Brexit: PM Johnson faces mounting legal, political, diplomatic challenges

[david555]

5 minutes ago, bangrak said:

Hmm, you make me think about something: what will happen with/to the thousands(!) of British b(ur)eaucrats earning 'huge salaries' working for the EU (as part of the UK's staff quota in the EU's administration), and with the family of most of them presently comfortably living in Belgium, Luxemburg, France, ...? ???? ?!?

They all go for politic mandates in the U.K. ...same as Farage …. the good point about Farage is that we finally get rid of that one , now he can go start destroy the U.K. as it is always his label to be a destroyer , and even bin paid for it by E.U.

I foresee 10 years politic turmoil in U.K. even long after they  left the E.U.  as it is started already

Edited September 3, 2019 by david555

[nauseus]

51 minutes ago, sandyf said:

So you think that post brexit the farmers will get priority over the essential services, the red bus money is now going to the farmers, good one.

Deflection again. But we're used to that.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

You should remember who asked to leave what.

In Feb 2016 the EU published a document on how an Article 50 application would be handled, something the UK would have agreed to and well before the referendum. The UK government however refused to follow the guidelines they had agreed to, and of course everyone blames the EU and in particular the Commission for acting on behalf of the Heads of Government of the member states.

 

"The European Council (without the participation of the Member State concerned) then provides guidelines for the negotiations between the EU and the state concerned, with the aim of concluding an agreement setting out concrete withdrawal arrangements."

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2016/577971/EPRS_BRI(2016)577971_EN.pdf

It's a briefing. It basically is Article 50 for Dummies. The Commission or a nominee can act on behalf of the EU. But ownership of the withdrawal negotiations or the agenda and sequencing of them does not belong exclusively to the EU. This was May's first giveaway... and the first thing that rightly <deleted> Davis off.  

[Stupooey]

25 minutes ago, bangrak said:

Hmm, you make me think about something: what will happen with/to the thousands(!) of British b(ur)eaucrats earning 'huge salaries' working for the EU (as part of the UK's staff quota in the EU's administration), and with the family of most of them presently comfortably living in Belgium, Luxemburg, France, ...? ???? ?!?

No doubt many will lose their jobs, particularly galling if they had been in them for 15 years and therefore not been permitted to vote in the referendum. Similarly disenfranchised are the 2½ million or so 18 to 21 year olds who have had no say in the long-term future of their country. Just two reasons why the farcical cut-price referendum (the electoral roll was not adjusted due to "cost") was meaningless, regardless of what Cameron said. 

[nauseus]

 

5 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

No doubt many will lose their jobs, particularly galling if they had been in them for 15 years and therefore not been permitted to vote in the referendum. Similarly disenfranchised are the 2½ million or so 18 to 21 year olds who have had no say in the long-term future of their country. Just two reasons why the farcical cut-price referendum (the electoral roll was not adjusted due to "cost") was meaningless, regardless of what Cameron said. 

What are you talking about? The 18+ olds did have a say. 

Edited September 3, 2019 by nauseus

[nauseus]

48 minutes ago, david555 said:

So who was the one who dragged you in that bad deal organization ,which P.M.? 

Anyway thanks for the History lesson ...

And this is not taking away the fact De Gaulle was a clairvoyant to  find U.K. did not fitted in ...as proven now 5555 lol????

It was the Deceiver in Chief   H E A T H. 

[david555]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It was the Deceiver in Chief   H E A T H. 

waw a conservative …. who would might have thought that …..lol 5555

[bangrak]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It was the Deceiver in Chief   H E A T H. 

Hmm, and another member of the conservative party, wasn't he?

[candide]

42 minutes ago, bangrak said:

Hmm, you make me think about something: what will happen with/to the thousands(!) of British b(ur)eaucrats earning 'huge salaries' working for the EU (as part of the UK's staff quota in the EU's administration), and with the family of most of them presently comfortably living in Belgium, Luxemburg, France, ...? ???? ?!?

From what I know, those directly employed as staff by EU intitutions can stay, according to their contract duration. Others, such as assistants to British MEPs, will have to leave.

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

If it was "Not too bad", there would have been a totally different result.

After Oct 31st all this additional funding will certainly be coming from the taxpayer, time to wake up to reality.

Do you really not get it?

 

We don't get any net funding from the EU, we send them loads and they let us have a bit back and give the rest to prop us the likes of Hungary, Greece, Spain etc. This "additional funding" is actually our money, minus the Billions they've creamed off the top to subsidize the net beneficiaries.

 

Have a look at this chart showing contributors at the top vs beneficiaries at the bottom. A bit heavy at the bottom/left hand side wouldn't you say? Now imagine it without the UK.

 

And as for our NHS, how is the NHS in the rest of the Euro zone doing? Oh that's right, they don't have one. Good luck replacing the UK in the chart below. We'll have plenty of extra money for subsidizing OUR farmers instead of propping up the failing economies in Spain and Greece.

 

[Stupooey]

37 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

What are you talking about? The 18+ olds did have a say. 

Stop nit picking. Okay, they may have had a say, but they haven't had a vote.

[Stupooey]

34 minutes ago, bangrak said:

Hmm, and another member of the conservative party, wasn't he?

Yes, I remember when he was voted in, to everyone's great surprise. Of course the electorate at the time were desperate for the UK to join the Common Market, such was the state of the Country, and felt that Heath was more likely to succeed. Wilson was also in favour of joining, but was demanding more stringent terms from Europe, which probably cost him the election.

[david555]

8 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

Yes, I remember when he was voted in, to everyone's great surprise. Of course the electorate at the time were desperate for the UK to join the Common Market, such was the state of the Country, and felt that Heath was more likely to succeed. Wilson was also in favour of joining, but was demanding more stringent terms from Europe, which probably cost him the election.

So they where happy to join and welcomed to benefit from it , and now wish it same for free and no obligations.... ideal deal I would say …. I would also something like that  in the car sector …. a Lamborghini for a BMW price ….lol

[nauseus]

59 minutes ago, david555 said:

waw a conservative …. who would might have thought that …..lol 5555

So what? He was followed by another Tory (Major) then Blair and Brown (Labour).

[david555]

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

So what? He was followed by another Tory (Major) then Blair and Brown (Labour).

Just pointing that he a Conservative  dragged you in that bad undemocratic E.U.

A Conservative , oh maybe that time they where no divided in leavers and remainders ….only 1 group...gainers ...? And U.K. was  in need in bad times to be a member...?, now wanting it for free and no obligations , perfect deal ….I admit … if U.K. could achieve       

Edited September 3, 2019 by david555

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

 But ownership of the withdrawal negotiations or the agenda and sequencing of them does not belong exclusively to the EU.

Of course it does, only the delusional would think otherwise.

The EU makes the rules for joining and it makes the rules for leaving, just like any other organisation.

[nauseus]

29 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

Stop nit picking. Okay, they may have had a say, but they haven't had a vote.

They had a vote too.  

[vogie]

Paul Brand (ITV) has tweeted that Nigels Farages Brexit Party will not stand again againgst Tory seats in a GE.

 

BREAKING: Nigel Farage confirms Brexit Party won’t stand against Conservative candidates in an election if Boris Johnson promises to leave the EU without a deal. “Of course we’ll put country before party.” Massively helps the Tory vote, while the opposition is divided @BBCr4today

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

We'll have plenty of extra money for subsidizing OUR farmers instead of propping up the failing economies in Spain and Greece.

 

You do not get it.

Contributions to the EU are less than 1% of income tax expenditure, hardly "plenty of extra money". To put it in perspective the EU contributions would pay about one tenth of the interest on the national debt.

Bojo has spent the contributions many times over, the only way you can pay the farmers is with increased taxation, but nobody will want that so the farmers and everyone else that was in receipt of funding will go without.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Stupooey said:

Yes, I remember when he was voted in, to everyone's great surprise. Of course the electorate at the time were desperate for the UK to join the Common Market, such was the state of the Country, and felt that Heath was more likely to succeed. Wilson was also in favour of joining, but was demanding more stringent terms from Europe, which probably cost him the election.

No they weren't. There was very little about the EEC in the Tory manifesto. They'd just had enough of Harold Wilson.

[nauseus]

52 minutes ago, david555 said:

Just pointing that he a Conservative  dragged you in that bad undemocratic E.U.

A Conservative , oh maybe that time they where no divided in leavers and remainders ….only 1 group...gainers ...? And U.K. was  in need in bad times to be a member...?, now wanting it for free and no obligations , perfect deal ….I admit … if U.K. could achieve       

More gibberish.

[bangrak]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

So what? He was followed by another Tory (Major) then Blair and Brown (Labour).

...And a 'blank' between 1974 and 1990, is it? After Edward Heath (1970/74), no Wilson (1974/76)(L), Callaghan (1976/79)(L), ...Thatcher (1979/90)(C), before John Major (1990/97)(C)?  

[beautifulthailand99]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

Paul Brand (ITV) has tweeted that Nigels Farages Brexit Party will not stand again againgst Tory seats in a GE.

 

BREAKING: Nigel Farage confirms Brexit Party won’t stand against Conservative candidates in an election if Boris Johnson promises to leave the EU without a deal. “Of course we’ll put country before party.” Massively helps the Tory vote, while the opposition is divided @BBCr4today

Looks like I might win my 2k bet nearly 56 quid now in teflon baht from Malagateddy that we would have left the EU by 31st Oct  #winning

[bangrak]

7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

No they weren't. There was very little about the EEC in the Tory manifesto. They'd just had enough of Harold Wilson.

You're not teaching the UK's 20th century History nor Political Science, even to recent immigrants having to assimilate, may I hope!?

[david555]

(How to see when Boris lies ……... "only to see  when his lips are moving …"  )

 

The E.U. reply about Boris good negotiations lately..... non existing ,so far his good relations with E.U....….read

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/03/brussels-baffled-by-boris-johnsons-brexit-progress-claims

Brussels baffled by Boris Johnson's Brexit progress claims

PM says deal outline is nearly ready but EU says no backstop alternatives have been tabled

 

Brussels has responded with bafflement at Boris Johnson’s claims of progress in the Brexit talks, with EU officials warning that discussions are going nowhere.

The prime minister and his cabinet have insisted that the outlines of a deal are in the making and that attempts by MPs to rule out a no-deal exit will kill that positive momentum.

 

But officials said that more than two weeks after Johnson’s meeting with the German chancellor Angela Merkel, no alternatives to the backstop had been tabled and that there had instead been a renewed clash over Brussels’ need for an immediately legally operable solution for Ireland.

Edited September 3, 2019 by david555

[bangrak]

17 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You do not get it.

Contributions to the EU are less than 1% of income tax expenditure, hardly "plenty of extra money". To put it in perspective the EU contributions would pay about one tenth of the interest on the national debt.

Bojo has spent the contributions many times over, the only way you can pay the farmers is with increased taxation, but nobody will want that so the farmers and everyone else that was in receipt of funding will go without.

Add to it that the UK, thanks to an 'engagement period' deal negotiated by ... (was it Wilson), the EEC allowed the UK to pay only half of its normal contribution to the EEC, and, after that, Thatcher when PM, refused to pay what should have become the UK's, full, contribution  blackmailing(!!!) the EEC, with success, alas, making that till today, the UK has, never ever, paid the contribution it should have had, still only half of it! But betraying the given word, even when written on paper and duly undersigned, seems not to be an exception with 'Perfidious Albion'...

P.S.: Oh, and, mind you, do you happen to remember which country was pushing sooo hard to have Greece as a member of the EU...? Must have still been an inheritance from 'romantic' Greek freedom fighter Lord Byron...

[candide]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

And as for our NHS, how is the NHS in the rest of the Euro zone doing? Oh that's right, they don't have one. Good luck replacing the UK in the chart below. We'll have plenty of extra money for subsidizing OUR farmers instead of propping up the failing economies in Spain and Greece.

You forget the cost of activities carried out by the EU that are actually shared between members states. It is costly to make laws and regulations, to conduct investigations, to test products, medicine, to do impact studies, etc...

In case of hard Brexit, UK would have to bear alone the full cost of all these activities.

Edited September 3, 2019 by candide

[david555]

27 minutes ago, candide said:

You forget the cost of activities carried out by the EU that are actually shared between members states. It is costly to make laws and regulations, to conduct investigations, to test products, medicine, to do impact studies, etc...

In case of hard Brexit, UK would have to bear alone the full cost of all these activities.

And depending if they really go blow up the E.U/U.K. citizens agreement …… all those  U.K. pensioners in the E.U. have to pay themselves or go U.K. for medical  treatment at U.K. costs, those E.U. who have working or stay permit in U.K. have their own insurances by their job 

Edited September 3, 2019 by david555

[david555]

Follow live the running day events.....

https://news.sky.com/story/live-mps-prepare-to-launch-efforts-to-block-no-deal-brexit-11801143

LIVE: Conservative rebels push ahead with bid to block no-deal Brexit  Latest updates as MPs prepare for a dramatic parliamentary showdown over Brexit - with the PM threatening an election.

What will happen today?

Today's application for an emergency debate on a no-deal Brexit reveals MPs plan to use that debate to seize control of the Commons agenda from the government on Wednesday.

This is likely to be subject to a vote in the House of Commons between 9pm and 10pm.

They will then use this time to introduce legislation compelling the prime minister, if he fails to agree a withdrawal agreement with the EU, to seek a further delay to Brexit - by once again extending the Article 50 negotiating period - until 31 January 2020.

[zorrow424]

I would not read too much in the vote later,fact is its a wicked Boris plot.  He wants to lose,really he does,so he can identify the remainder MPs,sack them,install his own choosing and call election on 14 th Oct  so guaranteeing a Conservative win   and more importantly A NO Deal Brexit      was always going to the wire  but Boris will succeed