Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[Bredbury Blue]

Premier League stats on VAR

 

After 12 match rounds, there have been around 800 checks and 29 overturned decisions.

 

Average of around six checks per game, and an overturned decision once every four games.

 

The delay for an overturned decision is around one minute 15 seconds on average.

 

Average delay for a check is around 30 seconds.

 

But no consideration is made to the fans in the stadium who are repeatedly left confused and uninformed about what is being checked etc. 

 

 

[NE1]

12 rounds of games gives a total of games played to date = 228.

6 checks a game = 1,368 . Not 800.

"Overturned decision once every 4 games " = once every 57 games.

 

I don't think VAR is going as well as everybody hoped it would.

Edited November 13, 2019 by NE1

[NE1]

Sorry.......Got them figures wrong .

Should have been 120 games played.

"Overturned decision once every 4 games " = once every 30 games. 

If that is the case then the refs are doing a brilliant job and getting just about everything right.

 

[Bredbury Blue]

[3 minus 2]

On 11/13/2019 at 7:33 AM, Bredbury Blue said:

Premier League stats on VAR

 

 

 

But no consideration is made to the fans in the stadium who are repeatedly left confused and uninformed about what is being checked etc. 

 

 

yeah thats bang on nutx ..they shoud be showing due process on the large live screeen..if.only for the added drama..but overall var  it's just another nail in widening gap between 'real' football and the prem..ALL about marketing..and money.

[473geo]

For me they could turn the whole offside VAR situation around and make football more exciting if the rule was part of the striker must be behind the last man replacing no part goalside

 

VAR showing a clear gap would not exasperate the fans, the striker would have an advantage thus more goals, far more acceptable VAR to give a goal because the foot was in line with the last defender than have to write a goal off with only the foot goal side of the last defender

 

Giving the striker an advantage also eases the decisions that look harsh, because in the main the rules assist his cause

 

 

[3 minus 2]

^^ Var was brought in to eliminate human error ..i'm struggling to understand why anyone would buy/use  a programe that  cant so simple measurements .. ????  un

. frigging  believable... but hey its football.

[stephenterry]

11 hours ago, 473geo said:

For me they could turn the whole offside VAR situation around and make football more exciting if the rule was part of the striker must be behind the last man replacing no part goalside

 

VAR showing a clear gap would not exasperate the fans, the striker would have an advantage thus more goals, far more acceptable VAR to give a goal because the foot was in line with the last defender than have to write a goal off with only the foot goal side of the last defender

 

Giving the striker an advantage also eases the decisions that look harsh, because in the main the rules assist his cause

 

 

It would be simpler and more entertaining if they they revoked the offside rule completely.

[Bredbury Blue]

3 hours ago, stephenterry said:

It would be simpler and more entertaining if they they revoked the offside rule completely.

You're not the first to suggest doing away with the offside rule but wouldn't that completely change football and not for the best. It would become kick it long for speedsters to chase or for The Big Man to flick on. The game would start to resemble Aussie  Rules but without hands (or school playground football). Kick it long, kick it long...no thanks.

[3 minus 2]

yeah .. it'de go back to the school yard days of 'goal paochers' which were  fun in the playground  but else where?   nah cant see it

[473geo]

9 hours ago, Bredbury Blue said:

You're not the first to suggest doing away with the offside rule but wouldn't that completely change football and not for the best. It would become kick it long for speedsters to chase or for The Big Man to flick on. The game would start to resemble Aussie  Rules but without hands (or school playground football). Kick it long, kick it long...no thanks.

Well it would be a bit more exciting than some of the play passball back and forth across the back four!! that we see so much of today, as a person who likes a small bet on football to see this type of play when a team is behind with minutes to go is soul destroying!! and wallet depleting ????

[Bredbury Blue]

4 hours ago, 473geo said:

Well it would be a bit more exciting than some of the play passball back and forth across the back four!! that we see so much of today, as a person who likes a small bet on football to see this type of play when a team is behind with minutes to go is soul destroying!! and wallet depleting ????

No offside rule would totally change football. Midfield would be completely bypassed and eventually disappear. Skilful players like Messi would no longer be a thing. The game would become a cross between basketball (ball goes to one end then the other ...) and aussie rules. Not for me thanks. The level of Football in England has never been higher than in recent seasons with artistic beautiful passing football and i like it as it is...not hoof and chase thanks.

[473geo]

4 hours ago, Bredbury Blue said:

No offside rule would totally change football. Midfield would be completely bypassed and eventually disappear. Skilful players like Messi would no longer be a thing. The game would become a cross between basketball (ball goes to one end then the other ...) and aussie rules. Not for me thanks. The level of Football in England has never been higher than in recent seasons with artistic beautiful passing football and i like it as it is...not hoof and chase thanks.

I was not the one advocating a total ban just an adjustment to give the forward a benefit which would not change the game the way you state, as the through ball from midfield into space would be more effective if defence tried to compact the game. To my mind any part of the attacker in line with the last defender would be good, clear gap between attacker would be seen as trying to take advantage and decisions via VAR would be more readily accepted

[Bredbury Blue]

11 minutes ago, 473geo said:

I was not the one advocating a total ban just an adjustment to give the forward a benefit

 

 

23 hours ago, stephenterry said:

would be simpler and more entertaining if they they revoked the offside rule completely.

 

Apologies to you sir; it was t'other fella advocating revoking the offside rule.

 

And i agree with you that the attacking team should be given the advantage - if level not offside (but in the way they are measuring it these days, whose penis has strayed offside, level is unlikely to happen anymore, it's offside by a todger or not offside).

 

I also reckon the new handball rule when leading to a goal being disallowed is a load of <deleted> as well. Should go back to before of intentional hands is handball / accidental hands is not handball OR make it super simple of ball touching hand/arm anywhere anyhow is handball applied to both attacking n defending teams.

[stephenterry]

On 11/19/2019 at 4:40 PM, Bredbury Blue said:

You're not the first to suggest doing away with the offside rule but wouldn't that completely change football and not for the best. It would become kick it long for speedsters to chase or for The Big Man to flick on. The game would start to resemble Aussie  Rules but without hands (or school playground football). Kick it long, kick it long...no thanks.

And you don't think that happens already? Watched Leicester, recently? That's what Vardy is all about. However, I think it should only be scrapped for players in the penalty area, not outside it.

[Bredbury Blue]

14 hours ago, stephenterry said:

And you don't think that happens already? Watched Leicester, recently? That's what Vardy is all about. However, I think it should only be scrapped for players in the penalty area, not outside it.

No it doesn't happen already. Vardy cleverly plays within the offside rule with his runs. Not that easy.

 

So now you're suggesting for the offside "it should only be scrapped for players in the penalty area, not outside it". So you could be offside still inside your opponents half, except for inside the opponents penalty box! So teams could just position a forward fulltime in the penalty box. Are you thinking this through at all?

[stephenterry]

5 hours ago, Bredbury Blue said:

No it doesn't happen already. Vardy cleverly plays within the offside rule with his runs. Not that easy.

 

So now you're suggesting for the offside "it should only be scrapped for players in the penalty area, not outside it". So you could be offside still inside your opponents half, except for inside the opponents penalty box! So teams could just position a forward fulltime in the penalty box. Are you thinking this through at all?

 

Probably not, but there has to be a solution relating to the penalty box, as it's currently absurd to check for offsides all the time. 

[Bredbury Blue]

We've all grown up with offside, it's been in the laws of the game for a long time, so we're all used to it.

But what is causing upset this season isn't the offside law itself but the doubt people have when they see VARs bloody blue and red lines and the doubt in people's minds that they are both accurate enough and taken exactly at the time the pass was made (contact on the ball). 

[mrbojangles]

This is becoming blatant now. A perfectly good goal disallowed. For a start there was nothing clear and obvious and he was not getting anywhere near the ball. The VAR man made that call and again the ref should have looked at the monitor for that. These are important situations they are messing with. They had better start being consistent with blowing the whistle for pushing in the box but they won't.

 

Palace should be livid at that. I know I am

[jellydog]

1 hour ago, mrbojangles said:

This is becoming blatant now. A perfectly good goal disallowed. For a start there was nothing clear and obvious and he was not getting anywhere near the ball. The VAR man made that call and again the ref should have looked at the monitor for that. These are important situations they are messing with. They had better start being consistent with blowing the whistle for pushing in the box but they won't.

 

Palace should be livid at that. I know I am

It's more and more of a joke every week yet no changes. Beggars belief.

[wilai]

Some VAR Stats (source ESPN)

 

Most in favour: Leicester, Tottenham (4)

Most net in favour: Tottenham (3)

Most against: Chelsea (4)

Most net against: Chelsea, West Ham (4)

Most involvement: West Ham (7)

Least involvement: Newcastle (0)

[3 minus 2]

13 hours ago, wilai said:

Some VAR Stats (source ESPN)

 

Most in favour: Leicester, Tottenham (4)

Most net in favour: Tottenham (3)

Most against: Chelsea (4)

Most net against: Chelsea, West Ham (4)

Most involvement: West Ham (7)

Least involvement: Newcastle (0)

intsrestin stats  wont be long b4 managers have stats telling them the most likely period during a game for reviews.. players most likely to get reviews ..  and it doesnt take much imagination for that to be transferred  over to players market value

NO DOUBTS .. var is changing the prem game...and for the better?  atm one has to say not.. the fears of those fans that didnt want it .. ie its gonna slow the game .. break it up, and it pandering to the games  excessive growing media control,     Overall it aint helpin the game.. actually in terms of drama.. its effective... however will it change?  well ANYONE who buys/designs  a comp programme to judge distance ie offside's that doesnt have enuf  common sence to include   a simple 'tape measure' and has to draw lines to measure distance ... for about sums it up..

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by 3 minus 2

[keithsimmonds]

Excellent Var decision in the Watford v Burnley, "thats what Var was brought in for Quote S.Dyche" yep if Holebas had not Kicked/collided with Barnes a goal would have been scored.......not in a million thucking years...stacks up well with a 90% chance of scoring from the spot......ludicrous.

[Bredbury Blue]

Souness suggested on Sky Sports at the weekend a tweak to the offside law, whereby a player is onside if any part of his body is onside. Think i prefer his suggestion over the current law as they'll be few arguements and would favour the attacking team and result in more goals given.

 

[mrbojangles]

48 minutes ago, Bredbury Blue said:

Souness suggested on Sky Sports at the weekend a tweak to the offside law, whereby a player is onside if any part of his body is onside. Think i prefer his suggestion over the current law as they'll be few arguements and would favour the attacking team and result in more goals given.

 

I read that and in principle like it but wouldn't we have to get UEFA on side (pardon the pun) and all the other leagues? EPL doing something different just makes it harder when playing in CL etc

[NanLaew]

18 minutes ago, mrbojangles said:

1 hour ago, Bredbury Blue said:

Souness suggested on Sky Sports at the weekend a tweak to the offside law, whereby a player is onside if any part of his body is onside. Think i prefer his suggestion over the current law as they'll be few arguements and would favour the attacking team and result in more goals given.

 

I read that and in principle like it but wouldn't we have to get UEFA on side (pardon the pun) and all the other leagues? EPL doing something different just makes it harder when playing in CL etc

I agree with Souness. The most recent instance of ruling that part of a Wolves players foot was 'a few pixels' over a line that is itself a few pixels wide is laughable.

 

It can also be extended to 'encroachment' VAR's on penalty kicks IMHO. If the GK advances forward off the goal line towards the spot kicker then yes, foul. Retake. But if another player's head, knee or shoulder is adjudged to be just over the penalty area line and not a whole foot, leg or two, then no, that's far too imprecise. From my random viewing of some retaken spot kicks this season, it appears more than a few have been after the first spot kick was saved. The chances of a GK going the right way and making a stop is slim enough but it would appear that if he does and he saves, VAR will find some ear or armpit that caused this and order it to be retaken.

 

My understanding is that the on-field referee can chose to argue the VAR decision which would require that he do an on-field review on the telly by the touchline. That sounds all very reasonable until one considers that the EPL's Stockley Park team strongly discourages that practice as they claim it can stop the free-flow of the game. The EPL also stressed how undesirable this is to the referee's attending pre-season VAR training and orientation.

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 hour ago, mrbojangles said:

I read that and in principle like it but wouldn't we have to get UEFA on side (pardon the pun) and all the other leagues? EPL doing something different just makes it harder when playing in CL etc

Not UEFA, it's not up to them. Only the IFAB has the authority to make any changes to the Laws of the Game - and it looks as if they're considering it already:

 

Quote

Lukas Brud, general secretary of the International Football Association Board, said: "With VAR we see some things that are going in a direction that we may need to re-adjust."
He said the body would reissue guidance on VAR's use after its annual general meeting in February.
"If you spend multiple minutes trying to identify whether it is offside or not, then it's not clear and obvious and the original decision should stand," he said.
He added: "What we really need to stress is that 'clear and obvious' applies to every single situation that is being reviewed by the VAR or the referee.
"In theory, 1mm offside is offside, but if a decision is taken that a player is not offside and the VAR is trying to identify through looking at five, six, seven, 10, 12 cameras whether or not it was offside, then the original decision should stand.

Should be interesting to see what they come up with.

Edited December 31, 2019 by GroveHillWanderer
Clarification

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

5 hours ago, mrbojangles said:

I read that and in principle like it but wouldn't we have to get UEFA on side (pardon the pun) and all the other leagues? EPL doing something different just makes it harder when playing in CL etc

Not UEFA, it's not up to them. Only the IFAB has the authority to make any changes to the Laws of the Game - and it looks as if they're considering it already:

 

Quote

Lukas Brud, general secretary of the International Football Association Board, said: "With VAR we see some things that are going in a direction that we may need to re-adjust."
He said the body would reissue guidance on VAR's use after its annual general meeting in February.
"If you spend multiple minutes trying to identify whether it is offside or not, then it's not clear and obvious and the original decision should stand," he said.
He added: "What we really need to stress is that 'clear and obvious' applies to every single situation that is being reviewed by the VAR or the referee.
"In theory, 1mm offside is offside, but if a decision is taken that a player is not offside and the VAR is trying to identify through looking at five, six, seven, 10, 12 cameras whether or not it was offside, then the original decision should stand.

Should be interesting to see what they come up with.

Certainly would be progress. Put it this way, none of the on-field officials, the 22 players, their substitutes, team managers, assistants, physios, bag carriers, all the other team support, the ball boys or the 53,326 pairs of eyes in the stands at Anfield saw João Moutinho’s boot as 3 pixels offside. Stuff of bloody nonsense.

[Bredbury Blue]

Football's law-makers say the video assistant referee system should not be "too forensic" when it comes to offsides - and should only be used to reverse "clear and obvious" errors.

 

Seems that the PL referees have been applying the use of VAR wrongly. Brud's comments make a lot of sense. 

[Bredbury Blue]

The secret is out!