Whats really going on with Thailand immigration?

[Rob4]

Lately it seems that things are moving but not sure to what direction.

 

On one hand i hear people saying you get rejected almost immediately if you are the kind of guy who stayed

too long in the country lately.

They start to reject a lot of ED visas, and some embassies have new rules of 1 a year, or "NOT AT ALL a year ".

 

Business owners have problems, and of course no more than 1 tourist visa a year.

 

People say house prices goes down, westerns sell their business and leave.

Houses for sale groups are exploding with offers from the islands, rent prices goes down a lot.

 

 

On the other hand, the king just signed 2 emergency protocols to make the life of business owners easier. 

People say the officers are nervous and start to realize they where too hard, and change things.

 

 

Not sure, very curious  - how the real government see things now ?

Where is it going in details ?

 

Thanks.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Rob4

[madmen]

10 minutes ago, Rob4 said:

People say house prices goes down, westerns sell their business and leave.

Houses for sale groups are exploding with offers from the islands, rent prices goes down a lot.

What people? you mean on TV? 

everything is ALWAYS going down according to bar stool analyst.. Never up

[Puchaiyank]

What makes many expats a little nervous is the uncertainty at immigration offices.   The changes this year...loosing embassy income letters, TM-30 requirement if you take the family 50 kilometers to see grandmother...stay overnight...then required to report with document to immigration, some require blue ink, some get irate if you do not wear your Sunday best clothing and wye the IO officer to get service...some offices seem to go to great length to make expats sweat before getting a stamp...

 

All pure BS...IMHO...unnecessary and not appreciated...

 

Let me say before the Thai apologists show me the exit door...the curve balls thrown at expats by immigration are causing many expats to seriously reconsider their strategy for the long haul...

 

 

[NightSky]

Quote

Whats really going on with Thailand immigration?

 

Nationalistic attitudes are filtering through the ranks.

Edited August 22, 2019 by NightSky

[SteveK]

I suspect that by the time the Thai authorities figure out that what they are doing is harming their country, many business owners and ex-pats will have already relocated to somewhere that welcomes people who bring employment and their own finances into the country. To change the rules now means that they have to admit that they were wrong - highly unlikely to happen any time soon.

 

Once the tourists finally stop coming, the ex-pats all go to Vietnam or the Philippines, and foreigners stop wanting to do business in Thailand because of the outrageous paperwork and visa hassles, then just maybe someone might notice something. Wouldn't bank on it though, TIT.

 

Can't help but feel sorry for the Thai owners of the little budget guesthouses around the country. I would bet that they relied on the gap-year students, the backpackers and thrifty travelers, and if they are not coming because of visa hassles, problems with immigration or the exchange rate fiasco, it's Thai people who are going to lose jobs, and Thai business owners who could end up getting hurt as well. But there seems to be an undertone of xenophobia to all this, the enjoyment some people in low-level positions get from making as much grief as possible for the farang. Maybe they just do want to abolish tourism and get all the foreigners out, who really knows?

Edited August 22, 2019 by SteveK

[Rob4]

Actually as someone who live here almost 2 years i certainly feel that prices goes down by a lot.

I mean house prices. Rent prices. Hotels are empty. Less tourist at my area which is a very touristic island.

A LOT of western business shut down this year, i personally know more than 10 only here that closed due to

lack of income and other problems.

(hire 8 Thai people for a business visa... come on! this is not Canada!)

 

What are they doing there ?

[MRToMRT]

I am one of those who decided to leave, but just before all of this TM thing started. I do think that as Farang I sense a lesser welcome in Thailand but its still more of a welcome than the vast majority of other countries.

But as I am now heavily into the administration of setting up in new country with immigration and sorting tax issues I can tell you Thailand is still a much much easier country to enter, stay and function in than most. Even with this found level of odd beurocratic needs, I am finding my new move (Europe) dogged with immigration bureaucracy, local gov bureaucracy and tax bureaucracy.  All of which take months to sort.

Edited August 22, 2019 by MRToMRT

[looplaw]

2 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

I am one of those who decided to leave, but just before all of this TM thing started. I do think that as Farang I sense a lesser welcome in Thailand but its still more of a welcome than the vast majority of other countries.

But as I am now heavily into the administration of setting up in new country with immigration and sorting tax issues I can tell you Thailand is still a much much easier country to enter, stay and function in than most. Even with this found level of odd beurocratic needs, I am finding my new move (Europe) dogged with bureaucracy and taxes.  

Europe?  That SUCKS!

[Pilotman]

9 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

I am one of those who decided to leave, but just before all of this TM thing started. I do think that as Farang I sense a lesser welcome in Thailand but its still more of a welcome than the vast majority of other countries.

But as I am now heavily into the administration of setting up in new country with immigration and sorting tax issues I can tell you Thailand is still a much much easier country to enter, stay and function in than most. Even with this found level of odd beurocratic needs, I am finding my new move (Europe) dogged with immigration bureaucracy, local gov bureaucracy and tax bureaucracy.  All of which take months to sort.

well said.  Some if not a great many on TVF think that Thailand is the only country in the world with strict immigration laws and requirements,.  That is far from the truth, as a great many countries are much more onerous to would be expats and the ones that are not are way behind in technology, infrastructure, health cover and freedoms, Vietnam, Cambodia and the Philippines are three such. Just try becoming an expat in my own country, the UK and you will see what I mean.  Even the Russian oligarch,  criminal class are finding it hard going. 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Pilotman

[jimmiejackson]

On the other hand, the king just signed 2 emergency protocols to make the life of business owners easier. 

People say the officers are nervous and start to realize they where too hard, and change things.

 

Really? I must have missed this. Does anyone have any links or info?

[Destiny1990]

In last years they are making it much more complicated for foreigners to stay long term.

Nowadays Pattaya looks like a ghost town.

Nobody making money there.

[VBF]

38 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

In last years they are making it much more complicated for foreigners to stay long term.

Nowadays Pattaya looks like a ghost town.

Nobody making money there.

Then again,

A: It's low season; B: a strong Baht vs Western currencies both seem like more likely reasons for the current absence of foreigners, don't you think?

Edited August 22, 2019 by VBF

[Issannative]

A military government.
An over strong currency.
Rampent corruption.
A persived unfriendly immigration policy.
An apathetic populss.
That's about it but am sure there are more problems.

[Max69xl]

3 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

What makes many expats a little nervous is the uncertainty at immigration offices.   The changes this year...loosing embassy income letters, TM-30 requirement if you take the family 50 kilometers to see grandmother...stay overnight...then required to report with document to immigration, some require blue ink, some get irate if you do not wear your Sunday best clothing and wye the IO officer to get service...some offices seem to go to great length to make expats sweat before getting a stamp...

 

All pure BS...IMHO...unnecessary and not appreciated...

 

Let me say before the Thai apologists show me the exit door...the curve balls thrown at expats by immigration are causing many expats to seriously reconsider their strategy for the long haul...

 

 

You can't blame Immigration for the loss of income letters from 4 embassies. The problem is that Immigration doesn't know how to handle the situation when it comes to the >65k monthly method. Hopefully they will learn. 

[swissie]

Problem No 1: Too many different types of "Visas" (even confusing Immi-Officers).

 

Problem No 2: As long as individual Immi-Officers are allowed to interpret the Immi-Legislation at their discretion (different application of the law, depending on Immi-Office and individual Immi-Officer), the Chaos will persist.

[sunnyboy2018]

3 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

In last years they are making it much more complicated for foreigners to stay long term.

Nowadays Pattaya looks like a ghost town.

Nobody making money there.

Pattaya is busy in parts. The big bar beer complexs have had their day. On WS the dance clubs are busy as are the new Indian clubs. 4 new go gos have been opened. Buakao and LK Metro are busy. Soi cozy beach is busy compared to the last four years. Badly managed places are doing badly.

[Destiny1990]

3 hours ago, VBF said:

Then again,

A: It's low season; B: a strong Baht vs Western currencies both seem like more likely reasons for the current absence of foreigners, don't you think?

Nice try but no. The Visa procedures  overrule the Baht value  because What does it matter if the Baht is low or high if you’re not allowed to stay here long term? You simply select another country where you’re more welcome!

Edited August 22, 2019 by Destiny1990

[Destiny1990]

8 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Pattaya is busy in parts. The big bar beer complexs have had their day. On WS the dance clubs are busy as are the new Indian clubs. 4 new go gos have been opened. Buakao and LK Metro are busy. Soi cozy beach is busy compared to the last four years. Badly managed places are doing badly.

Yes true some places still busy but that’s just their own local staff.????

Remove all the workers from all the bars in soi Bukaw and maybe there are 100 farang customers dividend over 200 bars..if you don’t believe me then go ask any bar owner in Bukaw how is his business ?

Edited August 22, 2019 by Destiny1990

[mike787]

Action speaks louder than words.  Thailand maybe smiles, BUT, BUT!  That is where everything ends.  Thailand is an Inclusive society.  They like it like that as demonstrated/enforced by some of the strongest, xenophobic, consistently inconsistent immigration regulation in the world.  You are accurate, NOT crazy.  We ALL see and feel the same hard line immigration.  NO physical wall is needed as there already is one.  Back to your Q?....the direction is NOT good for expats.  Who is it good for?  Not sure, depends on the objective/agenda, but how this is great for expats, I/we all would are all ears.  Teach us!

[55Jay]

My sense was someone somewhere in the Immigration food chain was emboldened (or was told to get emboldened) by a military junta flexing its muscles hard, including against the Whites and their "international media".  "You're not my father".   Grumpy Prayut wasn't taking s**t off anyone. 

 

The defeatist mentality, letting things slide in the name of tourism, was starting to crack.  Immigration began to think they could hold Whitey accountable without fear of reprecussion.  And no, I'm not one of those liberal "white privilege" whingers but come on, anyone who's been around the world for the past 30 odd years knows the paradigm shift.  N. Korea, China, Philippines, Thailand, and others - standing up to the Old Guard.

 

This, a continuation perhaps.  A subtle awakening in the mid-management ranks?

 

And so they met, and to me, felt like they crafted a "To Do" List of exploits and work arounds that were out in the open and taken for granted, at Thai Immigration's expense - much of which was their own damn fault. 

 

And so they began going down this list, one by one, attacking each area with unflinching, unapologetic zeal.  You could chart the progress on TVF based on trending discussions, and you knew Immigration was cutting deep based on the quantity of new TVF members coming out of the woodwork with urgent voices, seeking advice on possible work-arounds.  Some resigned to their fate and just wanted to get to the aiport without landing in IDC,  how the surrender would unfold, and how long their self-inflicted debarment from Thailand would be.

 

Down the list they went.  Visa Waiver entry abusers, Tourist visa exploiters/serial border runners, "black balling" overstayers, illegal workers, Ed Visa mills and those abusers, fake marriages and those extensions got a look in. 

 

Seems they saved the harder ones for last - Embassies and their income affadavits followed closely by fraudulent financials for extensions and (for about 2 seconds) "Visa service" companies facilitating them.  For those who hadn't been deported or self-exiled, the crowd pleaser inspired by Z' former DDR......  Z' TM-30 <clicks heels and salutes!>. 

 

So, we know where we've been and where we are now.  Perhaps a better question is, what's next?  Are there any other glaring discrepancies within the Immigration Program as it relates to us, that need fixing and thus, might be the next big announcement, effective immediately?

 

Any guesses?

 

Should we make a Poll?  ????

Edited August 22, 2019 by 55Jay

[Sheryl]

"of course no more than 1 tourist visa a year. "  (from OP)

 

I don't know where you got that, but it is wrong. There is no limit to numbers of TVs in a year, though IOs at entry points can and do deny entry if the total pattern looks like someone is living in Thailand on TV or combo of TV and visa exempt entries. Total time spent in country is more relevant than number of visas.

 

What seems to be going on is 2 things:

 

1 - Immigration is trying to put a stop to people living in Thailand without proper visa for long term stay, That includes people stringing together TVs and/or visa exempt entries, and people using ED visas who are not really seriously studying. This has happened before, many times over the last 2-3 decades, though I would agree that the extent of the crackdown seems greater and more prolonged than we have seen before (and also shows no sign of easing up).

 

2. Government  is aware that there are people living here in retirement extensions who do not in fact meet the financial requirements.  People  unable to pay hospital and other bills, people going on crowdfunding websites to raise money to pay their medical expenses, even some homeless/begging expats etc), and other pretty visible signs of down-and-out expats here.  There is a thread running right now in TV about how little one can live on here, and if you look at the various low cost budgets people list, none include insurance premiums or savings set aside to cover emergencies etc. and certainly none sound like they are bringing in much cash which was the whole (and sole) reason for allowing expats to retire here to begin with.   Immigration has decided, probably in response to directives from above,  to take measures to get these people out.  And, being TI, the measures they have come up with do not always make sense or serve the intended purpose, and have intended effects on people who do meet the requirements.

 

There may also be some sort of push to be seen (emphasis on "seen", not actually doing) to crack down on international crime/ foreigners involved in criminal activity.

 

And all of this is fed into a system of management within TI that is very, very inefficient in conveying instructions down the line to its field offices and a culture that does nto allow inferiors to ask questions, leading to each IO having their own interpretations. That part has always been the case.

 

 

[yogi100]

1 hour ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Pattaya is busy in parts. The big bar beer complexs have had their day. On WS the dance clubs are busy as are the new Indian clubs. 4 new go gos have been opened. Buakao and LK Metro are busy. Soi cozy beach is busy compared to the last four years. Badly managed places are doing badly.

A few weeks back I went into the Paradise Agogo in LKM in Pattaya.. There were three falangs in there including myself and the falang manager.

 

As soon as I sat down two girls sat either side of me and immediately requested a drink each. No 'whats your name, where you come from' business.

 

I laughed at their nerve out of surprise rather than mirth, drank up, check binned and left. This is not the typical experience in Pattaya's GGBs. But neither is it exactly totally uncommon.

 

The strong baht and visa regulations will see more of this attitude and eventually fewer punters and more unemployment and poverty among the locals. Bars were closing down all over the place then in early July. It will only get worse.

 

Edit.

 

I visit Pattaya 2 - 3 times year and stay for 2 or 3 months each time with an METV from the London Embassy. The one that lets you stay for 90 days a time over a fifteen month period if you time it right and if you're on a state pension.

 

From next year I won't be able to get that visa any more when my present one runs out in March. I normally spend about 20K GBPs in pattaya each year. That's roughly a million baht a year they won't be getting any more. Up to them.

 

Lots of long termers I know with the same sort of visas spend considerably more than I do!

Edited August 22, 2019 by yogi100

[madmen]

A few weeks back I went into the Paradise Agogo in LKM in Pattaya.. There were three falangs in there including myself and the falang manager.
 
As soon as I sat down two girls sat either side of me and immediately requested a drink each. No 'whats your name, where you come from' business.
 
I laughed at their nerve out of surprise rather than mirth, drank up, check binned and left. This is not the typical experience in Pattaya's GGBs. But neither is it exactly totally uncommon.
 
The strong baht and visa regulations will see more of this attitude and eventually fewer punters and more unemployment and poverty among the locals. Bars were closing down all over the place then in early July. It will only get worse.

Been going to pattaya always low season and lk metro is always dead as are many on walking st . Nothing new there but that's how like it

[yogi100]

15 minutes ago, madmen said:

29 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

A few weeks back I went into the Paradise Agogo in LKM in Pattaya.. There were three falangs in there including myself and the falang manager.
 
As soon as I sat down two girls sat either side of me and immediately requested a drink each. No 'whats your name, where you come from' business.
 
I laughed at their nerve out of surprise rather than mirth, drank up, check binned and left. This is not the typical experience in Pattaya's GGBs. But neither is it exactly totally uncommon.
 
The strong baht and visa regulations will see more of this attitude and eventually fewer punters and more unemployment and poverty among the locals. Bars were closing down all over the place then in early July. It will only get worse.

Been going to pattaya always low season and lk metro is always dead as are many on walking st . Nothing new there but that's how like it

 

How many times have you been in a GGB with only two punters in and you've immediately been pestered for two lady drinks?

 

I spend half my life in Pattaya mainly in LKM and I've never experienced this before.

 

Apparently from what I've heard Oasis Agogo round the corner in Bhukaow has got the shutters up.

Edited August 22, 2019 by yogi100

[daveAustin]

Quote

 

Whats really going on with Thailand immigration?

 

Spring clean. A Singapore-esque yearning... places like Pattaya are in the crosshairs. 

[Mel52]

“What’s really going on with Thailand immigration?” Well, as far as I can see is just business as usual. You renew your extension once a year if you’re like me and do your 90 day report every 3 months and that’s about it. So I guess that’s what’s going on with immigration.

 

 

 

[madmen]

Yes true some places still busy but that’s just their own local staff.[emoji2]
Remove all the workers from all the bars in soi Bukaw and maybe there are 100 farang customers dividend over 200 bars..if you don’t believe me then go ask any bar owner in Bukaw how is his business ?

I know one very large corner bar without any service staff that attracts well over 200 per day alone and in low season soi buhakow.
You're taking nonsense

[Mel52]

You know I live in Korat and here immigration is pretty good and they’re not ever that busy because it’s a smaller city and a smaller office. Now I’ve been to immigration in Bangkok before as well and they’re extremely busy all the time probably every day because obviously it’s Bangkok so I think everyone at least understands that. But when I visited Bangkok immigration a long time ago I had to wait in line for a while but they provided good service still. But here in Korat our immigration office provides absolutely outstanding service. I’m happy with my local immigration office for sure. I haven’t seen every single immigration office all over Thailand so some people might have a point I don’t know but all of my experiences at immigration have been pretty smooth for the most part and friendly service and staff as well. But again that’s just been my experience I’m sure people have had legitimate problems before at immigration but I have never had any problems at immigration in 5 years of living in Thailand so I don’t have anything bad to say about immigration. How can I say anything bad about them when they’ve never done anything wrong to me they’ve always treated me well and respectfully. I’ve never had any issues with any of my extensions or 90 day reports.

 

 

[Destiny1990]

11 minutes ago, madmen said:

I know one very large corner bar without any service staff that attracts well over 200 per day alone and in low season soi buhakow.
You're taking nonsense

Even Hooters on beach rd is dead. The Song teaws are empty

If business is great then why bars, restaurants and shops are closing down?

Everyone i meet is complaining about slow business. Only you dare to distract the reality. 

[Mel52]

I think a lot of the people who complain about immigration probably mostly all live in cities like Bangkok, Chiangmai, Phuket obviously I’ve heard a few negative things about Phuket immigration that were legitimate problems earlier this year IF WHAT I READ ABOUT PHUKET IMMIGRATION WAS ACTUALLY TRUE. But a lot of the posts on here you really have to take with a grain of salt because a lot of it is way over exaggerated especially about immigration and some of the posts are just simply not true. So I really think immigration gets an unfair bad reputation sometimes. When I get my extension every year I always thank them for letting me live in their country because that is not necessarily a God given right. A Visa and an extension is permission from the Thai government to live here or visit here temporarily depending on what type of visa you’re on. I have been permanently living here on annual extensions since 2014 after I retired from the military and I still love it here. Before I retired here I used to visit here a lot 10 years ago so I’ve got about 10 years of experience traveling to and throughout Thailand and 5 years actually living here. So I know enough by now I’d say. But even now once in a while I still learn something new about Thailand even after all the years I’ve been living here and coming here.