Beijing Has Something to Say About TM30

[legend49]

20 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

this is a great "don't come to or invest in Thailand" article. touches upon every issue. i love this part:

 

"Its extension to all residences now means that Thai landlords or property-owners accommodating several hundred thousand foreigners, ranging from business people, technical experts, teachers, expatriates married to Thais and retirees, are now required to report their return both after travel abroad and after week-end visits to the beach or business trips to another city within the kingdom."

 

 

 

The more negative press and pressure brought against this dumb form the better. Someone with Thai authority might wake up to the loss of face this place is going through.

[DPKANKAN]

Asia Times. 

Quote;- "As one foreign security analyst noted: “It is not a coincidence that in order to deal with real and urgent 21st century problems the Immigration Bureau has resorted to dusting off a law passed four decades ago before the word ‘globalization’ was even thought of. It’s attempting to impose 1979 on 2019.”

 

????????????????????????

 

Does that not just sum up the inane irritation laws here!!!

[DPKANKAN]

21 hours ago, Martyp said:

China has one of the most extensive surveillance and facial recognition systems in the world. What they ought to be doing is selling their technology to Thailand to blanket the country with cameras. Then no one would need to file a TM30 ever.

As I have said several times, why don't they issue us long term expats on retirement, marriage or even some work permits with Thai ID cards. They can have a proper info chip with all our information on.

It will also cut down on the inordinate amount of quadruplicated copies of paperwork required.

Naaahhh. They would only need half the irritation staff employed then!! ????????????????

[Peterw42]

9 minutes ago, DPKANKAN said:

As I have said several times, why don't they issue us long term expats on retirement, marriage or even some work permits with Thai ID cards. They can have a proper info chip with all our information on.

It will also cut down on the inordinate amount of quadruplicated copies of paperwork required.

Naaahhh. They would only need half the irritation staff employed then!! ????????????????

That idea was put foward at the FCC meeting, use the existing pink ID etc.

It would be a great solution.

 

[OOTAI]

If as stated by Govt. sources the need/justification for to TM30 is National Security then the reporting needs to be done by Thai's as for anyone else Thailand's security is irrelevant. So once they start enforcing the need to report onto the Thai landlords then I might start believing that BS. Why should a "visitor's" Visa be refused because someone else failed to do their National duty?

Asking or relying on someone who is a risk to National Security to voluntarily report themselves in my opinion would be the same as putting criminals in charge of the Police stations!

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, legend49 said:

The more negative press and pressure brought against this dumb form the better. Someone with Thai authority might wake up to the loss of face this place is going through.

The TM30 system, as stupid as it is, doesn't result in a loss of face. Being forced to change it by others is loss of face.

 

[remorhaz]

I live in China and we don't have to do any reporting if we travel for a few days *with the exception* of staying at a hotel.  Hotels do report your whereabouts to the police and if you move house you must report this to the police within 30 days.  Only certain hotels can cater to us and this sometimes causes problems but the reason isn't exactly what you think.  The software used for reporting our location is specialized while the standard software used in hotels only accepts Chinese ID cards and not Passport numbers which can differ in length.  Essentially the rule here is if you move permanently report it and if you are traveling make sure there is a friend you can stay with or the town has a bigger hotel.  We never see a form when we travel it is entirely handled by the hotel.

[boriga]

Not the least ironic part of this article is the fact that China has its own equivalent of TM30 which is and has been strictly enforced for many years.

 

Requiring 'within 48 hour' reporting not 24, but with an army of neighborhood watch snitches encouraged and even paid to report possible infringements.

 

Pots...,.ketles.......

[Peterw42]

6 minutes ago, OOTAI said:

If as stated by Govt. sources the need/justification for to TM30 is National Security then the reporting needs to be done by Thai's as for anyone else Thailand's security is irrelevant. So once they start enforcing the need to report onto the Thai landlords then I might start believing that BS. Why should a "visitor's" Visa be refused because someone else failed to do their National duty?

Asking or relying on someone who is a risk to National Security to voluntarily report themselves in my opinion would be the same as putting criminals in charge of the Police stations!

They are not relying on the criminals to report themselves, they are relying on every property in thailand to report the criminals. 

 

[saminoz]

22 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes thats right but its only an arrival/stay that gets reported, the hilton hotel or a landlord doesnt tell immigration I have moved/left, the next place I stay at tells immigration.

You totally miss the point.  Those of us who live here and have our own properties (even if in wife's name) would have to report that we had arrived home after a weekend or 24 hours away!

That is police state <deleted> for sure.

Blinkers much?

[neeray]

The train leaves CM late afternoon and arrives Bkk early AM. What about TM30 status in this case?

Same for driving. 

A camping trip would seem to pose a problem too (yes, they camp in Thailand). 

[neeray]

Do you not consider “bad press” as loss of face?

i do. 

[Peterw42]

13 minutes ago, saminoz said:

You totally miss the point.  Those of us who live here and have our own properties (even if in wife's name) would have to report that we had arrived home after a weekend or 24 hours away!

That is police state <deleted> for sure.

Blinkers much?

What point have I missed, i simply stated there are not TM30 reports done for leaving a property, there are only reports for staying/arriving at a property. I do live here and own a property, thats how I know nobody does a TM30 to advise leaving a property, A TM30 is required when you arrive or return to a property.

The OP incorrectly states that TM30s are to report leaving a property.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Peterw42

[Martyp]

20 minutes ago, neeray said:

The train leaves CM late afternoon and arrives Bkk early AM. What about TM30 status in this case?

Same for driving. 

A camping trip would seem to pose a problem too (yes, they camp in Thailand). 

As a practical matter if the train or campsite didn't report you to Immigration then you are not going to have to tell Immigration that you left and came back because there is no record of you having traveled. You are only going to be asked about a TM30 if you have contact with the authorities. If you happen to get arrested by the police in the train or campsite I'm pretty sure you have bigger problems than a TM30. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Martyp

[PommieOz]

When living in China residence had to be reported (and changes of residence) to the police together with a copy of my passport. 

[SoonOh]

Perhaps China will "influence" Thai to abolish TM30

[55Jay]

Security isn't convenient, so there will always be bitching about it. 

 

Problem is, the security hierarchy is honchoed by gray haired gorillas who've done their time and ascended to the top ranks; some just trying to avoid being found out and sacked before they can get the pension. 

 

We got a rare glimpse recently at the BKK Correspondent's meeting.  The Major General was stressed, <deleted> off at the temerity of farangs, and the public in general, trying his best to deflect and defend, with occassional slips into an understanding, conciliatory tone.   He passed the hot potato to the underling in the vest, who was defensive and ineffective.  And then their collective sigh of relief when the spotlight was mercifully put on the Major - the computer geek hiding just off stage, mastermind of the website and App UIs.

 

I gave them all points for at least showing up, that must have been tough, especially for the Major General, who seemed to get the drift, but seemed mostly baffled by all this computery techie websitey whinging nonsense.  The take-away from the meeting?

 

Just fill the form, damnit!  It ain't that hard!

 

The cart will, eventually, get in front of the horse, or, err, buffalo.  My provincial immigration office got passport scanners about 5 or so years ago.  Didn't seem to add much value to the process, but they look really cool. 

 

I can imagine one day, short of the App/website working reliably under load, we'll be able to get "swiped in" at the airport on arrival then swiped again for the TM30 report at our provincial Immi office.  Perhaps one of those Uni student intern gnomes behind the counter can axe us if our address/information is still the same, and then your done.  No need to fill paper forms with redundant information, queue, then endure 7 minutes of Nok the Volunteer axing my wife how our holiday abroad was, if they had Somtam there, then, in a sudden, hushed tone, as if she just realized I was there, axes the wife, "Does your farang pasa Thai?"...... as my eyes roll into the back of my skull. 

[Burma Bill]

23 hours ago, essox essox said:

so every time i go out for a drive....come back I have to tell the IMOS I have been out and now returned??????

Technically "yes", but only if you drive into a neighboring province and cross back into your "home" province after 24 hours. Personally, I think this is totally ridiculous and I use common sense - say no more! If your drive includes a hotel stop for one night or longer, then a copy of your passport taken at reception is sufficient - the onus is on the hotel to inform IO on a TM30. 

[neeray]

2 hours ago, OOTAI said:

Asking or relying on someone who is a risk to National Security to voluntarily report themselves in my opinion would be the same as putting criminals in charge of the Police stations!

Isn't that already the case?

[elgenon]

I would think that rich Chinese would feel they don't need to do it. 

[Surasak]

I've said before and will say again. It has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with control.

[onecar]

China has the same thing as the TM30. It’s done behind the scenes for you when you check into a hotel.

And you only need to register your address at the police station once a year or when you move, not every 90 days like in Thailand. 

Technically in China you are supposed to re-register at the police station every time you come back from a trip abroad with your new entry-date, but it’s not enforced because that would be nuts and the guys & gals at the station get annoyed enough when you show up to register once a year. 

Lived there for 15 years with no problem. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by onecar

[ThaiFelix]

1 hour ago, Surasak said:

I've said before and will say again. It has nothing to do with national security and everything to do with control.

From what I have read it is pressure from certain Western nations who are worried about terrorist payback that is forcing Thailand to enforce this law for all farang, not just those who stay in hotels.  The same tracking happens with our money hence the need to declare the purpose of our money transfers. 

 

Thailand has a long history of being a place where you can pay to hide.

 

Please dont ask for a source, there are several and I forget.  Do a google yourself if you doubt it.

Edited August 28, 2019 by ThaiFelix

[Fairynuff]

5 hours ago, OOTAI said:

criminals in charge of the Police stations!

Isn’t this already the case?????????

[teutonian]

On 8/12/2019 at 11:24 AM, Seismic said:

Not stupid at all. There are a large number of projects where poor building practices have caused demolition or major rework.

such as the brand new Baan MaiKhao by Sansiri Beachfront Condominium in Phuket.  Under Repair and reconstruction basically since the day it’s transferred. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by teutonian

[teutonian]

On 8/27/2019 at 5:06 AM, Peterw42 said:

Its great to see some international press coverage etc but they appear to get it wrong with their understanding of TM30.

Its a report of a foreigner arrival, not their departure from a property.

There is a big poster about Section 37 requirement to request permission to leave 48 hours before leaving the home address for another province ....

 

 

[Fairynuff]

5 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

The TM30 system, as stupid as it is, doesn't result in a loss of face. Being forced to change it by others is loss of face.

 

They’ll forget about their face once their pockets are empty

[jollyhangmon]

3 hours ago, neeray said:

The train leaves CM late afternoon and arrives Bkk early AM. What about TM30 status in this case?

Same for driving. 

A camping trip would seem to pose a problem too (yes, they camp in Thailand). 

 

... been exactly there my friend, just Monday.

Been told I had to keep & show (!!) the fn overnight busticket by one of these brownclad oxygen wasters, had quite a laugh ...!!

Told her to fix that with the bus company (which asked for passportdata when purchasing the ticket btw.) In case she felt a strong desire as I am just not interested in the slightest in their domestic squabbles, same goes for their TM30 bs and landlords/-ladies as the one in charge, not me, etc., pp. ...

 

'But ... but ... your next extension ...' sure as hell came the blackmailing answer - well, we can start from scratch each and every year then I replied & I'm sure your collegues who do the real work here will be thrilled ... seems to have been a first for her, someone telling her where she could stuff her extension if need be, as she then quickly did her actual job - one more dumb rubberstamp - and I was outta that shole ...

 

Frankly I've pretty much had it with those civil failures here, as said before they're wearing brown for good reasons - all related puns, associations & imagined probable brain-contents fully intended ...

 

[rumak]

On 8/27/2019 at 10:18 AM, highonthai said:

I own a home in CM and have a couple of rental properties also.

I'm hoping that this TM30 thing goes away. In the past we only TM30'd the tenant once, that was it. I'm surprised that we have not heard from any Thai property owners on this issue yet. 

I have commented a number of times on our  experience as landlords here in CM.  Here is a copy of what i wrote in a recent thread.  :

I will give MY take on this based on my experience as a Landlord in Chiangmai.   I do believe that many other provinces would treat it the same way..(but of that I of course am not sure.... Here is how we do it:

WHEN A PERSON wants to rent from us we tell them what CM immig told us.  We as owners should do the first one when the tenant moves in.  After that the tenant must go WITH THEIR PASSPORT and initial tm30 receipt to the immig office to report that they have just returned.  Up till now CM only requires that after returning from out of the country .  NOTE:  the more people that go there and start complaining the quicker they might require more stringent reporting ! 

Five years of doing this (since they started enforcing the tm30) and we nor a tenant has ever had a problem.  If someone told us the we as owners had to do it every time we would not rent to them.

The big problem for renters is really when they rent somewhere that is not within a short drive to the immig office ( CM is a very large province, for example)   

The ongoing and never resolved argument about who is responsible is made VOID when the tenant and landlord agree beforehand how it will be handled.   Just like many immig things, it is open to interpretation, not black and white as the debaters insist.  Like I said,  I was told by CM how to do it and we have not had any problems following it that way.

[Destiny1990]

Instead of TM30 Can we just get chipped at the airport for monitoring purposes?