Details of mandatory health insurance for Non-Imm O-A visas to be announced next week

[Melbun]

28 minutes ago, highonthai said:

Therein lies the problem. With many of the foreign tourists that take a header and need assistance while here, the hospital will give life or death emergency service. And until you can prove that you can pay it goes no farther, and you will be transferred to a government facility. In the last few years I've had several acquaintances and one friend that had no money to pay their bills. In the case of the friend that crashed his motorcycle, his family in the UK didn't even have the money to fly over to help their father. His daughter in the UK started a go fund me page which made us (some of his friends) angry. We passed around the hat and helped out. He was not in a financial position to take care of his hospital bills. He is still bed ridden with major head trauma. 

Should a THAI hospital or THAI government pay for his financial irresponsibility?   I don't think so...

 

I'm for some sort of Mandatory or proof of insurance tourist or Expat. And I don't think that there is a good argument against that.

Good sensible man. I want that extended to compulsory comprehensive travel insurance on arrival - for the duration of the visit. I'm amazed governments haven't insisted on that "yet".

[Melbun]

9 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

How do you propose those tourists who have a tie-in between their Platinum credit card "prove" they have insurance? It's automatically triggered the moment they charge some or all of their trip to the card (depends on the conditions in the policy) - there's no certificate to say they're insured. As well, many policies deny cover for motorcycle accidents and other "dangerous" pursuits. AFAIK the Thai BUPA policy only covers 50% of any motorcycle accident costs

The powers that be can have lists of acceptable insurance published. The ones that give comprehensive, unlimited medical and evacuation insurance. If not more. It's just fine tuning .

PS - I think (although unsavory to some) is to live in your place of birth and do frequent visits to Thailand. Cost of travel insurance is minimal - most companies can even insure the very elderly without fuss and you have the best of both worlds (even medical evacuation back to your homeland). Why drop anchor and try to blend into a foreign culture.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Melbun

[highonthai]

How do I propose that someone prove insurance coverage?

I don't, that's not for me to decide how the Thai government runs their country.

Bottom line is if your insurance only covers 50% as you say, you better dam well stay off motorcycles or have the funds to cover yourself. If you don't have the funds to have insurance you probably should't be gallivanting around the world. 

(sp)

Edited August 22, 2019 by highonthai

[AJS150654]

Hard to believe this is due to hospital debts owed by expats. I was recently scheduled to be admitted for surgery on the Sunday night of a recent long weekend and my "very thoughtful" left it until the Saturday to advise the hospital I wod have to pay up front, because the insurer wanted to check if I was claiming for a pre existing illness. I was told by the hospital I had to find 260,000 baht in a hurry, or cancel the surgery, this is why I can't believe it is about ex pat debts. Nearly a month later I am still waiting on a decision about the claim.

 

If the Government are concerned about expat debts, why are they only targetting new Visa applicants, if existing expats are the supposed problem.

[brewsterbudgen]

Sure, where UK is concerned anyway:
 
Thais (and all nationalities) receive free emergency treatment at all hospitals.  
 
Elective surgery is not free, but there again there isn't the regime of marching a sick person off to an ATM, and enforcement is difficult in practice.
 
Some visa types include comprehensive coverage at a very reasonable price.
 
I would be surprised if Australia is much different, but would be interested to know.

Immigrants have to pay a NHS surcharge as part of the Settlement visa process and then pay again for Leave to Remain.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Angry Dragon]

2 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

OK, knocked off a motorcycle, arrive at nearest hospital unconscious. What do you suggest happens next?

Have a "hospital card" on your person at all times, much like a Thai ID card, that includes contact details of someone with access to your financials who a hospital can contact upon your arrival.  That contact would then wire over the necessary deposit or give insurance details.  The card is voluntary.  No card, then no acceptance at the hospital.

[roobaa01]

today is d-day, why have the mandatory health insurance details not been published yet ???? 

is it a hoax ??? i want clarity.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[Angry Dragon]

1 hour ago, Melbun said:

No, that would be completely amoral. It would be like saying show me your money or go somewhere else. Certainly The mandate of any hospital is to treat the sick. Settlement comes later. But the Thai's want to circumvent that  by insisting on health insurance for all long term residents. I would also be in favour of mandatory travel insurance at immigration on arrival.

It is equally amoral to live in a third or second world country without the ability to fund your health care and expect your the host country to pick up the bill.

 

[ThaiBunny]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

I would be surprised if Australia is much different, but would be interested to know.

In Australia you're not eligible for government subsidised health cover - doctors/hospitals - unless you have some form of path to permanent residence or are already a permanent resident. All international students (who are also entitled to work 20 hours/week) must pay for and show a certificate of insurance as a condition of their visa.  Temporary workers also. The kicker is that the medical levy is automatically deducted from all wages and then if you're exempt you claim it back in your annual tax return. No free rides there

 

You have to show your Medicare card every time you try to claim free medical treatment. There is NO requirement for tourists to show that they have travel insurance

Edited August 22, 2019 by ThaiBunny

[Melbun]

38 minutes ago, Angry Dragon said:

It is equally amoral to live in a third or second world country without the ability to fund your health care and expect your the host country to pick up the bill.

 

Another sensible man. Get the others to agree.

[Melbun]

1 hour ago, ThaiBunny said:

In Australia you're not eligible for government subsidised health cover - doctors/hospitals - unless you have some form of path to permanent residence or are already a permanent resident. All international students (who are also entitled to work 20 hours/week) must pay for and show a certificate of insurance as a condition of their visa.  Temporary workers also. The kicker is that the medical levy is automatically deducted from all wages and then if you're exempt you claim it back in your annual tax return. No free rides there

 

You have to show your Medicare card every time you try to claim free medical treatment. There is NO requirement for tourists to show that they have travel insurance

In the case of tourists with travel insurance. When they require medical services they are required to contact the Insurance company hotline (on every certificate) and the company will either allocate or deal with the issue of finding a medical provider. Unless very expensive, the insured person is generally required to pay the medical bill, and then make claims to the insurance company on completion of the holiday (with all receipts). Seems to work well. If for example you are a tourist in USA and you have an accident or fall seriously ill, the debts could be crippling and you may have to mortgage/lose your house to cover bills. Hence the importance of comprehensive travel insurance.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Melbun

[Angry Dragon]

39 minutes ago, Melbun said:

Another sensible man. Get the others to agree.

won't happen.  too many people want the ability to live a life of no responsibility for their actions, and not just the retired expats on TV.

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, Angry Dragon said:

t is equally amoral to live in a third or second world country without the ability to fund your health care and expect your the host country to pick up the bill.

The real amorality is any Healthcare system that operates on a for profit basis; coupled with for profit insurance which exists only to make money off the suffering of others and also include the Pharmaceutical industry that makes windfall profits because they are in bed with Insurance and for profit Hospitals.

 

I will say it again and keep saying it-  Healthcare is a human right to be provided at no cost other than what is paid for by recovery of basic costs.  In most ceveloped countrues- except the USA- Governments  run the healthcare system which is funded by  working citizens who pay a perecentage of their salary as taxes and by Government subsidies also paid by tax.  There are no such things as  pre-existing conditions; age related premiums or denials of coverage. Only for profit insurance adds these ccosts so they can drive up the premiums for everyone.

 

If I was to emigrate to Australia or to the UK or Japan- after a period of time- I could enter the countries healthcare scheme- I may have to pay a ceortain amunt to enter it but I would be part of the  system and thereafter pay the same amount or get it for free just as a citizen gets it.

 

The problem is that Thailand refuses to ackowledge that long term retireees and those foreigners married to Thais are not tourists- these people are the eqivalent of Non Immigrants that should have access to certain things Thai  citizens get. One of those things is access to the Thai Social Security system which for Healthcare access charges 457 Baht per month.  In addition- the Hospital could charge a 20% surcharge for service rendered, although it is my personal belief there should be no surcharge but a poossible joinging fee similar to the UK which charges 200 pounds.

 

 

Thailand, instead of following International Protocol  on Healthcare access  and like the USA wants to make a profit out of Healthcare and their proposal is to get 5 or 6 private insurance companues to provide a minimal amount of coverage for a maximum profit. If one reads through the provisions of these policies- there is littlke difference in cost=they are all high priced for low coverage none of which would even come close to paying for a catastrophic  illness.   One can only reason that this solution being proposed is for the benefit of the insurance inddustry and its shareholders.  It is a worthless exercise except for the private healthcare industry

 

The real solution is simple-

 

1.  Treat anyone with a one year Visa or 1 year exrension as a permanent nn immigrant and let them buy into the Thai Healthcare system with a modest surcharge.

 

2.  The rest of the entering tourists simply have an added fee of 500 Baht  placed on their airline ticket in which the monies go into a medical pool or a person can present their paid for  travel insurance to obviate the charge.

 

Every human being should have access to Healthcare- it is a human right- not a commodity to be parceled out to those who can pay the most.

[Melbun]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

The real amorality is any Healthcare system that operates on a for profit basis; coupled with for profit insurance which exists only to make money off the suffering of others and also include the Pharmaceutical industry that makes windfall profits because they are in bed with Insurance and for profit Hospitals.

 

I will say it again and keep saying it-  Healthcare is a human right to be provided at no cost other than what is paid for by recovery of basic costs.  In most ceveloped countrues- except the USA- Governments  run the healthcare system which is funded by  working citizens who pay a perecentage of their salary as taxes and by Government subsidies also paid by tax.  There are no such things as  pre-existing conditions; age related premiums or denials of coverage. Only for profit insurance adds these ccosts so they can drive up the premiums for everyone.

 

If I was to emigrate to Australia or to the UK or Japan- after a period of time- I could enter the countries healthcare scheme- I may have to pay a ceortain amunt to enter it but I would be part of the  system and thereafter pay the same amount or get it for free just as a citizen gets it.

 

The problem is that Thailand refuses to ackowledge that long term retireees and those foreigners married to Thais are not tourists- these people are the eqivalent of Non Immigrants that should have access to certain things Thai  citizens get. One of those things is access to the Thai Social Security system which for Healthcare access charges 457 Baht per month.  In addition- the Hospital could charge a 20% surcharge for service rendered, although it is my personal belief there should be no surcharge but a poossible joinging fee similar to the UK which charges 200 pounds.

 

 

Thailand, instead of following International Protocol  on Healthcare access  and like the USA wants to make a profit out of Healthcare and their proposal is to get 5 or 6 private insurance companues to provide a minimal amount of coverage for a maximum profit. If one reads through the provisions of these policies- there is littlke difference in cost=they are all high priced for low coverage none of which would even come close to paying for a catastrophic  illness.   One can only reason that this solution being proposed is for the benefit of the insurance inddustry and its shareholders.  It is a worthless exercise except for the private healthcare industry

 

The real solution is simple-

 

1.  Treat anyone with a one year Visa or 1 year exrension as a permanent nn immigrant and let them buy into the Thai Healthcare system with a modest surcharge.

 

2.  The rest of the entering tourists simply have an added fee of 500 Baht  placed on their airline ticket in which the monies go into a medical pool or a person can present their paid for  travel insurance to obviate the charge.

 

Every human being should have access to Healthcare- it is a human right- not a commodity to be parceled out to those who can pay the most.

Just read Angry Dragon. He makes sense. You are just intent on regurgitating the same self serving nonsense. As if - the health care industry should  not be in the business of making a profit. It's not a charity for anyone. But with your logic you want it that way. I'm not going to respond to you any more. Lest I get into trouble from the moderator. I'm sure you are baiting people or you believe that if you say the same stuff enough, you will believe it yourself.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Melbun

[Thaidream]

20 minutes ago, Melbun said:

Just read Angry Dragon. He makes sense. You are just intent on regurgitating the same self serving nonsense. As if - the health care industry should  not be in the business of making a profit. It's not a charity for anyone. But with your logic you want it that way. I'm not going to respond to you any more. Lest I get into trouble from the moderator. I'm sure you are baiting people or you believe that if you say the same stuff enough, you will believe it yourself

I do not post anything that baits people- I post what I believe and what I know to be true

 

You do not understand anything about the Health industry because if you did you would realize that Government run healthcare  is Non profit- they do not exist to make a profit.  The NHS in the UK does not operate on a for profit basis- they opereate on a cost recovery basis through taxes and some susidies- paid again by taxes.

 

There is  a big difference between a charity and a not for profit system.  You may want to do some research on this issue so you can provide a sensible and educated response to posters.

[Melbun]

12 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I do not post anything that baits people- I post what I believe and what I know to be true

 

You do not understand anything about the Health industry because if you did you would realize that Government run healthcare  is Non profit- they do not exist to make a profit.  The NHS in the UK does not operate on a for profit basis- they opereate on a cost recovery basis through taxes and some susidies- paid again by taxes.

 

There is  a big difference between a charity and a not for profit system.  You may want to do some research on this issue so you can provide a sensible and educated response to posters.

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Melbun

[Max69xl]

4 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

How do you propose those tourists who have a tie-in between their Platinum credit card and travel insurance "prove" they have insurance? It's automatically triggered the moment they charge some or all of their trip to the card (depends on the conditions in the policy) - there's no certificate to say they're insured. As well, many policies deny cover for motorcycle accidents and other "dangerous" pursuits. AFAIK the Thai BUPA policy only covers 50% of any motorcycle accident costs

Everyone with a travel/accident insurance can prove it. There's always something you can download and bring with you.

[Melbun]

3 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Everyone with a travel/accident insurance can prove it. There's always something you can download and bring with you.

Of course. I behooves everyone to not be a cheapskate with travel insurance. It is a safeguard to avert financial catastrophe after all. And the cost is minimal. Even older folk with some pre-existing illnesses (once declared) "may" be able to be covered. Often for a reasonable surcharge.

[ThaiBunny]

12 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Everyone with a travel/accident insurance can prove it. There's always something you can download and bring with you.

Yes, the Platinum credit card holder can download a copy of his standard insurance policy document from his card issuer's web site, together with his credit card statements showing that he paid for the trip with that credit card. I'm sure IOs will wave him through

 

https://mozo.com.au/travel/how-to-activate-free-travel-insurance-cover-on-your-credit-card

Edited August 22, 2019 by ThaiBunny

[Max69xl]

41 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

Yes, the Platinum credit card holder can download a copy of his standard insurance policy document from his card issuer's web site, together with his credit card statements showing that he paid for the trip with that credit card. I'm sure IOs will wave him through

 

https://mozo.com.au/travel/how-to-activate-free-travel-insurance-cover-on-your-credit-card

It doesn't matter where you get your travel/accident insurance. There's ALWAYS something you're supposed to download and print out or download to your phone. 

[Angry Dragon]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

The real amorality is any Healthcare system that operates on a for profit basis; coupled with for profit insurance which exists only to make money off the suffering of others and also include the Pharmaceutical industry that makes windfall profits because they are in bed with Insurance and for profit Hospitals.

 

This is going a bit into the existential now, and well beyond the scope of the original post.  But it's interesting nonetheless.

 

Arguing against a for-profit health care scheme is one thing, but saying that health care is a "right" is a bit much, unless you believe in slavery as well.  If it is indeed a "right", then others will therefore be forced to provide it to you.  What I think you really mean is that health care is better provided as a single payer system, rather than a for-profit system.  I would probably agree with that, as long as the single payer system benefits were limited to some pretty basic healthcare.  A single payer system where every ailment is fully provided for would go bankrupt in no time.  Even those with the most gold-plated insurance policies do not have that benefit.

 

getting back to Thailand, there is indeed a single payer system in place that is actually quite comprehensive.  Foreigners can participate in it as well as long as they have been working here and contribute to the Thai social security fund.  Over time, you can lock into the system by paying into it outside of work.  I recommend that anyone employed here and who desires to retire here to make sure they pay into the system when they quit working.

 

For other expats, your suggestion of allowing expats who retire here makes some sense, but if you think about it, those are the folks who will be in most need of medical care.  They are older and therefore most likely less healthy.  A working individual in his 20s shouldn't be subsidizing expat retirees by paying the same amount as the foreign retiree.  Instead, give them an option to pay into the government system at much higher prices.  I'll leave that to the bureaucrats who oversee the public health care system to work that figure out for us.

[ThaiBunny]

I'm bored. It's 3:15 and still no announcement. We were promised in the OP that the announcement would be today

[UKresonant]

What time do they normally release statements on such subjects?  Thought I would be reading the new detail over breakfast this morning.......????

[Max69xl]

On 8/18/2019 at 9:26 AM, Vacuum said:

Yes, but many expats can't get an insurance because of their age.

Everyone can get an insurance,it just gets really expensive when you are "over aged". That's the term they're using from 66 years of age and up. 

[ThaiBunny]

3 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Everyone can get an insurance,it just gets really expensive when you are "over aged". That's the term they're using from 66 years of age and up. 

No, they can't. If you're not already insured and over a certain age the companies won't take you on their books. If you are already insured and over that age then you will (probably) be renewed

[Thaidream]

41 minutes ago, Angry Dragon said:

For other expats, your suggestion of allowing expats who retire here makes some sense, but if you think about it, those are the folks who will be in most need of medical care.  They are older and therefore most likely less healthy.  A working individual in his 20s shouldn't be subsidizing expat retirees by paying the same amount as the foreign retiree.  Instead, give them an option to pay into the government system at much higher prices.  I'll leave that to the bureaucrats who oversee the public health care system to work that figure out for us.

We are much closer in thought on this issue- 

 

The actual  premise  behind insurance is that the insurance pool should include everyone of any age and indeed younger people who pay in are part of that pool.  An   a ctuary will  determine that there are more people below the age of 50 than above due to levels of mortality and therefore the pool will pay out more  as people age due to more illness.  But that is the whole point of everyone having insurance.  Coverage is needed at every age level and those who are retired and on a pension have no further earning capacity and live off a mostly fixed pension.

 

If the Thai social security system- the health coverage only was applied to thiose foreigners on one 1 yesar extensions/Visas - the money generated would more than make up for any payout.   The current charge for medical care if one is in the system is 457 Baht per month or approximately 5500 baht per month per person.  If there are 500,000 expats that become eligible (all Nationalities)- the money generated at the end of year 1  would be approximately $92 Million  (US Dollars at about 30 Vaht  to 1).

If 100,000 foreigners or 20% of the total used the Thai Government system each year and spent an average of 100,000 Baht (US3,333.99) that would be around $33 Million out of the original $92 Million.

The result of this - all long stay foreigners have medical coverage; The excess funds in the system can go to improved facilities or services in the Thai medical system which would be a boon for all Thai citizens. They could even tack on a 10% surcharge to the final hospital and this system would be much fairer than the worthless insurance coverge they are proposing.

 

I still believe  Healthcare is a human right- because the right to life is enshrined in all countries constitutions - and  Universal Healthcare as proposed by some members of the Thai medical establishment should not be used to generate profit or make doctors wealthy.

 

 

[Kelsall]

From the OP:  "On Friday, a senior executive from one of the insurance companies involved in the scheme told Thaivisa that the Office of Insurance Commission, the Ministry of Public Health, the Foreign Ministry and Immigration Bureau will announce the insurance requirements for  Non-Immigrant O-A visas on 22 August."

 

So did this happen?

[patinchis]

I wait with baited breath here in london ,my application went thro for an 0-A.....and my appt in person is 29th....I paid £150 for the visa online......hopefully they will not start mandatory health insurance before I get it....cos my money would be wasted......I self pay always in Thailand ..


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[expat1010]

easy solution for the old farts, marry the Thai GF, get an O visa and after 3 years apply for permanent residency. insurance problem solved

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, expat1010 said:

easy solution for the old farts, marry the Thai GF, get an O visa and after 3 years apply for permanent residency. insurance problem solved

There is no pathway to permanent resident without working and paying tax.