Where do I go?' EU citizens face legal limbo after decades in Britain

[nahkit]

1 hour ago, Blue Muton said:

That's the point of the article. They have applied to stay as EU citizens and have wrongly been denied. They should not be forced to apply for British citizenship. You ridiculously claimed that obtaining citizenship as a spouse of a British citizen is easy. It is not easy and it is very expensive.

You don't have to be, or become, a British citizen to apply for indefinite leave to remain as the spouse of a British citizen. Get your facts right!

 

Not once in either of my posts have I said that they need to acquire British citizenship, I don't even mention the word "citizenship" in either post and you have the gall to accuse me in a previous post of having reading and comprehension problems.

 

"You ridiculously claimed that obtaining citizenship as a spouse of a British citizen is easy."

 

Please reference which post I said this in.

Edited September 2, 2019 by nahkit

[Blue Muton]

1 hour ago, nahkit said:

You don't have to be, or become, a British citizen to apply for indefinite leave to remain as the spouse of a British citizen. Get your facts right!

 

Not once in either of my posts have I said that they need to acquire British citizenship, I don't even mention the word "citizenship" in either post and you have the gall to accuse me in a previous post of having reading and comprehension problems.

 

"You ridiculously claimed that obtaining citizenship as a spouse of a British citizen is easy."

 

Please reference which post I said this in.

True you didn't specify citizenship but then again you didn't specify ILR either. In any event my point remains valid. Your claim that it is easy for her to remain as a spouse of a UK citizen is still ridiculous. The process is not easy, I have been through it for my wife and when the people dealing with it made an obvious error they would not even reply to any communication pointing that out and asking that it be put right. They had a backlog of a couple of years of complaints to deal with first.

 

To secure ILR she would need to show proof of residence to the same people that have already wrongly rejected her previous application. We know that the decision is wrong from what "her" MP has said and he would most probably have seen the evidence before reaching his conclusion.

 

The cost of ILR is around £2,400. How can that be justified when she ought to be entitled to stay in the UK as a long term resident EU national? Should the UK expats in Spain and elsewhere in the EU have to pay similar sums?

[7by7]

18 hours ago, Thongkorn said:

21 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Go to the Costas and say that to the British pensioners living there; but make sure you have your EHIC card!

Nobody ask them to leave their choice and the British People who still live in the UK  have had their vote, To leave with all that it entails,

And come to think of it not many Brits in Europe live 6/7/8/10 to a house  and claim for children back in the UK as many Eastern Europeans do, who have never paid any tax over the years.you say they are  Senor Citysens,  They pay there way in ever which European country they live , Dont think any Country will kick out paying Customers.

 Yet again you claim that many Eastern Europeans live 6/7/8/10 to a house and claim benefits for children back home and don't pay tax.

 

I am not going to say it doesn't happen, but all the figures show EU migrants pay more in tax than they take out in benefits.

 

One example from a multitude: NHS boosted by EU migrants who pay more tax than Brits, report finds .

 

As for large numbers sleeping in accommodation; if you knew anything about the construction industry you would know this is common amongst construction workers of all nationalities on large infrastructure projects where rather than commuting from home, which may be many miles away, every day they live in temporary accommodation, often caravans or portacabins, provided by their employer. I can see such from my window as I type.

[nontabury]

29 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

True you didn't specify citizenship but then again you didn't specify ILR either. In any event my point remains valid. Your claim that it is easy for her to remain as a spouse of a UK citizen is still ridiculous. The process is not easy, I have been through it for my wife and when the people dealing with it made an obvious error they would not even reply to any communication pointing that out and asking that it be put right. They had a backlog of a couple of years of complaints to deal with first.

 

To secure ILR she would need to show proof of residence to the same people that have already wrongly rejected her previous application. We know that the decision is wrong from what "her" MP has said and he would most probably have seen the evidence before reaching his conclusion.

 

The cost of ILR is around £2,400. How can that be justified when she ought to be entitled to stay in the UK as a long term resident EU national? Should the UK expats in Spain and elsewhere in the EU have to pay similar sums?

 

Why should she be exempt from, what I admit is an exorbitant amount, just because she comes from a foreign country called the E.u. Many Brits have brought their Thai wives to the U.K from another foreign country called Thailand, and they had to pay,

[Blue Muton]

1 minute ago, nontabury said:

 

Why should she be exempt from, what I admit is an exorbitant amount, just because she comes from a foreign country called the E.u. Many Brits have brought their Thai wives to the U.K from another foreign country called Thailand, and they had to pay,

Have you even read the article? How many Brits took their two-year old Thai wives to the UK?

 

Yours is a nonsensical comparison, the one that I made re the Brits living in other EU countries is far more pertinent.

[7by7]

19 hours ago, evadgib said:

And if you'd read my OP instead of going off on one yet again you'd have understood the point I had made.

 The point you made was that she and "her ilk" had "done sod all to help themselves since the 2016 vote." 

 

Which obviously indicates that you did not know that applications for the settlement scheme didn't open until January 2019!

 

As I said, EU/EEA nationals could have applied for PR after 5 years residence and then naturalisation a year after that if they so desired; and many did. But there was no legal requirement for them to so do. But after the referendum the government advice to them was basically "wait and see."

 

Brits living in Thailand can apply for Thai residence and then Thai citizenship if they want to; all it requires is a little bit of effort to qualify. Have you done so?

 

If not, then I suggest you put your own house in order before lambasting others for basically doing the same as you; the minimum required to continue living in the country of your choice.

[Blue Muton]

11 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Yet again you claim that many Eastern Europeans live 6/7/8/10 to a house and claim benefits for children back home and don't pay tax.

 

I am not going to say it doesn't happen, but all the figures show EU migrants pay more in tax than they take out in benefits.

 

One example from a multitude: NHS boosted by EU migrants who pay more tax than Brits, report finds .

 

As for large numbers sleeping in accommodation; if you knew anything about the construction industry you would know this is common amongst construction workers of all nationalities on large infrastructure projects where rather than commuting from home, which may be many miles away, every day they live in temporary accommodation, often caravans or portacabins, provided by their employer. I can see such from my window as I type.

There is no EU law that requires the UK government to pay benefits to children living outside of the UK.

[7by7]

@zorrow424

 

I'm not going to quote your post in full; just some; starting with

7 hours ago, zorrow424 said:

Link? look it up

which you repeat several times after each of your unfounded accusations.

 

I have looked them up; and found nothing to substantiate them.

 

Maybe I am looking in the wrong place?

 

You have made the claims, it is up to you to provide the evidence to back them up.

 

But as your comments about the Irish in your next post show, you are not interested in facts, just xenophobia.

 

[7by7]

4 hours ago, nahkit said:

Neither of them has applied to stay as the spouse of a British citizen (which they are both entitled to do), they are both applying for settled status as EU citizens.

 

Seems you're the one with the reading problem, not me.

 But such applications cannot be made in the UK.

 

In addition, the visa fees etc. would have to be paid, and the financial requirement met. Meeting the latter would be impossible if the EU national was the wage earner in the household.

 

They are entitled to apply for settled status as EU/EEA nationals, and meet all the requiremnts. that they have been refused due to poor training of and incompetence by Home Office staff is not their fault.

 

4 hours ago, nahkit said:

22 hours ago, 7by7 said:

The woman in the OP had the relevant permission to remain in the UK because she is a EU national; just as Brits in other EU countries had the same there.

The woman in the op arrived in the UK with her family 55 years ago, that was 8 years before the UK joined the EU.

 

How's your reading comprehension?

Better than your knowledge of history!

 

Many people who are now EU/EEA nationals arrived in the UK before we joined the EC, now EU. But when we did they fell under the various FoM regulations, which were all combined into one directive in 2005, which entitled them to remain here.

 

 

 

[zorrow424]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

@zorrow424

 

I'm not going to quote your post in full; just some; starting with

which you repeat several times after each of your unfounded accusations.

 

I have looked them up; and found nothing to substantiate them.

 

Maybe I am looking in the wrong place?

 

You have made the claims, it is up to you to provide the evidence to back them up.

 

But as your comments about the Irish in your next post show, you are not interested in facts, just xenophobia.

 

Unfounded? indeed  just the luvvie  strolling by.   Not pointing you in any direction  I quoted it accurately,there to be read,up to you to prove incorrect

 

  irish mean nothing,backstop whatever,like the overwhelming majority of GB could not give a toss for them or it

 

 Facts?,just choose which "facts" interest you,but please do not attempt to burden the average UK taxpayer with your particular obsession. 

 

 Enter any English pub,club, assembly spouting your rubbish,you may well enter standing up,but carried out on exit  , guaranteed

[7by7]

2 hours ago, nahkit said:

You don't have to be, or become, a British citizen to apply for indefinite leave to remain as the spouse of a British citizen. Get your facts right!

One cannot apply for ILR if one is a British citizen! Get your facts right!

 

To obtain ILR as a spouse/partner one has to make an application to come to the UK; which cannot be done in the UK.

 

If that is granted, 2.5 years later one makes an application for Further Leave to Remain.

 

If that is granted then after a further 2.5 years, 5 in total, one can apply for ILR.

 

Of course, at each stage the exorbitant fees have to be paid and all the requirements, including the financial one, met.

[7by7]

1 minute ago, zorrow424 said:

<snip>

Not pointing you in any direction  I quoted it accurately,there to be read,up to you to prove incorrect

 The usual feeble excuse posted by the likes of you when challenged to produce evidence to back up their claims.

 

As I said; I have looked for evidence and found none. 

 

Provide such, or admit it doesn't exist.

 

2 minutes ago, zorrow424 said:

Enter any English pub,club, assembly spouting your rubbish,you may well enter standing up,but carried out on exit  , guaranteed

I had such a conversation, spouting what you call my rubbish, in my local 'Spoons on Friday. 'Spoons is not known as a hotbed of Remainers; far from it.

 

I admit I was a bit wobbly on leaving, but that was down to the copious amounts of TEA consumed!

 

[zorrow424]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 The usual feeble excuse posted by the likes of you when challenged to produce evidence to back up their claims.

 

As I said; I have looked for evidence and found none. 

 

Provide such, or admit it doesn't exist.

 

I had such a conversation, spouting what you call my rubbish, in my local 'Spoons on Friday. 'Spoons is not known as a hotbed of Remainers; far from it.

 

I admit I was a bit wobbly on leaving, but that was down to the copious amounts of TEA consumed!

 

Unlike you with nothing to do all day than spouting the particular obsession,it would surprise  to find it accurately described,look it up,do not want to? up to you

  Keep banging on "you looked in wrong place"  that about describes it  go look 

[soalbundy]

On 8/31/2019 at 8:04 AM, Somtamnication said:

They can go home if they are unhappy. It is time for Britain to be returned to the British. I suppose someone will see that statement has totally wrong!

They can have it, these EU people are lucky they have the choice of all of the EU countries to live and work in without hassle, the British have only the UK and wild horses couldn't drag me back to 'exist' there.

[zorrow424]

Brexit,in its purest form is racist,  so what?,cutting ties with the EU also cut off the rhetoric of EU to accept quotas,not that UK was obliged,but EU would have got around to "sharing the burden" in time.  Merkel can keep her million plus asylum seekers,also the ones who refuse to learn German,with the hope they make it to the UK in time

[Sujo]

20 minutes ago, zorrow424 said:

Unlike you with nothing to do all day than spouting the particular obsession,it would surprise  to find it accurately described,look it up,do not want to? up to you

  Keep banging on "you looked in wrong place"  that about describes it  go look 

Baseless accusation = troll

[7by7]

8 hours ago, zorrow424 said:

Unlike you with nothing to do all day than spouting the particular obsession,it would surprise  to find it accurately described,look it up,do not want to? up to you

  Keep banging on "you looked in wrong place"  that about describes it  go look 

 Having a family, job and social life I do not have the time nor inclination to go searching in the more obscure places on the internet for evidence to back up your claims.

 

You made these claims; that you cannot provide any evidence to back them up indicates very strongly that they are mere fantasies.

[7by7]

8 hours ago, soalbundy said:

They can have it, these EU people are lucky they have the choice of all of the EU countries to live and work in without hassle, the British have only the UK and wild horses couldn't drag me back to 'exist' there.

 We British currently have the choice of the UK plus the other 27 EU members, plus the three EFTA members plus Switzerland; thanks to the Freedom of Movement directive. A right currently taken up by nearly 2 million Britons.

 

Of course, after Brexit those already living there will be able to remain; and I can only hope the relevant departments dealing with their applications are more efficient than the Home Office has been!

 

But those not already there will lose this right after Brexit. Yet another benefit we will lose which Cummings and his political mouthpieces 'forgot' to mention during the campaign!

[kingdong]

On 8/30/2019 at 7:15 PM, tomacht8 said:

Chaos, stress, ambiguity, confusion, arbitrary. Injustices, tears and anger.
These are the personal collateral damage of Brexit for many people affected.

 

Brexit is the worst organized and largest intervention in the living conditions of so many people, after world war 2.

didn,t take long for project fear to raise its ugly head.

[nontabury]

13 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 The point you made was that she and "her ilk" had "done sod all to help themselves since the 2016 vote." 

 

Which obviously indicates that you did not know that applications for the settlement scheme didn't open until January 2019!

 

As I said, EU/EEA nationals could have applied for PR after 5 years residence and then naturalisation a year after that if they so desired; and many did. But there was no legal requirement for them to so do. But after the referendum the government advice to them was basically "wait and see."

 

Brits living in Thailand can apply for Thai residence and then Thai citizenship if they want to; all it requires is a little bit of effort to qualify. Have you done so?

 

If not, then I suggest you put your own house in order before lambasting others for basically doing the same as you; the minimum required to continue living in the country of your choice.

 

Perhaps before you shout your head off, you should check how difficult it is for a foreigner to obtain a Thai passport. And further, check how many Farangs are successful in actually obtaining a Thai passport.

 

[nontabury]

13 hours ago, 7by7 said:

One cannot apply for ILR if one is a British citizen! Get your facts right!

 

To obtain ILR as a spouse/partner one has to make an application to come to the UK; which cannot be done in the UK.

 

If that is granted, 2.5 years later one makes an application for Further Leave to Remain.

 

If that is granted then after a further 2.5 years, 5 in total, one can apply for ILR.

 

Of course, at each stage the exorbitant fees have to be paid and all the requirements, including the financial one, met.

 

I know of one Thai married to a Brit living in the U.K with their two children. She’s been here now for more than 10yrs on What visa, I don’t know. But I do know she’s never attempted to obtain a Brit passport. 

Likewise I also know of a Chinese lady married to a Brit, who has been here for 5+ yrs. Again no attempt to obtain a British passport, as she does not want to give up her Chinese passport.

 

[nontabury]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 We British currently have the choice of the UK plus the other 27 EU members, plus the three EFTA members plus Switzerland; thanks to the Freedom of Movement directive. A right currently taken up by nearly 2 million Britons.

 

Of course, after Brexit those already living there will be able to remain; and I can only hope the relevant departments dealing with their applications are more efficient than the Home Office has been!

 

But those not already there will lose this right after Brexit. Yet another benefit we will lose which Cummings and his political mouthpieces 'forgot' to mention during the campaign!

You forgot to mention how many more E.u citizens reside in the U.K. than Brits living in the E.u. 

Secondly, I have not read or heard of any political party advocating a complete stop to E.u national from coming to work in the U.K. The Brexit party, are very clear on this point, they wish to implement an Aussie point system, including no discrimination regarding Nationality,Race,Gender or Religion. This of course would apply to citizens of the E.u. Exactly the same to citizens from any other country.

 

[daveAustin]

On 8/30/2019 at 7:15 PM, tomacht8 said:

Chaos, stress, ambiguity, confusion, arbitrary. Injustices, tears and anger.
These are the personal collateral damage of Brexit for many people affected.

 

Brexit is the worst organized and largest intervention in the living conditions of so many people, after world war 2.

What a load of self-absorbed, left-leaning b....o...ollox. The UK typically bends over backwards for non-Brits. I am sorry these genuine people are caught up, but it is the very few amid many thousands upon thousands that are taking the p!$$ and swamping public services! Indeed; try living UK2019 friend.

Edited September 2, 2019 by daveAustin

[zorrow424]

6 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Having a family, job and social life I do not have the time nor inclination to go searching in the more obscure places on the internet for evidence to back up your claims.

 

You made these claims; that you cannot provide any evidence to back them up indicates very strongly that they are mere fantasies.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjN_be6o7PkAhUIsY8KHcpfCIEQFjAOegQICRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-3403136%2FHow-20-000-Indians-slipped-UK-Portuguese-passports-legally.html&usg=AOvVaw3nsl2s_m1O495c4bYqFbNR

 

  This one, 100s more, states how 20,000  Indians slipped through the net applying for Portuguese passports ,but but surprisingly arrived into the UK....now Id put the figure far higher,probably 100s of thousands,yet your "family commitments"  lol must blind you to the obvious,never mind you must have "missed it" ,but please do bang on about leave to remain...this lot wont,pitchforked out in less than two months time    Good one !

[zorrow424]

7 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Of course, after Brexit those already living there will be able to remain; and I can only hope the relevant departments dealing with their applications are more efficient than the Home Office has been!

Of course the efficiency of the home office according to you is always in doubt,not so,its efficiency plus, just get rid is the name of the game,and the more they(home office) get rid the better for us all  (UK)  do not give a toss for the ones tossed out

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

Perhaps before you shout your head off, you should check how difficult it is for a foreigner to obtain a Thai passport. And further, check how many Farangs are successful in actually obtaining a Thai passport.

 

So they should do it, but it is too difficult for me.

[luckyluke]

The only reason I can imagine that so much people want to reach and stay in the U.K.,is the high benefits they can obtain there. 

 

Maybe simplistic, but why don't the U.K. inplement more strict conditions to avoid this? 

 

In Flanders, one of the conditions to obtain a benefit is to know the language. 

 

More immigrants decide than to go to the Brussels region, or to Wallonia, because there they don't have too. 

 

So in a little( insignifiant for some) country as Belgium,  there can even be local reglementations, where the E.U. can't say nothing about. 

[nahkit]

19 hours ago, 7by7 said:

One cannot apply for ILR if one is a British citizen! Get your facts right!

Where you drunk when you wrote that, go back and read what I wrote!

 

Never mind, I'll re-print it here for you.

 

" You don't have to be, or become, a British citizen to apply for indefinite leave to remain as the spouse of a British citizen. "

Edited September 3, 2019 by nahkit

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, nahkit said:

Where you drunk when you wrote that, go back and read what I wrote!

 

Never mind, I'll re-print it here for you.

 

" You don't have to be, or become, a British citizen to apply for indefinite leave to remain as the spouse of a British citizen. "

I do not wish to be pendantic but 7by7 response is accurate with the context of your post.

 

Your post implies a British Citizen can apply for ILR

[nahkit]

1 minute ago, cleopatra2 said:

I do not wish to be pendantic but 7by7 response is accurate with the context of your post.

 

Your post implies a British Citizen can apply for ILR

Why would a British citizen need any sort of permission to stay? Think about it.