Non O-A, TM 30, and assorted confusion

[NokNokJoke]

I arrived in Thailand about ten days ago with a Non O-A from the US.  Headed to Udon Thani.

I booked a hotel for the first two weeks, assume they do the TM30, and started looking for a house.  I had planned to be on the lease, but the GF found a good deal on a small house, she signed the lease, my name does not appear anywhere on it.

FWIW the previous tenants were farang, and I was told landlord will help with immigration, etc.   (But GF does not know about the stuff foreigners have to deal with)

 

We move in Friday.  I assume I need to go to immigration at that point and try to do a TM30?  (Udon Thani immigration)

[Tayaout]

Ask your girlfriend or landlord to register with this app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=th.go.immigration.section38

 

She will need to submit the first page of the bluebook and her ID card. Then it should take a couple weeks to receive the password. The app will make your life easier in the future. In the meantime she could go to immigration with the bluebook and submit a TM-30 or do it by mail. This should be the job of the landlord so ask if he already registered with the app first. 

[NokNokJoke]

Thanks,  she seems like a very nice lady, I'll cross my fingers.   Is there anything I need to do to cover my butt in the meantime?   

 

 

 I was kind of surprised they didn't hand me a checklist or something when I went through immigration at BKK.

90 day report in the future

[flexomike]

9 minutes ago, NokNokJoke said:

Thanks,  she seems like a very nice lady, I'll cross my fingers.   Is there anything I need to do to cover my butt in the meantime?   

 

 

 I was kind of surprised they didn't hand me a checklist or something when I went through immigration at BKK.

90 day report in the future

not sure if you know it or not, buy you can get almost two years out of your O-A visa, if you do a border crossing before your visa expires, you can  get one year added on from the date you reenter Thailand, after the first year if you leave the country you have to get a re-entry permit to retain your permission to stay, if you do not get one you will just be stamped in for thirty days

[Puchaiyank]

There is no checklist...there are general rules governing immigration...each immigration are allowed to interpret and augment the rules to suit themselves.

 

The good news is Udon Thani immigration is known for being a reliable office to get your work done without outlandish changes to the rules...relax...????

[NokNokJoke]

GF just got off phone.    It appears landlady claims relatives are living in the house and it is not a rental property.   'no worry, police not come'.

 

????

 

 

I guess there is some way around this?    My vague understanding is I need some verified residency documents to proceed with a lot of things here?

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, NokNokJoke said:

I had planned to be on the lease, but the GF found a good deal on a small house, she signed the lease, my name does not appear anywhere on it.

I'd make sure my name was added to the lease first off, for a number of reasons.

You should also request signed copies of the landlords Blue Tabien Baan and their ID card.

 

2 hours ago, NokNokJoke said:

We move in Friday.  I assume I need to go to immigration at that point and try to do a TM30?  (Udon Thani immigration)

Theoretically either you, the g/f, or the landlord could file the TM30's. 

If the landlord rented to foreigners previously he should be aware of this requirement and the procedure.

There's been enough media coverage on the issue recently, just establish who will take the responsibility.

 

15 minutes ago, NokNokJoke said:

I was kind of surprised they didn't hand me a checklist or something when I went through immigration at BKK.

Do they issue checklists to foreigners when entering the US.

As the foreigner, it's for you to familiarise yourself with the Immigration requirements, not for them to tell you. Lots of useful information available to download from this forum.

 

[Tanoshi]

13 minutes ago, NokNokJoke said:

GF just got off phone.    It appears landlady claims relatives are living in the house and it is not a rental property.   'no worry, police not come'.

Oh dear! The landlord is worried about income tax implications.

 

15 minutes ago, NokNokJoke said:

I guess there is some way around this?    My vague understanding is I need some verified residency documents to proceed with a lot of things here?

Absolutely.

Either the landlord complies, or find another place to rent.

Unfortunately your g/f may have good intentions, but she has no idea of the difficulties and consequences you could face in the future.

 

When you file your first 90 day report, Udon Thani will no doubt throw a couple of forms at you to sign, personal information, overstay rules and they'll create a file for future use.

They'll want some proof of address and landlord details if rented.

If a TM30 hasn't been filed, you'll probably be fined.

 

Your g/f should read section 37, 38 and 4 of the Immigration Act to familiarise herself with the TM30 requirements, then take it up with the landlord.

Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979) en - immigration.pdf

Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979) Thai text.pdf

 

[jackdd]

Insist on getting a signed copies of the owner's ID card and the related house book, before handing over any money, then your GF won't have a problem to submit a TM30 for you.

You should get these copies anyway to be sure that the person who you pay the money to is the actual owner of the house.

[NokNokJoke]

She signed the lease, paid first, last, and security deposit already. 5000 a month so not the Taj Mahal, but adequate. I just want to avoid problems in the future. Thanks

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[elviajero]

As you have a Non O-A visa you won't be needing extensions of stay for a long time, so the TM.30 is not such much of an issue for you. 

 

You should get your gf to try and submit the TM.30 as possessor (tenant) of the property, which is good enough to satisfy the law at least. If you do nothing the worst that can happen is a max fine of 2,000 baht (typically 800 or 1,600).

[Tanoshi]

59 minutes ago, elviajero said:

As you have a Non O-A visa you won't be needing extensions of stay for a long time, so the TM.30 is not such much of an issue for you. 

He'll probably need a Certificate of Residence at some point to open a bank account or purchase a vehicle.

Without a TM30 being filed or having his personal details on file his chances are nil.

 

Agree g/f should try filing, but a lease without signed copies of the landlords TB and ID card may not be enough. She can but try though.

[sunnyboy2018]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

As you have a Non O-A visa you won't be needing extensions of stay for a long time, so the TM.30 is not such much of an issue for you. 

 

You should get your gf to try and submit the TM.30 as possessor (tenant) of the property, which is good enough to satisfy the law at least. If you do nothing the worst that can happen is a max fine of 2,000 baht (typically 800 or 1,600).

Is the Non O-A visa the same as a retirement extension?. What does the O mean and what does the A mean? When I researched the Non O-A visa it seemed to have the same rules as the retirement extension

 

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, NokNokJoke said:

It appears landlady claims relatives are living in the house and it is not a rental property. 

90-day reports need to reconcile with residence.

[Tayaout]

1 hour ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Is the Non O-A visa the same as a retirement extension?. What does the O mean and what does the A mean? When I researched the Non O-A visa it seemed to have the same rules as the retirement extension

 

Not an expert but O-A is valid for 2 years instead of 1 year for O. O-A only available in home country and require more documents. Extension is not a visa and something you do on top of a O and O-A visa so you don't need to exit the country every 90 days. 

[patinchis]

Hi , am O-A question, obtained this week in london but my passport expires April 2021......my OA can be extended until say August later in 2021......how does one get new passport stamped to that effect when the one with the visa expires?


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[Peterw42]

39 minutes ago, patinchis said:

Hi , am O-A question, obtained this week in london but my passport expires April 2021......my OA can be extended until say August later in 2021......how does one get new passport stamped to that effect when the one with the visa expires?


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If you enter Thailand just before your OA validity expires , I think you will get a stay stamp until the expire date on your passport, not a one year stay stamp that goes beyond passport expiry. Unfortunately you wont be able to squeeze the full 2 years stay from the OA.

Immigration wont issue a visa, a stay or an extension beyond a passports expiry date.

 

If you had a new passport in hand before the visa expires, you could in theory enter on the visa in the expired passport (it maybe will still be honored) and have a year stamp put in the new passport.

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Is the Non O-A visa the same as a retirement extension?.

No. A Non-Immigrant Visa (category O-A), issued outside Thailand to over 50’s, is valid for unlimited entries for 1 year from the date it’s issued. On every entry the holder is granted a 1 year permit to stay.

 

An 1 year extension of stay based on retirement is issued by immigration in Thailand to someone over 50 who’s permission to stay on entry to the country has expired. E.g. You enter with a Non O-A visa, get a 1 year stay, and then apply to extend that stay from immigration.

 

Sometimes people refers to their Extension of stay (Stay Permit) as a Retirement Visa or O-A visa.

 

Quote

What does the O mean and what does the A mean?

“O” usually stands for ‘Other’ — as in other reason. No idea what the A stands for. 

 

Quote

When I researched the Non O-A visa it seemed to have the same rules as the retirement extension

The rules differ, but you must be over 50 and need an income of 65K pm, or 800K in the bank, or a combination of the two to qualify for either. 

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, patinchis said:

Hi , am O-A question, obtained this week in london but my passport expires April 2021......my OA can be extended until say August later in 2021......how does one get new passport stamped to that effect when the one with the visa expires?

You take both passports to immigration and they will transfer the stamps to the new passport. 

 

If you make your final entry using the visa in August 2020 they will only stamp you in until April 2021 (8 months) when your passport expires. If you want to maximise the O-A visa you should get a new passport before making the final entry using the visa.

[patinchis]

Thanks guys probably good to get new passport in plenty of time then....cheers


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[Tanoshi]

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

“O” usually stands for ‘Other’ — as in other reason. No idea what the A stands for. 

A = annual, as in 1 year entries as opposed to the standard 90 day entries from an O.

[elviajero]

33 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

A = annual, as in 1 year entries as opposed to the standard 90 day entries from an O.

That would make sense.

 

And would make the X in O-X Ten.

[sunnyboy2018]

8 hours ago, elviajero said:

No. A Non-Immigrant Visa (category O-A), issued outside Thailand to over 50’s, is valid for unlimited entries for 1 year from the date it’s issued. On every entry the holder is granted a 1 year permit to stay.

 

An 1 year extension of stay based on retirement is issued by immigration in Thailand to someone over 50 who’s permission to stay on entry to the country has expired. E.g. You enter with a Non O-A visa, get a 1 year stay, and then apply to extend that stay from immigration.

 

Sometimes people refers to their Extension of stay (Stay Permit) as a Retirement Visa or O-A visa.

 

“O” usually stands for ‘Other’ — as in other reason. No idea what the A stands for. 

 

The rules differ, but you must be over 50 and need an income of 65K pm, or 800K in the bank, or a combination of the two to qualify for either. 

Thank you. But if I am over 50 why should I choose one over the other? Is one applied for in Thailand and the other in the home country?

[NokNokJoke]

Non O-A can only be applied for in your home country, and gives you up to two years, with one overnight exit from thailand during that period.   For the US, meeting the requirements was a little 'simpler'.   I can keep my money in a US bank when applying, and not have to move any money into a Thai bank for a year and a half or so if I decide to get a normal retirement extension in Thailand when the non 0-a runs out.

 

You could do end to end non o-a's, but that would  mean returning to your home country every two years, spending a few weeks or more there.   Biggest advantage is you don't have to meet the thai bank requirements, and some people are happy to go back to home country that frequently, anyway.  

Disadvantage for the US  is the medical form, and the background check. 

 

 

 

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Thank you. But if I am over 50 why should I choose one over the other? Is one applied for in Thailand and the other in the home country?

You buy visas from embassies/consulates to enter and you get permission to extend your stay from immigration, 

 

You can have both. Start by entering with a Non O-A visa and then extend your stay after one or two years.

 

In order to extend your stay based on retirement you need to first enter with a Non-immigrant O-A or O visa. A O-A visa gives you multiple entries for 1 year with a 1 year stay granted each time you enter. A O visa gives you single or multiple (not readily available these days) entries of 90 days. When the permission to stay granted on entry ends you apply for a 1 year extension.