Whats really going on with Thailand immigration?

[Mel52]

Even Hooters on beach rd is dead. The Song teaws are empty
If business is great then why bars, restaurants and shops are closing down?
Everyone i meet is complaining about slow business. Only you dare to distract the reality. 

In 5 years here in Korat I’ve only seen one popular restaurant/bar close which was recently and that appears to be only temporary I believe.

[Mel52]

If anything I’ve seen a lot more new businesses springing up including foreign owed restaurants/bars.

 

 

 

 

[yogi100]

8 minutes ago, madmen said:

I know one very large corner bar without any service staff that attracts well over 200 per day alone and in low season soi buhakow.
You're taking nonsense

I can't see how he's 'talking nonsense'?

 

Not all bars are on corners nor do they all sell two drinks for the price of one.

 

There were beer bars in open view all over the place in Pattaya with few if any punters in when I was there six weeks ago. The once heaving Soi 7 was typical.

 

You might have two blokes at the bar with four or five girls behind it. Some were even gazing into their mobile phones obviously bored out of their brains. Probably wondering when they'd be getting their cards.

 

It's gotta be worse now that it's further into low season.

[Mel52]

But it’s true the Thai economy is kind of in a downward spiral at the moment. But it can’t be that bad because their currency is finally starting to decline a little bit for the first time in a while since all the manipulation started.

 

 

[sunnyboy2018]

3 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Yes true some places still busy but that’s just their own local staff.????

Remove all the workers from all the bars in soi Bukaw and maybe there are 100 farang customers dividend over 200 bars..if you don’t believe me then go ask any bar owner in Bukaw how is his business ?

I drink in fairground racer, scooters and Kink..All usually busy.

[sunnyboy2018]

1 hour ago, yogi100 said:

A few weeks back I went into the Paradise Agogo in LKM in Pattaya.. There were three falangs in there including myself and the falang manager.

 

As soon as I sat down two girls sat either side of me and immediately requested a drink each. No 'whats your name, where you come from' business.

 

I laughed at their nerve out of surprise rather than mirth, drank up, check binned and left. This is not the typical experience in Pattaya's GGBs. But neither is it exactly totally uncommon.

 

The strong baht and visa regulations will see more of this attitude and eventually fewer punters and more unemployment and poverty among the locals. Bars were closing down all over the place then in early July. It will only get worse.

 

Edit.

 

I visit Pattaya 2 - 3 times year and stay for 2 or 3 months each time with an METV from the London Embassy. The one that lets you stay for 90 days a time over a fifteen month period if you time it right and if you're on a state pension.

 

From next year I won't be able to get that visa any more when my present one runs out in March. I normally spend about 20K GBPs in pattaya each year. That's roughly a million baht a year they won't be getting any more. Up to them.

 

Lots of long termers I know with the same sort of visas spend considerably more than I do!

Paradise is not a good Go Go. Try Kink. Go for the show on the hour or go upstairs.

[madmen]

Even Hooters on beach rd is dead. The Song teaws are empty

If business is great then why bars, restaurants and shops are closing down?

Everyone i meet is complaining about slow business. Only you dare to distract the reality. 

Hooters was dead in high season overpriced and no Hooters

 

Just calling out your silly math. The corner bar at the intersection buhakow and lengee low season kills your math without staff!

 

Just got back from there.

 

Keep it real

 

[sunnyboy2018]

36 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Even Hooters on beach rd is dead. The Song teaws are empty

If business is great then why bars, restaurants and shops are closing down?

Everyone i meet is complaining about slow business. Only you dare to distract the reality. 

Hooters is awful. Its very big, <deleted> American junk food food, expensive drinks  no atmosphere, no available girls. As for the empty baht buses: I wish.

[sunnyboy2018]

24 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

In 5 years here in Korat I’ve only seen one popular restaurant/bar close which was recently and that appears to be only temporary I believe.

How many bars have you seen open in Korat?

[yogi100]

17 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

I drink in fairground racer, scooters and Kink..All usually busy.

Do you mean Cafe Racer opposite Billabong. If so it's closed down.

[Mel52]

How many bars have you seen open in Korat?

Too many to count. I’ve been here 5 years actually living here for the last 5 years and I still haven’t been to all the restaurants/bars that I’d like to because there are just so many. I have a few preferences though and there’s such a great variety sometimes when we go out it’s hard to decide where we want to go. Sometimes we’ll go to one of the Japanese restaurants one in particular that’s REALLY GOOD, sometimes we’ll go to a foreign owed restaurant/bar with great western style food, sometimes we’ll go to a New York style restaurant/bar just around the corner from our house within a few minutes walk, sometimes we’ll go to the REALLY GREAT Korean restaurant/bar, and sometimes we go to some of the classier Thai restaurants there are so many we literally have trouble making a decision sometimes where we want to go especially because Korat is a smaller city and all these awesome restaurants/bars are all close enough to get there by took took within 5 to 15 minutes. That’s another reason why I like living in Korat so much because it’s smaller but not too small and there are really nice outdoors things to do just a little bit outside the city out in the country like we did today at one of the lakes around here, and there’s a cool restaurant by the lakes as well where you can go swimming for hours and then come back take a shower and change and then order some food outdoors and a few beers. But this maybe getting off topic I believe this topic was about immigration originally.

[yogi100]

22 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Paradise is not a good Go Go. Try Kink. Go for the show on the hour or go upstairs.

I've been in Kink several times up stairs and down.

AKA as the Head Office of Drink'and'Tip'Ponces'R'Us. 

Edited August 22, 2019 by yogi100

[lamyai3]

8 hours ago, Max69xl said:

You can't blame Immigration for the loss of income letters from 4 embassies.

I don't see why not. Those embassies were hoodwinked by immigration into believing they had no choice in discontinuing the letters and that all others would follow. Why did it just stop at 4 - or 3 given that Denmark has started doing them again under some circumstances?

 

The letters weren't even issued on the same basis as each other, with some embassies asking for a sworn affidavit, and others asking for documentation. The bank statements I provided to the UK embassy for my income letter last year were no different (other than the dates on them) from the documentation I provided the Thai embassy in London this year - both were accepted without question. If those documents are still acceptable to get a new Non O-A, why are they no longer acceptable for an income letter? Shoddy tactics by immigration, matched by a limp-wristed response from the embassies, who at the very least should have insisted on parity of treatment with other countries.

[Sheryl]

I don't see why not. Those embassies were hoodwinked by immigration into believing they had no choice in discontinuing the letters and that all others would follow. Why did it just stop at 4 - or 3 given that Denmark has started doing them again under some circumstances?
 
The letters weren't even issued on the same basis as each other, with some embassies asking for a sworn affidavit, and others asking for documentation. The bank statements I provided to the UK embassy for my income letter last year were no different (other than the dates on them) from the documentation I provided the Thai embassy in London this year - both were accepted without question. If those documents are still acceptable to get a new Non O-A, why are they no longer acceptable for an income letter? Shoddy tactics by immigration, matched by a limp-wristed response from the embassies, who at the very least should have insisted on parity of treatment with other countries.

That is not at all my understanding of what happened.

Immigration wanted the Embassies -- all Embassies -- to issue income letters based on some sort of vetting process that ensured, to the extent reasonably possible, that the stated incomes were accurate. The last thing they wanted or expected was for some to choose to stop issuing letters altogether instead, and they were quite disconcerted when some did. It created considerable problems for them (and still does since the alternative they came up with in place of Embassy letter is far from smooth sailing in implementation).

The Embassies which stopped issuing letters were in no way hoodwinked and was certainly no expectation that all other Embassies would follow suit. Why should they? Many Embassies always have required proof of invome to issue letters; from reports on here, some have direct access to govt pension databases etc.

US and Australia were checking nothing at all, just in effect notarizing unverified statrments made to them. TI once aware of that made clear that this was unacceptable and asked them to start doing what other Embassies already fid and carefully review supporting documentation to ensure reoorted income was true. They refused and opted instead to no longer issue letters.



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[Salerno]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

US and Australia were checking nothing at all, just in effect notarizing unverified statrments made to them. TI once aware of that made clear that this was unacceptable ...

Sorry, but how many decades did it take TI to figure that out? 

 

[BestB]

15 hours ago, Rob4 said:

Actually as someone who live here almost 2 years i certainly feel that prices goes down by a lot.

I mean house prices. Rent prices. Hotels are empty. Less tourist at my area which is a very touristic island.

A LOT of western business shut down this year, i personally know more than 10 only here that closed due to

lack of income and other problems.

(hire 8 Thai people for a business visa... come on! this is not Canada!)

 

What are they doing there ?

Wow, almost 2 years ?????

[BestB]

Can anyone tell me what 2 emergency protocols were signed? 

[Genmai]

8 hours ago, 55Jay said:

The defeatist mentality, letting things slide in the name of tourism, was starting to crack.  Immigration began to think they could hold Whitey accountable without fear of reprecussion.  And no, I'm not one of those liberal "white privilege" whingers but come on, anyone who's been around the world for the past 30 odd years knows the paradigm shift.  N. Korea, China, Philippines, Thailand, and others - standing up to the Old Guard.

 

This, a continuation perhaps.  A subtle awakening in the mid-management ranks?

 

And so they met, and to me, felt like they crafted a "To Do" List of exploits and work arounds that were out in the open and taken for granted, at Thai Immigration's expense - much of which was their own damn fault. 

 

"Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the one that requires the least speculation is usually correct. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation. Occam's razor applies especially in the philosophy of science, but also more generally."

 

What's more likely - that there is some kind of hidden agenda of making life harder for white people to which all immigration is conspiring, or that all of this is yet another example of Thai people stuffing up even the most simple matters out of neglect/stupidity? Don't forget that we live in a country where the capital city floods because "city officials could not find the key to the sluice gates". 

[EricTh]

I think it's because too many foreigners are coming to Thailand, that's why they can afford to set all these inconvenient rules. 

 

I still see lots of westerners (Americans, Canadians, Australians, British), Koreans, Japanese coming to Thailand to live permanently even with all these tough rules. These are the traditional group.

 

The other day I was shocked to see a Chinese from China applying for retirement when I went to immigration last month. Isn't things in China cheaper?

 

So if 10 leaves, 100 will come to live in Thailand and the rules still stay.

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by EricTh

[Peterw42]

OP, who are the "people" you refer to ? 3-4 times you use the Term "People say". What people ????

People say the earth is flat and we didnt land on the moon.

 

[EricTh]

2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, who are the "people" you refer to ? 3-4 times you use the Term "People say". What people ????

People say the earth is flat and we didnt land on the moon.

 

 

There are many evidences that NASA faked the moon landing at a movie studio. But that's another story... Let's not change the topic.

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by EricTh

[zydeco]

6 hours ago, Mel52 said:

Too many to count. I’ve been here 5 years actually living here for the last 5 years and I still haven’t been to all the restaurants/bars that I’d like to because there are just so many. I have a few preferences though and there’s such a great variety sometimes when we go out it’s hard to decide where we want to go. Sometimes we’ll go to one of the Japanese restaurants one in particular that’s REALLY GOOD, sometimes we’ll go to a foreign owed restaurant/bar with great western style food, sometimes we’ll go to a New York style restaurant/bar just around the corner from our house within a few minutes walk, sometimes we’ll go to the REALLY GREAT Korean restaurant/bar, and sometimes we go to some of the classier Thai restaurants there are so many we literally have trouble making a decision sometimes where we want to go especially because Korat is a smaller city and all these awesome restaurants/bars are all close enough to get there by took took within 5 to 15 minutes. That’s another reason why I like living in Korat so much because it’s smaller but not too small and there are really nice outdoors things to do just a little bit outside the city out in the country like we did today at one of the lakes around here, and there’s a cool restaurant by the lakes as well where you can go swimming for hours and then come back take a shower and change and then order some food outdoors and a few beers. But this maybe getting off topic I believe this topic was about immigration originally.

Wouldn't it be easier for these forums if you just self published your life story in a book?

[55Jay]

55 minutes ago, Genmai said:

"Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the one that requires the least speculation is usually correct. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation. Occam's razor applies especially in the philosophy of science, but also more generally."

 

What's more likely - that there is some kind of hidden agenda of making life harder for white people to which all immigration is conspiring, or that all of this is yet another example of Thai people stuffing up even the most simple matters out of neglect/stupidity? Don't forget that we live in a country where the capital city floods because "city officials could not find the key to the sluice gates". 

On board with Occam's razor but indeed, this is Thailand, after all, where truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.  I did not say nor do I think there's some broad conspiracy to "make life harder for white folks".    You jumped on that train so you could take a shot at me.  And that's fine, it's TVF, no problem.

 

If you've done enough traveling and observed shifts over decades, not constrained to Thailand, the notion of 3rd worlders rediscovering their self-confidence and exercising perogatives forcefully, in ways they hadn't before, isn't an imaginary phenomena.  Not limited to countries either.  Can also be ethnicities/races givin' it back to their previous minders, so to speak.

Edited August 23, 2019 by 55Jay

[Pilotman]

7 hours ago, Mel52 said:

You know I live in Korat and here immigration is pretty good and they’re not ever that busy because it’s a smaller city and a smaller office. Now I’ve been to immigration in Bangkok before as well and they’re extremely busy all the time probably every day because obviously it’s Bangkok so I think everyone at least understands that. But when I visited Bangkok immigration a long time ago I had to wait in line for a while but they provided good service still. But here in Korat our immigration office provides absolutely outstanding service. I’m happy with my local immigration office for sure. I haven’t seen every single immigration office all over Thailand so some people might have a point I don’t know but all of my experiences at immigration have been pretty smooth for the most part and friendly service and staff as well. But again that’s just been my experience I’m sure people have had legitimate problems before at immigration but I have never had any problems at immigration in 5 years of living in Thailand so I don’t have anything bad to say about immigration. How can I say anything bad about them when they’ve never done anything wrong to me they’ve always treated me well and respectfully. I’ve never had any issues with any of my extensions or 90 day reports.

 

 

That is precisely my experience of Jomtien Immigration, never had any real problem with them and although it is busy, understandably, the service is efficient and relatively quick. Seems to very much depend on the local office, for example, from what I read here and in other places, Chang Mai sounds like a nightmare. 

[Max69xl]

5 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

I don't see why not. Those embassies were hoodwinked by immigration into believing they had no choice in discontinuing the letters and that all others would follow. Why did it just stop at 4 - or 3 given that Denmark has started doing them again under some circumstances?

 

The letters weren't even issued on the same basis as each other, with some embassies asking for a sworn affidavit, and others asking for documentation. The bank statements I provided to the UK embassy for my income letter last year were no different (other than the dates on them) from the documentation I provided the Thai embassy in London this year - both were accepted without question. If those documents are still acceptable to get a new Non O-A, why are they no longer acceptable for an income letter? Shoddy tactics by immigration, matched by a limp-wristed response from the embassies, who at the very least should have insisted on parity of treatment with other countries.

"Sworn affidavits", do you think that's reliable? Many countries issues the income letter for pension only if you can provide the correct documents, stamped and signed. If you come to your embassy with a suspicious document no one can verify, should the embassy take your word for it? In many countries in the EU, other than the government pension,you might get money from insurance companies and from pension funds from banks.

I get my pension from government,2 insurance companies and from my bank. I get a letter from each of them,stamped and signed. My embassy or consulate then issues an income letter based on those documents. Everything is done by the book. Immigration knows this and never ever question the income letter. What the Danish embassy is doing, I don't have a clue. They shouldn't have any problems either,but I don't know what types of pension you get there and from who.

[lamyai3]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

The Embassies which stopped issuing letters were in no way hoodwinked and was certainly no expectation that all other Embassies would follow suit. Why should they?

The British embassy in their initial comments actually mentioned that other embassies would be following suit, and that they were pretty much placed in a position where they had no choice by immigration. It seems unusual and unprofessional to comment on the policies of other embassies, but this is exactly what they did. 

[Rob4]

Curious, what alternative not in Asia would you suggest that are easy with visa for business ?

(Obviously Vietnam/Laos/Cambodia/Philli are <deleted> holes)

[lamyai3]

2 hours ago, Max69xl said:

"Sworn affidavits", do you think that's reliable?

The British embassy never provided sworn affidavits, so the point is moot as far as they're concerned. 

 

2 hours ago, Max69xl said:

get my pension from government,2 insurance companies and from my bank. I get a letter from each of them,stamped and signed.

What makes your documents acceptable and those of a Britisher not? As mentioned, my same income documents that were acceptable for an extension last year are still acceptable for a visa application through the Thai embassy now. 

[NoshowJones]

18 hours ago, Pilotman said:

well said.  Some if not a great many on TVF think that Thailand is the only country in the world with strict immigration laws and requirements,.  That is far from the truth, as a great many countries are much more onerous to would be expats and the ones that are not are way behind in technology, infrastructure, health cover and freedoms, Vietnam, Cambodia and the Philippines are three such. Just try becoming an expat in my own country, the UK and you will see what I mean.  Even the Russian oligarch,  criminal class are finding it hard going. 

How many countries force retirees to report every 90 days? How many countries have the TM30 nonsense?

How many countries will not allow you to buy a house in your name?

I rest my case.

[Fex Bluse]

19 hours ago, SteveK said:

Can't help but feel sorry for the Thai owners of the little budget guesthouses around the country. I would bet that they relied on the gap-year students, the backpackers and thrifty travelers, and if they are not coming because of visa hassles, problems with immigration or the exchange rate fiasco, it's Thai people who are going to lose jobs, and Thai business owners who could end up getting hurt as well.

I CAN avoid feeling sorry for them.

Far too many Thais support this xenophobia and nationalism either explicitly or implicitly.

Most never speak against it.

They deserve any ill-fated outcome 100%.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Fex Bluse