Siamburi's today.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, JAG said:

A group within Parliament seeks to take control of the Government of The United Kingdom, for a specific purpose, preventing The UK from leaving the European Union.

 

In the referendum on leaving the UK, held in 2016, a simple majority, 51% to 48% responded to a simple binary question, and voted for the UK to leave the UK The turnout was 72%

 

In a general election held subsequently, in 2017, of 650 parliamentary seats in the UK parliament, 579 were won by two parties (Labour and Conservative) which both campaigned on a platform of honouring that referendum result, and leaving the EU. The Conservatives, as the largest party in Parliament, formed a government (supported by the Ulster Unionists). Turnout in this election was 68%, of whom 82% voted for candidates belonging to parties whose manifestos were to honour and elect that referendum result.

 

The resulting  government introduced an Act of Parliament which was passed (with a substantial) majority in parliament, and subsequently became law, whose purpose was to take the UK out of the EU.

 

In the EU elections this year, 43 out of 73 seats were won by parties which were committed to taking the UK out of the EU.

 

The electorate have, 3 times in four years, declared through the ballot box, using a referendum vote with a simple question and a simple majority, first past the post constituency elections and proportional representation elections their wish for the UK to leave the EU. The government has passed an Act of Parliament which states that the UK will leave, and has set an (amended) date of October the 31st. The government have categorically stated that they will not amend that date again. This group has no mandate for what they propose. If they succeed in deposing the government then a general election will follow. That election will almost certainly be held after October the 31st. It is not a case of a caretaker government taking a decision which it is not entitled to take - the decision was quite properly, legally and constitutionally taken over several years. The voters (three times) and the Parliament which they elected have said we will leave, so leave we should.

Thanks for the excellent summary of events and facts! A good reminder for remainers.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Thanks for the excellent summary of events and facts! A good reminder for remainers.

And here's a reminder for Brexiteers:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/no-deal-brexit-boris-public-opinion-poll-against-delay-cancel-second-referendum-a9062686.html

 

[transam]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And here's a reminder for Brexiteers:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/no-deal-brexit-boris-public-opinion-poll-against-delay-cancel-second-referendum-a9062686.html

 

You do like "What the papers say", or should I say what a reporter says, bet you were a Beano and Dandy kid eh...????

[david555]

Let me take some scare away for a permanent J.C. as P.M. …, conditions for a E.U. extension given  (when asked by U.K.) , is a G.E. or a new referendum ...

So he would be bound by calling that , and then it is up again for each party to run to win , so don't get so scary right wingers ,you get another chance ...

Edited August 17, 2019 by david555

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, transam said:

You do like "What the papers say", or should I say what a reporter says, bet you were a Beano and Dandy kid eh...????

Right, so the papers are all telling lies. 

 

Only you and your fellow Brexiteers know the truth. 

[transam]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Right, so the papers are all telling lies. 

 

Only you and your fellow Brexiteers know the truth. 

Hey, I never said they were telling lies did I, it's just you seem to continually follow what a reporter says and post it here as "gospel"...?

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Hey, I never said they were telling lies did I, it's just you seem to continually follow what a reporter says and post it here as "gospel"...?

Read the report and give it a go. 

 

Though I suggest you skip the video at the top of the page, its just bluster and thrashing  about with no substance.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Chomper Higgot

[nauseus]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And here's a reminder for Brexiteers:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/no-deal-brexit-boris-public-opinion-poll-against-delay-cancel-second-referendum-a9062686.html

 

Ah. A poll cited by the Independent. Rather different from the results in a similar poll in the Telegraph!

 

Probably best to take polls with a pinch of salt.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Ah. A poll cited by the Independent. Rather different from the results in a similar poll in the Telegraph!

 

Probably best to take polls with a pinch of salt.

I think it very advisable to take anything Johnson says with a pinch salt. 

 

As the article points out, in 2016 Johnson was telling the nation that Brexit would deliver a better deal. 

 

Now he's telegraphing he can't deliver.

 

And of course its always somebody else's fault. 

 

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think it very advisable to take anything Johnson says with a pinch salt. 

 

As the article points out, in 2016 Johnson was telling the nation that Brexit would deliver a better deal. 

 

Now he's telegraphing he can't deliver.

 

And of course its always somebody else's fault. 

 

My change of subject alarm just went off.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

My change of subject alarm just went off.

Forgive me, I'm simply reminding you it might not be the 'Anti-Brexit party' that scuppers Brexit. 

[dunroaming]

The real question here is will Johnson do another U-turn and agree to scrap the leaving with no deal option?  It has always been Boris's dream to be PM no matter what and he doesn't give a fig about anything else.  So if he feels threatened by the uprising he may well just back down and we end up with a watered down Brexit after all.  He will then blame everyone else and the country will remain just as divided as it is now.

 

As for Corbyn as a "temporary" PM in order to get a general election launched?  My original response was (after I had stopped laughing) something about hell freezing over first.  But we are in unprecedented territory here and such is the importance of stopping Johnsons suicidal "no deal" scenario, anything is possible.  MUCH better to have Clark or Harman leading the pack but you need to have Labour on board and if they insist on Corbyn then they might get their way.

 

As I said, I think it is more likely that Johnson will fold over the no deal option, after all he said it was a million to one against happening.  And of course he is a snivelling coward when it comes to his principles.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Forgive me, I'm simply reminding you it might not be the 'Anti-Brexit party' that scuppers Brexit. 

Maybe I should change the settings?

[dunroaming]

Here's something to muse over.  Let's just imagine for a moment that Johnson is stopped and we have another general election.  That election would be massively influenced by the different parties opinion on Brexit.  We all know the Lib Dem position of wanting to scrap it but what would be the election pitch for the Tories and Labour?  Labour would probably run on the promise to go for a soft Brexit and staying in the customs union and single market.  In other words the same position they have now.  But how would the Tories pitch it?  Would Johnson dust himself off and remain PM?  Clearly they would have to change his Gung Ho approach to stand any chance of winning.  Given the complete pig's ear they made of their first attempt at delivering Brexit, just what would their tactics be this time.  A second referendum?  A soft Brexit?

 

 

[hotelbri]

19 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Here's something to muse over.  Let's just imagine for a moment that Johnson is stopped and we have another general election.  That election would be massively influenced by the different parties opinion on Brexit.  We all know the Lib Dem position of wanting to scrap it but what would be the election pitch for the Tories and Labour?  Labour would probably run on the promise to go for a soft Brexit and staying in the customs union and single market.  In other words the same position they have now.  But how would the Tories pitch it?  Would Johnson dust himself off and remain PM?  Clearly they would have to change his Gung Ho approach to stand any chance of winning.  Given the complete pig's ear they made of their first attempt at delivering Brexit, just what would their tactics be this time.  A second referendum?  A soft Brexit?

 

 

You forgot the Bexit Party..

[JAG]

15 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

 But how would the Tories pitch it?  Would Johnson dust himself off and remain PM?  Clearly they would have to change his Gung Ho approach to stand any chance of winning.  Given the complete pig's ear they made of their first attempt at delivering Brexit, just what would their tactics be this time.  A second referendum?  A soft Brexit?

 

 

Or perhaps a manifesto pledge to leave the UK, in accordance with the EU Withdrawal act: a general election does not cancel that act remember - it remains the law until repealed, So, a manifesto pledge to leave the EU, with a renegotiated deal if the EU will negotiate, or with no deal should they either refuse to negotiate or insist on unacceptable decisions.

 

Worth musing as to how that would stand with the electorate isn't it, especially compared with Labours apparent "soft Brexit, not really leaving, continuing to give the EU loads of the taxpayers money and doing what they tell us" stance, and the Liberal Democrats "no matter what you (the voters) say, we're keeping the UK in the EU" declared intent.

[JAG]

8 minutes ago, hotelbri said:

You forgot the Bexit Party..

Which would probably fold its tents and steal away into the night if the Tory stance was as I described in post no 46 above.

Edited August 17, 2019 by JAG

[Jip99]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The games not yet over.

 

 

Unfortunately, that is exactly what it has become.

[JAG]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The games not yet over.

 

56 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Unfortunately, that is exactly what it has become.

It is, rather, deadly serious. The "gamers" as we may call them have taken the position that they are to ignore the three time declared intent of the electorate, and to further ignore the decision of parliament to acknowledge and abide by that intent; an act  (EU Withdrawal Act) which was constitutionally passed into law - a process which, astonishingly, a good few of those who are now "gaming" actually helped to pass, either/both as MPs who voted for it, or as ministers who were part of the government which introduced it! If they were ministers, then they could have been released from their collective responsibility by resigning over the issue - an honourable position - but they didn't. did they, Mr Hammond?

 

The game starts with the premise that they (the gamers) have the right and duty to now prevent this from happening. I am sure that they, and their supporters on this board, feel that they can justify their actions, but I have yet to hear any convincing justifications of this fundamental refusal to consider the settled and repeatedly expressed wishes of the British electorate. "We know better, and don't want to leave", (which is what it boils down to) is not that justification.

Edited August 17, 2019 by JAG

[nauseus]

17 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I'm marching are you ?

 

Organisers announce plans for the 'biggest political protest in British history' to stop Brexit

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/people-s-vote-brexit-protest-october-2019-1-6211767

Why don't they have it in Sunderland for a change?

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, hotelbri said:

You forgot the Bexit Party..

No I didn't, I only mentioned the relevant parties when it comes to government.  Anything with Farage in only deserves ridicule and disdain.

 

[JAG]

7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Why don't they have it in Sunderland for a change?

It is north of the Watford Gap. Can't get a decent skinny latte for love nor money, and my dear chap, have you just seen the whippets?

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

Or perhaps a manifesto pledge to leave the UK, in accordance with the EU Withdrawal act: a general election does not cancel that act remember - it remains the law until repealed, So, a manifesto pledge to leave the EU, with a renegotiated deal if the EU will negotiate, or with no deal should they either refuse to negotiate or insist on unacceptable decisions.

 

Worth musing as to how that would stand with the electorate isn't it, especially compared with Labours apparent "soft Brexit, not really leaving, continuing to give the EU loads of the taxpayers money and doing what they tell us" stance, and the Liberal Democrats "no matter what you (the voters) say, we're keeping the UK in the EU" declared intent.

But isn't that what the Tories are now?  They have to take no-deal off of the table completely are they won't get the votes they need. That is why everyone is revolting against Johnson.  Expecting the EU to change their position is all a bit pie in the sky, I would have thought.

[Jip99]

18 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I'm marching are you ?

 

Organisers announce plans for the 'biggest political protest in British history' to stop Brexit

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/people-s-vote-brexit-protest-october-2019-1-6211767

 

 

You should look impressive wth your “F&#k Brexit” wristband.

 

Make sure to wear your Singha singlet, it will set it off nicely.

 

 

I suppose, being one of the 41% minority in Kent, it will make you feel better going up to town.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Jip99

[nauseus]

17 minutes ago, JAG said:

 

It is, rather, deadly serious. The "gamers" as we may call them have taken the position that they are to ignore the three time declared intent of the electorate, and to further ignore the decision of parliament to acknowledge and abide by that intent; an act  (EU Withdrawal Act) which was constitutionally passed into law - a process which, astonishingly, a good few of those who are now "gaming" actually helped to pass, either/both as MPs who voted for it, or as ministers who were part of the government which introduced it! If they were ministers, then they could have been released from their collective responsibility by resigning over the issue - an honourable position - but they didn't. did they, Mr Hammond?

 

The game starts with the premise that they (the gamers) have the right and duty to now prevent this from happening. I am sure that they, and their supporters on this board, feel that they can justify their actions, but I have yet to hear any convincing justifications of this fundamental refusal to consider the settled and repeatedly expressed wishes of the British electorate. "We know better, and don't want to leave", (which is what it boils down to) is not that justification.

Another cracking post, thanks. 

 

These second-rate excuses for politicians don't care really about a deal, or a even second vote (which they know they would probably lose): they just want stop Brexit with a parliamentary coup d'état, to remove government so that they can attempt to revoke Article 50. Anyone upset by Brexit now, will certainly enjoy the outcome far less, if British democracy is allowed to be run over this. 

 

 

[Baerboxer]

7 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

This post should be a pinned topic.

 

It states exactly where we are and should act as a preventative to the whining remainers who said "It's not fair......blah, blah".

 

With your permission JAG, I would like to post your erudite words on some other  local forums.

 

Yeah, right. Heaven forbid anyone dare change their mind.

 

Do you seriously think the current collection of self interested inept clowns can actually lead the country anywhere?

[nauseus]

18 minutes ago, JAG said:

It is north of the Watford Gap. Can't get a decent skinny latte for love nor money, and my dear chap, have you just seen the whippets?

Oh yeah. Forgot, lattes and milk shakes. London again it is then. Easy for the Eurostar too. 

 

Be back in a whippet!

 

 

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

Which would probably fold its tents and steal away into the night if the Tory stance was as I described in post no 46 above.

 

As a limited company it would have to follow the rules for the dissolving of a limited company. Then they could pack up and piss-off.

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Yeah, right. Heaven forbid anyone dare change their mind.

 

Do you seriously think the current collection of self interested inept clowns can actually lead the country anywhere?

 

 

Yep....out of the EU.

 

Then with clowns to the left of me, jokers right, we can reset the clock and look for statesmen to come out of the woodwork. 

 

But I think you are right, self-interest has taken over.

[Baerboxer]

21 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Looks like he is confident Scotland is in the bag ????????????

 

Nigel Farage cancels Scotland leg of UK tour as events calendar is 'trimmed down'

 

"The Brexit Party had admitted it has had to 'trim down' part of Nigel Farage's UK tour - removing Scotland from its calendar of events.

It is not the first time Nigel Farage has had problems packing out a room on a tour date.

Farage's Syndney tour date was moved to a smaller room after he failed to fill a 2,500-seat venue, despite a reduction in ticket prices.

In 2017 his one-man show in Clacton was outsold by an Elvis tribute act. As of the day before the gig, he'd sold just 179 of the 802 available tickets."

 

He should come to Bangkok. Plenty of Farage fan boys here it would appear.