht will get any bomber across a land border.

[kevin612]

Oh yea, why would they take away TM 30? It is the corruption money.

[Tomahawk21]

if i am on a retirement visa, get an exit visa to go out of Thailand do i need to report back to immigration to do a TM30 on my return ? i am a house owner here not staying in rental accommodation should that make any difference. thx

[FarFlungFalang]

28 minutes ago, kevin612 said:

Oh yea, why would they take away TM 30? It is the corruption money.

To bloody right,immigration are blackmailing long term expats who don't pay the fine for landlords/housemasters who fail to report the longterm expats who do 90 day reporting,pay up or piss off.Pay the fine or get deported,sounds like someone should call their bluff refuse to pay the fine and get deported and see how that goes down with the international media and human right groups! 

[KhaoYai]

One thing I took from what I've watched of the video so far, is that meetings with Thai authorities should not take place without an interpretor putting the questions to them in Thai.  It was clear to me that they, especially the General, did not fully understand the questions put - on more than one occasion his answer had nothing to do with the question. Admitting it and asking for an explanation would mean a serious loss of face in their way of thinking.

 

In their defence, it can't be easy when you have a bunch of foreigners, all speaking English but some with quite strong accents. I don't know about other member's experiences but I've often said something to my Thai friends and realised later that they didn't understand. Do they ask you to explain? No.

 

I strongly suspect that the 2 policemen went home from the meeting still not aware of what foreigners concerns over TM30 really are.

 

One other point - the guy from the Chamber of Trade - I think he's an Aussie but said he was Thai - naturalised?? Anyway, he suggested ex pats go through a vetting procedure when they apply to live in Thailand as is done in Australia. Jesus H Christ, can you imagine that? Crazy idea! That guy would make a good politician - replace a difficult and pointless policy with one even more difficult and totally pointless. Oh, and cost the country/applicants a fortune in doing so. Thai Immigration can't even cope with the system they have - please don't suggest they introduce more bureaucracy.

 

As has been said hundreds of times - anyone entering Thailand with criminal intentions is unlikely to register for TM30 and they are unlikely to register for anything if any vetting procedure is brought in. Criminals not only break the law, they don't care about petty immigration issues. They can vet as many applicants for long term residency as they like, it won't catch criminals. Do they intend vetting tourists too?

 

Thailand is not different to many countries that have land borders - if you really want to enter without announcing it, its pretty easy to do.  My ex wife came from a small village not so far from Yasothon. The village itself was not so far from the Mekong river. Village residents regularly used an unnofficial crossing there to visit a market in Laos, I went myself once.

 

 

[Scott]

Inflammatory post reported and removed along with reply.

 

[FarFlungFalang]

35 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Village residents regularly used an unnofficial crossing there to visit a market in Laos, I went myself once.

Oh you evil international criminal it's people like you who give us bad types a good name.I've often been tempted to do it myself just for the fun of it,but I might save it as an emergency exit.

  Threatening people with deportation for not paying the fine for someone else's non compliance is in fact extortion and should be treated as such.

[Jorgendk]

Keep complaining about the TM30, and they might drop it, and implement a GMS tracker into the Visa instead.

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, Tomahawk21 said:

if i am on a retirement visa, get an exit visa to go out of Thailand do i need to report back to immigration to do a TM30 on my return ? i am a house owner here not staying in rental accommodation should that make any difference. thx

 

 

First, I imagine you are talking about having an extension of stay based on retirement - not a visa. Also, I think you mean Re-entry permit as there is no such thing as an exit visa.

 

There is no straight answer, because my immigration do not require me to report on my return.

 

Condo ownership is irrelevant.

[sniggie]

11 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Oh you evil international criminal it's people like you who give us bad types a good name.I've often been tempted to do it myself just for the fun of it,but I might save it as an emergency exit.

  Threatening people with deportation for not paying the fine for someone else's non compliance is in fact extortion and should be treated as such.

Last year I visited a town on the Myanmar border with an obvious, legitimate border crossing point. A mile or so along the river was a less legitimate crossing point over to a casino and duty free shop. So I went across for fun. Found that I could buy Lagavulin (which seems to be unavailable in Thailand). So, worth the boat ride.   

[FarFlungFalang]

4 minutes ago, sniggie said:

Last year I visited a town on the Myanmar border with an obvious, legitimate border crossing point. A mile or so along the river was a less legitimate crossing point over to a casino and duty free shop. So I went across for fun. Found that I could buy Lagavulin (which seems to be unavailable in Thailand). So, worth the boat ride.   

I get my fun when I do my border run I check out of Thailand and check straight back in without entering neighbouring country.Works about 4 out of 5 attempts.Law says leave Thailand but no mention of enter another country.

[sniggie]

7 hours ago, CaptainJack said:

I don't want to live under the ever increasingly oppressive rules.  But again,  why did it really effect me?  That is simply.  I did not move to Thailand to just sit at home with my girlfriend and watch television.   We were taking weekend trips all over Thailand,  staying at local cottages she knew about and the occasional hotel.

 

I liked the (admittedly third-hand) quote from an Immigration Officer. 'Don't travel so much, then'. Unbelievable! 

[Denim]

5 minutes ago, sniggie said:

I liked the (admittedly third-hand) quote from an Immigration Officer. 'Don't travel so much, then'. Unbelievable! 

 

Actually, this is Thailand so not only believable but almost normal.

[Sparkles]

I sat through the whole video and its obvious they don't want & will not change.They simply can't adjust their mind set to change, we go back to what they had 40 yrs ago.

 

TM 30 has no effect on the criminals and scammers that come from abroad neither do they accept there is corruption amongst there own people. They have already suspended some Imm officials for bribery.

 

I got fined 1600 b in Chiang Mai for not submitting a TM 30 even though the last time I went out of the country there was no TM 30. Same address for 12 yrs.The officers only reply when I objected was "Orders from Bangkok"

The guy in front of me a man from Holland had been here 27 yrs at the same address he was also fined 1,600 baht.No discretion, no common sense just a revenue raiser.

[Peterw42]

14 minutes ago, Sparkles said:

I sat through the whole video and its obvious they don't want & will not change.They simply can't adjust their mind set to change, we go back to what they had 40 yrs ago.

They are not going to admit to faults or promise changes at the meeting, that is the very definition of loosing face, they will be more likely to announce in a couple of weeks that they have found a problem and they are making it better.

I think some changes will come out of this but it would never be presented as reacting to public pressure or in response to someone telling them its wrong.

[Jiggo]

Too many honest people on this thread, I never go anywhere.

[Jumbo1968]

2 hours ago, Tomahawk21 said:

if i am on a retirement visa, get an exit visa to go out of Thailand do i need to report back to immigration to do a TM30 on my return ? i am a house owner here not staying in rental accommodation should that make any difference. thx

I was told by Jomtien if on a Retirement Visa reporting wasn’t necessary.

[jackdd]

This whole panel is just a joke.

Richard Barrow and Sebastian Brousseau like to bring up immigration act section 37 (4) many times, but it looks like they don't even understand it. Especially from a lawyer you would expect them to read the law first. Tourists as well as people on businness and education visas (and some other groups as well) are exempt from this section.

People on retirement and marriage visas are not exempt, but this most likely just is the case because when they introduced these visa types they forgot that there is section 37 (3) and (4), because it was not enforced. And they forgot to make these new visas exempt as well. But this could easily be changed, all it needs is a ministerial order. Currently it's not relevant anyway, because this law is just not enforced.

 

The Thai lawyer woman who tries to make a joke about paying the fine... She doesn't report the foreigner (her husband), if she gets fined she expects that her husband gives here the money back. This mentality, shown by some IOs as well, is exactly what so many complain about. Why should a foreigner have to pay the fine when a Thai does wrong.

 

Then there is Chris Larkin, who just seems to have no idea about a variety of topics, but likes to talk a lot.

He suggests a stricter vetting procedure, to allow people to stay longer in Thailand. At this point i wondered if he ever heard of permanent residency, because this is exactly that.

Then he says that Thailand has a working registration, and foreigners could be part of this as well. Foreigners can be part of it (yellow book), but this system isn't working at all. If somebody would make a statistic about the percentage of people who live where they are registered this is probably way less than 50 percent, doesn't he know such basic things?

At 1:26:50 Sebastian actually brings up an interesting question for the IO, but instead of letting the IO answer, Chris Larking jumps in and helps the IO to avoid this critical question.

 

The immigration officers... i wonder if immigration just wants to troll. They send immigration officers who can't really speak english, to take part in a panel hold in english. They didn't even understand half of the questions. And many other questions were simply left unanswered, because can't lose face.

Why did nobody jump in and translated the questions for them?

[the guest]

How many foreigners are flocking to other Asian countries, where they are treated with respect and not like criminals? 

 

Carry-on with your xenophobia at your peril. 

 

The power has always been with foreigners, without which, the country would collapse. 

[sfokevin]

10 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

Thailand is Thailand they have their rules and regulations, as I said before leave if you don’t like it. 

Foreigners are wanted they just want too know where you are, I can’t see a problem with that.

You are obviously not a history buff... 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism

[luckyluke]

11 minutes ago, the guest said:

How many foreigners are flocking to other Asian countries,

Would be interesting if there were data available.

 

Of course some will proclaim the numbers are incorrect, if they are not the ones they believe they should be. 

[TRJ82]

You should also focus on the 90 day reporting

[Peterw42]

35 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

I was told by Jomtien if on a Retirement Visa reporting wasn’t necessary.

They wont ask for it, its still a requirement by law.  you are not exempt from TM30s, jomtien just doesnt check.

The "local" policy could change overnight as it did in Bangkok.

[Jumbo1968]

11 hours ago, Wake Up said:

Great for you. What is your point. Not everyone lives close to immigration and not everyone travels once in a great while. Some of us travel weekly and live a long way from immigration. Feel better now. You are special. 55555

As I have said many times if you don’t like the rules and regulations albeit they can be inconsistent move on too some where else, I am sure you would find something too complain about there.

[Jumbo1968]

2 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

To bloody right,immigration are blackmailing long term expats who don't pay the fine for landlords/housemasters who fail to report the longterm expats who do 90 day reporting,pay up or piss off.Pay the fine or get deported,sounds like someone should call their bluff refuse to pay the fine and get deported and see how that goes down with the international media and human right groups! 

International Media won’t be interested, you didn’t abide by the rules and regulations albeit in consistent so what do you expect.