Hanging kitchen cabinet from the ceiling, falling down.

[up2you2]

Hanging by a thread.
My wife kindly pointed out that my hanging kitchen cabinets are imminent of falling down.
Some images attached.

The good news is the three fixture supports coming down from the ceiling are sound, no problems are visible.
Where the cabinets have been joined to these supports, as you can see, it has already come away on the end one.
The kitchen company have suggested installing and attaching a metal sheet plate to the top of the cabinets.
Then in turn attaching the metal plate cum cabinets to the supports.

My concerned is as follows.
The doors alone of the cabinets are very heavy.
The four plate glass shelves even more so.
Add the weight of what you put into these cabinets, then my concern here is how much would the weight of a metal sheet add to the problem.
In so much it might then start to effect the supports that go into the ceiling.

Any constuctive thoughts and advise would be greatly appreciated.

[CharlieH]

That appears to be screws through chipboard ? That is a weak combination for a load, especially over time. I would "sandwich plate the top" and inside the cupboard with a wider plate to disperse the load pull over a larger area.

 example: a 6"in square plate inside the cupboard with mini nut/bolt through to a 6" plate on top.

 

Just a suggestion

[johng]

I would have some  metal 90 degree brackets made (or bought but probably need custom made) 

bolt them to the existing metal ceiling braces and screw them into the inside of the vertical panels of the cabinet

but if the whole cabinet is made of  "chipboard" it will continue falling apart...horrid stuff !!!  ????

[up2you2]

6 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

That appears to be screws through chipboard ? That is a weak combination for a load, especially over time. I would "sandwich plate the top" and inside the cu[board with a wider plate to disperse the load pull over a larger area.

 example: a 6"in square plate inside the cupboard with mini nut/bolt through to a 6" plate on top.

 

Just a suggestion

Just a suggestion but an excellent one - thank you.

I was thinking about something like this myself.

[Artisi]

What is the ceiling and how are the hangers fixed at this point? 

[Denim]

Could get some matching wooden pillar supports to put underneath and hold them up. A much stronger alternative and not necessarily unattractive.

[up2you2]

7 minutes ago, Artisi said:

What is the ceiling and how are the hangers fixed at this point? 

Good question, and the honest answer is I had no idea.

When constructing the property, I did not go into the finer points, on reflection I wish I had.

I employed so called professionals, but as you can see I have come unstuck.

I feel the ceiling supports are strong enough, but needless to say I don't wish to overload them.

[bankruatsteve]

Can you put something under the extended end to support from the bottom?  Even a single rod would probably do it.

 

Oops, I just noticed Denim beat me to it.  Unless that completely screws the look you wanted, I think best, then you shouldn't have to worry about load.

Edited August 16, 2019 by bankruatsteve

[sometimewoodworker]

41 minutes ago, Denim said:

Could get some matching wooden pillar supports to put underneath and hold them up. A much stronger alternative and not necessarily unattractive.

That is going to be the best answer. Regrettably the cabinets look to be constructed of chipboard and nothing that you do to the top is going to look good while being strong enough. 

 

You will need to add a board running the length of the cabinets, lucky it looks as if there is a decorative skirt possibly holding concealed lighting, then a car bottle jack (they are very cheap) can lift the cabinets up enough to fit one or 2 support posts about 40cm from the end and directly over the end of the base cabinets. (Roughly in line with where the handbag is now) be very careful with placing thr jack as it is only too easy to snap the end of the work surface off.

 

If you do that it will loose the look of floating cabinets but be the fastest best looking fix available. 

Edited August 16, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[CharlieH]

Another option is to put a full length support unti under.

 

something like this: with glass shelf to match upper unit.

[eyecatcher]

I would also do something like Charlie said, but utilise the predrilled holes in the hanging plate.

Maybe fix a square of plywood to the top inside of the cupboard, then drill right through the ply from those existing holes, then drop the nuts and bolts thro them all.

I wouldnt think a jack is nec as tightening the bolts will pull the cabinets up.

[Artisi]

54 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Another option is to put a full length support unti under.

 

something like this: with glass shelf to match upper unit.

Could be the way to go. 

With the whole cabinet constructed from fibre board, I wouldn't trust Grandma's hand cut crystal glasses and water jug on display to survive the inevitable failure of the partial board suspended cabinet. 

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, eyecatcher said:

I would also do something like Charlie said, but utilise the predrilled holes in the hanging plate.

Maybe fix a square of plywood to the top inside of the cupboard, then drill right through the ply from those existing holes, then drop the nuts and bolts thro them all.

I wouldnt think a jack is nec as tightening the bolts will pull the cabinets up.

You can certainly try that but 400 Baht spent on a bottle jack is going to give you a much better chance of anything working. 

 

There is a very significant difference between the strain pulling the cabinets up into place and that of holding them in place once they at the correct height. Pulling them up gives ample opportunity for more bad things to happen.

[JimmyTheMook]

Rip the whole assembly down and have it installed correctly.

 

Those pics are hilarious. 

[eyecatcher]

9 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You can certainly try that but 400 Baht spent on a bottle jack is going to give you a much better chance of anything working. 

 

There is a very significant difference between the strain pulling the cabinets up into place and that of holding them in place once they at the correct height. Pulling them up gives ample opportunity for more bad things to happen.

Yes of course I would take the strain, but a simple chock of scant as a sliding prop and a mallet is all thats nec. Not sure anyone would go to buy some jacks. Airbags would be useful if they had them here, popular with weedy joiners hanging doors.

[tjo o tjim]

The weight is designed to be carried by the vertical boards; you need a real structure to transfer the loads to these boards for anything to work.  The flat chip board on the top cannot support the load period.  

 

You have likely done too much damage to the unit to make it salvageable.  At a minimum take the cabines down and inspect/reinforce them.  Provide a metal L-bracket at the top of the shelves (concealed) that ties into the vertical boards with the drilled round nuts (cam-lock nuts) in a horizontal plane ~30cm below the top of the boards in two or three locations per board.  

 

Since it seems like threaded screws have been used in tension into particle board, your only other option is to support it from below as others mentioned.

[sirineou]

Who ever hung these cabinets had no idea how cabinets are constructed, and how loads are distributed.These cabinets were not designed for ceiling hanging, I don't see any structural members transferring the load from the top to the rest of the cabinet, thus the separation  ..

    Without getting technical.  

because your cabinets are open both front and back, you need to transfer the load from pulling the top off the cabinets to pushing the bottom into the cabinet, In other words , Hung the floor of the cabinets, not the top

You can easily do this by attaching a thin threaded rod to the already existing metal plate they installed on the top. running it through the cabinet , through the floor and attaching it to a strip of  metal or wood to match the cabinet under the floor. You can place the threaded rods near the separating  cabinet walls so that they are not visible. One in the front and one in the back. You will need 4 threaded rods.

The sketch below is not in scale

 

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by sirineou

[tjo o tjim]

17 hours ago, sirineou said:

Who ever hung these cabinets had no idea how cabinets are constructed, and how loads are distributed.These cabinets were not designed for ceiling hanging, I don't see any structural members transferring the load from the top to the rest of the cabinet, thus the separation  ..

    Without getting technical.  

because your cabinets are open both front and back, you need to transfer the load from pulling the top off the cabinets to pushing the bottom into the cabinet, In other words , Hung the floor of the cabinets, not the top

You can easily do this by attaching a thin threaded rod to the already existing metal plate they installed on the top.

 

Not sure that will work; you don’t have anything to transfer the load from the cantilevered end. The top support needs to be extended at the end so each vertical has support. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 3:45 AM, JimmyTheMook said:

Rip the whole assembly down and have it installed correctly.

 

Those pics are hilarious. 

Agreed, but also replace chipboard with something decent. I'd also be concerned about what the rods are attached to in the ceiling.

Otherwise the only sure cure is supports underneath, but make sure they are over a vertical board or they may break through the counter top.

[sirineou]

4 hours ago, tjo o tjim said:

Not sure that will work; you don’t have anything to transfer the load from the cantilevered end. The top support needs to be extended at the end so each vertical has support. 

Transferring loads is what I do for a living. I design and construct custom concrete forms for a large high rise construction company. They need to be constructed and supported  in such a way that they don't blow out under the load of the poure.

In concrete the threaded rod is usually replaced by snap ties. or flat ties where the ends snap off after the form is striped, threaded rod is also used in some applications such as Doka forms . So trust me, if the structural integrity of the cabinets is not  degraded beyond repair, the remedy I propose will work.

 I am not there to inspect the actual cabinet and determine if it deserves saving but if it does. the remedy I propose will certainly work. In essence it composes a sling in which the cabinet hungs.

The end near the wall did not need to be hung because it is supported by the wall , the cantilevered ends will be hung by the threaded rods  as indicated by the red lines(Threaded because it is easy to find and attach , but it could be anything)  and inside the cabinet so that they will be hidden and not an eyesore.

  

Edited August 19, 2019 by sirineou

[tjo o tjim]

@sirineou, you are asking the top and bottom boards on the cabinet to carry the cantilever in moment, individually, half each, since there is no shear panel on either face.  The threaded rods are a great idea; I just think one is needed at the end if we are talking about particle board here.

[taninthai]

Do you really like the cabinets ,,do you really need them....

i think I would just take them out altogether if it was my place ,they seem to obstruct the breakfast bar as well looks like can only sit one side of it.